Pimax Crystal Super

[Varibraun]

Pre-Production model from CES 2025 - The good/bad/ugly: 

 

 

[Varibraun]

Another CES 2025 review from  a very experienced VR Sim user ("Tally Mouse" who has done a number of VR tutorial videos over the past few years).  He traveled to CES to focus exclusively on the Pimax Super and, after a couple of days with the 4 pre-production models there, he provides more detail and I think came away with a generally more positive impression. 

 

I linked the video to begin where he actually starts talking about the Super (in the first 3 minutes he explains why he personally thinks a future Pimax 12K is probably overkill in terms of FoV and Resolution): 

 

 

[Aapje]

Not really all that impressed by the review. He just accepts that eye tracking is turned off because it doesn't work right, and trusts Pimax to fix it in time. And he explains that normal people don't see issues with the visuals like he does, so he should just leave out the issues that he sees from his review. Rather arrogant and it doesn't match up with the fact that a lot of 'normal' people do seem to notice those issues.

[Varibraun]

58 minutes ago, Aapje said:

Not really all that impressed by the review. He just accepts that eye tracking is turned off because it doesn't work right, and trusts Pimax to fix it in time. And he explains that normal people don't see issues with the visuals like he does, so he should just leave out the issues that he sees from his review. Rather arrogant and it doesn't match up with the fact that a lot of 'normal' people do seem to notice those issues.

 

Yes, I understand what you are saying.  But I did think this was the most comprehensive look anyone has taken on the Super so far, so I thought it was worth including as early info for this thread.  Since it seems fairly clear that the Super really wasn't ready for a public debut, we really aren't going to know anything until they start shipping for full reviews (which I seriously doubt is going to happen in late January as planned). 

 

Also, regarding the "normal" users, I do think there is some validity beyond arrogance in his point.  I think a lot of PCVR users still view the Reverb as one of the best headsets produced to date.  However, if you look back, you will see that there was a lot of angst about whether mura was a deal killer when it first came out.  Ultimately, many of us didn't even notice it (which is not to say it others didn't have a real problem with it, and it also didn't carry the price tag of a Super).  Bottom line though, I agree with you that I don't think it should be left out of a good faith review.

[Aapje]

A large part of the video was just regurgitating PR material or justifying himself, rather than giving any useful info. I thought that there was more useful hands-on info in the (later) MRTV video.

 

But ultimately, reviews of the final or 'final' product are more useful anyway.

[Panzerlang]

On 1/18/2025 at 6:01 AM, Aapje said:

A large part of the video was just regurgitating PR material or justifying himself, rather than giving any useful info. I thought that there was more useful hands-on info in the (later) MRTV video.

 

But ultimately, reviews of the final or 'final' product are more useful anyway.

I thought it was very useful to hear him describing how physically dialling in the head-fit seemed to eradicate all the issues outlined by MRTV (who made no such description). Most specifically, getting the eye-to-lens distance right per individual.

Edited January 18 by Panzerlang

[DBCOOPER011]

On 1/17/2025 at 1:01 PM, Aapje said:

A large part of the video was just regurgitating PR material or justifying himself, rather than giving any useful info. I thought that there was more useful hands-on info in the (later) MRTV video.

 

But ultimately, reviews of the final or 'final' product are more useful anyway.

 

I agree. Lots of claims in the Pimax discord that he is a compensated shill for Pimax, may or may not be true. Either way, the mura/vertical lines indicated for the super are concerning. The independent reviews are what I will rely on before I cancel this order...

[BOO]

8 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

 

I agree. Lots of claims in the Pimax discord that he is a compensated shill for Pimax, may or may not be true. Either way, the mura/vertical lines indicated for the super are concerning. The independent reviews are what I will rely on before I cancel this order...

 

Definately. Ensure you watch the entire review series from Flight Sim Guy (the one where its the greatest thing yet, the one where it isnt, the one where the lenes dont compare to the Q3 and the one where he starts off taking about it but ends up waffling on about the Somnium or Varjo). 

 

You'll be in a much more informed place after that. 🙂 

[DBCOOPER011]

Now they are delayed, which is a good thing if their product is crap. But, they were suppose to ship out this month and I dont like being a no interest loan. This is turning out like the Somnium..

 

https://pimax.com/blogs/blogs/progress-update-january-20

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

Now they are delayed, which is a good thing if their product is crap. But, they were suppose to ship out this month and I dont like being a no interest loan. This is turning out like the Somnium..

 

https://pimax.com/blogs/blogs/progress-update-january-20

The scheme works so there's nothing to fix🤣

[Panzerlang]

4 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

Now they are delayed, which is a good thing if their product is crap. But, they were suppose to ship out this month and I dont like being a no interest loan. This is turning out like the Somnium..

 

https://pimax.com/blogs/blogs/progress-update-january-20

So it's gone from "January" to "Q1". How very Pimax. 
 

 

[Aapje]

It would be surprising if the product was done on time.

[Varibraun]

5 hours ago, Aapje said:

It would be surprising if the product was done on time.

 

Yep...my bet has always been June based on past performance.  The OG Crystal was originally announced for a limited release in Q4 2022 (see below) and I believe actually starting shipping in 5/23.  We shall see how this compares, but hopefully it will be a better headset/software match in a few months than it was at the CES demo.

 

[DBCOOPER011]

On 1/20/2025 at 12:51 PM, Dagwoodyt said:

The scheme works so there's nothing to fix🤣

 

Yea, canceled the preorder and will wait until the actual reviews come out for it. Also, will probably hold off on the 5090 since the reviews that came out today dont indicate a substantial increase for VR. The OG crystal/4090 is working rather well for me at the moment...

[Charlo-VR]

Tested only on non flight sims and a Quest 3, but interesting comments towards the end, starting at about 25:40. The nearly 80% increase in memory bandwidth may be quite helpful with VR headsets like the Pimax Crystal and Crystal Light, Varjo Aero, and upcoming high res headsets like the Crystal Super.

 

I rather doubt a 5090 and a higher-res. headset than my Crystal Light on a 4090 and a 13700k will be visually noticeable in IL-2 GB, since I think this engine is already looking as detailed as it can in my rig.

[Varibraun]

From Pimax to Crystal Super Preorder customers:

 

You've ordered the Crystal Super. Here we'd like to update you on the latest status, including a new shipping estimate. Here's how it stands: Crystal Super Beta test now underway The Crystal Super has been tested by hundreds of visitors at CES 2025, and now the external beta test is in an advanced stage. The beta test is extremely useful for us, as these users all have different GPUs and systems, different use cases, and well, different headshapes. Also, at home, they have much more time to test the Crystal Super in long sessions — compared to visitors at CES. Lastly, these users have also agreed to provide detailed feedback reports on all aspects of the headset. As such, we've gathered lots of useful feedback already. We're happy that their feedback approves of our approach with the Super; to create a high-end PCVR headset with incredible clarity at 29 million pixels. The feedback on the clarity and brightness is all that this is top class. That said, we did see many visitors at CES as well as the beta testers ask about the 50 PPD QLED version. Many feel the 57 PPD QLED version's clarity can satisfy their demands (and probably go beyond that), and would prefer to use that resolution over a slightly wider field of view. We have increased the priority of the 50 PPD version. We're testing this version internally now and are very satisfied with the clarity across the whole lens, as previous distortions are eked out. We're now readying our factories to produce these batches first. This also gives us more time to finetune and get rid of the edge distortions of the 57 PPD version. At the same time, we are still making some minor adjustments on the ergonomics. This will help all versions of the Crystal Super (the 57 PPD QLED, 50 PPD QLED, and the micro-OLED), by increasing the comfort by all headshapes as well as stability under movement. We will come back with a full list of improvements we're making to the headset, and explain why — and also provide a clearer timeframe for shipping these orders.For now, we're working hard to make this the most incredible VR headset the world has ever seen. Please hang on. (If you want to change your pre-order from the 50 PPD version to 57 PPD or vice versa, simply contact our customer support with your order or reservation number.)

For customers in the United States Earlier this month, the United States government announced a 10% tariff for goods manufactured in China. We are always focused on providing high-end VR headsets for the lowest price, and are doing our best to mitigate the impact of this decision. The new tariffs also impact the Crystal Super for customers in the United States. However, taking in mind the slightly delayed shipping, Pimax has decided to take on the costs of this for all purchases made before February 4th (when the announcement was made) — also as a way to thank our supporters, and to make sure pre-ordering is always beneficial.

RTX 5090 compatability Some users were concerned about the Super's compatability with Nvidia's latest GPUs, but we can confirm that the Super is fully compatible with the Nvidia RTX5090 card, as tested in our beta test. Early VR benchmarks look incredibly promising for high-end PCVR.

[Panzerlang]

I've not had that email.

My order: Pimax-Crystal-Super-HMD × 1
50PPD QLED・135FOV

So, "end of March", means we might get it by July? Lol.

[Varibraun]

14 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

I've not had that email.

My order: Pimax-Crystal-Super-HMD × 1
50PPD QLED・135FOV

 

Interesting...since I have the 57PPD preordered, I wonder if they are trying to steer more preorders to the 50PPD which now seems to be ahead in production?

 

14 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

So, "end of March", means we might get it by July? Lol.

 

Exactly!

[Varibraun]

On 2/18/2025 at 6:20 PM, Panzerlang said:

My order: Pimax-Crystal-Super-HMD × 1
50PPD QLED・135FOV

 

I am now thinking about switching to this one too now that it is ahead of the 57PPD in production.  He makes some good points about this at around 2:00 below (which is obviously what you were already thinking when you preordered):

 

 

 

[Panzerlang]

Spotted and watched that about half an hour ago. Indeed, as he says, who's going to notice 7ppd less as opposed to 15+ degrees of horizontal FOV? I have every intention of downscaling mine to OG Crystal level as a) I'm not sure the game can render better quality beyond a certain point, b) OG Crystal already looks superb and my 4090 can just about handle it and c) all I want is the better FOV anyway.

[Varibraun]

Supposed to start shipping in April:

 

 

[c19580]

What would yield better results, a PCL with high settings at max resolution, or a PCS at lowered settings and resolution?

 

Trying to understand if this upgrade would

make sense for me (4090 / 13900k)

[chiliwili69]

9 hours ago, c19580 said:

What would yield better results, a PCL with high settings at max resolution, or a PCS at lowered settings and resolution?

 

This is a good question. Since the IL-2 has not the Dynamic Foveated Rendering it can not use the eye-tracking of the PCS. So both devices will be simply limited by the raw power of the GPU, which is the total number of pixels rendered per second.

 

We already know the internal supersampling needed by the PCL, that is 2.65 times the pixels of the panel:

Panel is 2880x2880x2=16.6 Million pixels, 

Default resolution (100%SS) is 4312x5100x2=44 Million pixels

So, even using the lowest PCL frequency (72Hz) you need to render 3.17 millions of millions of pixels per second (Gpix/s).

 

In IL-2 a 4090 card can achieve about 1.6-1.8 Gpix/s.

In IL-2 a 5090 card can achieve about 2.2-2.4 Gpix/s.

 

We still don´t know the internal supersampling needed by the PCS, but I believe it is the same type of lenses used by the PCL, so I am afraid we will also need a big factor.

 

For me, the most important item of a VR device is exactly that number (ie that 2.65). Which telling you how much GPU power are you wasting to produce the image.

 

So, I believe that until we have DFR in IL-2 we could not really benefit from that nice resolution of the PCS.

 

 

[c19580]

4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

This is a good question. Since the IL-2 has not the Dynamic Foveated Rendering it can not use the eye-tracking of the PCS. So both devices will be simply limited by the raw power of the GPU, which is the total number of pixels rendered per second.

 

We already know the internal supersampling needed by the PCL, that is 2.65 times the pixels of the panel:

Panel is 2880x2880x2=16.6 Million pixels, 

Default resolution (100%SS) is 4312x5100x2=44 Million pixels

So, even using the lowest PCL frequency (72Hz) you need to render 3.17 millions of millions of pixels per second (Gpix/s).

 

In IL-2 a 4090 card can achieve about 1.6-1.8 Gpix/s.

In IL-2 a 5090 card can achieve about 2.2-2.4 Gpix/s.

 

We still don´t know the internal supersampling needed by the PCS, but I believe it is the same type of lenses used by the PCL, so I am afraid we will also need a big factor.

 

For me, the most important item of a VR device is exactly that number (ie that 2.65). Which telling you how much GPU power are you wasting to produce the image.

 

So, I believe that until we have DFR in IL-2 we could not really benefit from that nice resolution of the PCS.

 

 

thanks Chilli, understanding how this works is very useful!

 

there’s one thing I don’t understand, though… if a 4090 can only achieve 1.6-1.8, then how am I able to play the game at 72 hz at 1.0 max resolution in PimaxPlay (believe that means 100%)? Wouldn’t I need to downgrade the settings to match that 1.6-1.8 capability to get a stable gameplay experience?

[chiliwili69]

2 hours ago, c19580 said:

there’s one thing I don’t understand, though… if a 4090 can only achieve 1.6-1.8, then how am I able to play the game at 72 hz at 1.0 max resolution in PimaxPlay (believe that means 100%)? Wouldn’t I need to downgrade the settings to match that 1.6-1.8 capability to get a stable gameplay experience?

 

The numbers of the Crystal Light (or original Crystal as well) are summarized in this table. I made it when I had the PCL (currently just Quest3).

 

They can be found in this link in the "SS per device" sheet, you will also find any other known VR device:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gJmnz_nVxI6_dG_UYNCCpZVK2-f8NBy-y1gia77Hu_k

 

So, when you say you are able to play the game at 72Hz using 1.0 max resolution in Pimax Play, what numbers appear in SteamVR?

Are you able to achieve stable 72 fps?

Are you using any FFR technique like Quadviews?

[[CPT]Crunch]

18 hours ago, c19580 said:

What would yield better results, a PCL with high settings at max resolution, or a PCS at lowered settings and resolution?

 

Trying to understand if this upgrade would

make sense for me (4090 / 13900k)

The bigger issue is usable degrees of field of view, in that arena the super should win hands down having both high resolution and the superior FOV.  An extra 30 degrees is nothing to sneeze at and super useful in flight simulation.  Now whether it's worth that bang for the buck in an upgrade from a PCL is another issue.

 

I want to see what Korea brings to the table first, because Great Battles has long reached its visual limits in VR, no matter how much you sink into VR this game will never look any better than it does now in even a lower end HMD, it's long past peak.   You'll get better results with comparisons in a higher end games like DCS.

[dgiatr]

1 hour ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

 

I want to see what Korea brings to the table first, because Great Battles has long reached its visual limits in VR, no matter how much you sink into VR this game will never look any better than it does now in even a lower end HMD, it's long past peak.   You'll get better results with comparisons in a higher end games like DCS.

I would prefer for il2 gb to solve the known issue with cpu overloaded core when multiple AI units happen to be found at the same area...than talking about super VR resolutions plus DFR or FFR or RRR...

[c19580]

6 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

So, when you say you are able to play the game at 72Hz using 1.0 max resolution in Pimax Play, what numbers appear in SteamVR?

Are you able to achieve stable 72 fps?

Are you using any FFR technique like Quadviews?

I use OpenComposite and OpenXR within PimaxPlay, so not sure what SteamVR would show.

 

however, I thought that a high quality setting of 1.0 in PimaxPlay would equate to max resolution.

 

I am able to achieve stable 72 fps with most settings at max (except clouds / shadows) and semi-stable at 90 fps, although I exclusively play multiplayer. Not sure what the performance experience would be with single player AI overhead in a busy environment.

4 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

The bigger issue is usable degrees of field of view, in that arena the super should win hands down having both high resolution and the superior FOV.  An extra 30 degrees is nothing to sneeze at and super useful in flight simulation.  Now whether it's worth that bang for the buck in an upgrade from a PCL is another issue.

 

I want to see what Korea brings to the table first, because Great Battles has long reached its visual limits in VR, no matter how much you sink into VR this game will never look any better than it does now in even a lower end HMD, it's long past peak.   You'll get better results with comparisons in a higher end games like DCS.

great point! More FOV and hopefully, better stereo overlap does sounds like good upgrades.

[Panzerlang]

13 hours ago, c19580 said:

 

great point! More FOV and hopefully, better stereo overlap does sounds like good upgrades.

Going by the recent reviews so far, Pimax lied through their teeth about the overlap. A claimed 105 degrees, MRTV says it's around 85 degrees.

I'm absolutely baffled why they do it to themselves. Another wilfully self-inflicted wound in their reputation.

[Aapje]

20 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

Going by the recent reviews so far, Pimax lied through their teeth about the overlap. A claimed 105 degrees, MRTV says it's around 85 degrees.

 

You need to keep in mind that binocular overlap and FOV differ by person, based on your IPD and distance to the lenses. The MRTV guy has very close set eyes, so he is going to have a below-average binocular overlap. There is a reason why he complained about it, and his pal didn't have any issues with it.

 

I'm Dutch, so I'm used to bluntness, but for my taste, MRTV was too harsh in his comments. Because people's physiognomy and vision can differ so much, a headset that doesn't work at all for one person, can be great for another, and vice versa.

 

Because of this, I think that what you should want from reviewers is not very strident opinions about subjective perceptions, but rather, comparisons showing the strengths and weaknesses of each headset. Then an informed consumer can in turn make judgments like: I was fine with the binocular overlap of the Quest 3/Crystal, and this is not any worse, so it should work for me.

Edited April 2 by Aapje

[Dagwoodyt]

None of these considerations are worth debating if Pimax QC hasn't improved, so for me it's still a waiting game. Then too, do I really want Pimax software on my pc?

[chiliwili69]

19 hours ago, c19580 said:

I use OpenComposite and OpenXR within PimaxPlay, so not sure what SteamVR would show.

 

however, I thought that a high quality setting of 1.0 in PimaxPlay would equate to max resolution.

 

I am able to achieve stable 72 fps with most settings at max (except clouds / shadows) and semi-stable at 90 fps, although I exclusively play multiplayer. Not sure what the performance experience would be with single player AI overhead in a busy environment

 

OK, I see, I think there is no way to know the rendered resolution in PimaxPlay, but using 1.0 it should be 4312x5100 which is 44 million of pixels.

 

I assume you don´t use FFR techniques since I think they don´t work on IL-2 and Smart Smoothing if Off as well:

 

You performance with the 4090 and the Crystal is aligned with the @DBCOOPER011 values, that were 10-12 ms frametimes:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/88156-pimax-crystal-light/page/8/#findComment-1339902

 

It means that having frametimes at 12ms a 4090 is able to render 3.6 Gpixels/second (44MPx*1000/12). This is too much even for a 4090. I need to understand this huge processing power of the 4090. I thought that the 4090 had a rendering performance of 1.6-1.8 Gpix/s

 

It doesn´t matter if it is SP or MP, the AI planes only afects the CPU, not the GPU.

[Panzerlang]

11 hours ago, Aapje said:

 

You need to keep in mind that binocular overlap and FOV differ person, based on your IPD and distance to the lenses. The MRTV guy has very close set eyes, so he is going to have a below-average binocular overlap. There is a reason why he complained about it, and his pal didn't have any issues with it.

 

I'm Dutch, so I'm used to bluntness, but for my taste, MRTV was too harsh in his comments. Because people's physiognomy and vision can differ so much, a headset that doesn't work at all for one person, can be great for another, and vice versa.

 

Because of this, I think that what you should want from reviewers is not very strident opinions about subjective perceptions, but rather, comparisons showing the strengths and weaknesses of each headset. Then an informed consumer can in turn make judgments like: I was fine with the binocular overlap of the Quest 3/Crystal, and this is not any worse, so it should work for me.

Good point but I've watched a few testers testing the FOV and so far none have reported horizontal exceeding 124 degrees. Given that Pimax claim 135 degrees, I extrapolate that they've significantly over-claimed on overlap too. They probably had hundreds of people wear the goggles until they found the one weirdly shaped head that got 135 horizontal and a 105 overlap. Lol.

[Dagwoodyt]

For all high tier headsets seems like import duties for U.S. customers could be substantial. 🤔

[CAG_Sanders]

Just so it's noted in here Pimax has clarified their fov claims. Regular is about 127 and 138 with the "lab" mode and overlap is 105 on the 127 and 90 on the "lab" mode. They stated the lab mode runs well, but they seem to have some hesitation to just make it through standard mode so it will be interesting what reviews are.

 

MRTV also measured his overlap and it was pretty much what Pimax claimed and he then stated he wasn't talking about overlap degrees but overlap percentage and that he thinks it's still bad. MRTV typically has an agenda so I always take his position with a grain of salt until you get actual tested numbers form multiple sources. 

 

I should get my super in the first batch so excited to see how it feels. 

[TWHYata_PL]

so the "lab mode is something in PimaxPlay or just another HW revision?

[Varibraun]

On 4/6/2025 at 10:11 PM, CAG_Sanders said:

I should get my super in the first batch so excited to see how it feels. 

 

Did you get a shipping confirmation?  Just saw this posted on Pimax Discord and it seems that the latest tariff salvos are about to wreak havoc on US preorders:

 

 

[CAG_Sanders]

I did, but we will have to see what they end up saying in the tariffs. Mine is estimated to arrive on the 15th.

[firdimigdi]

Somehow I get the feeling that procurring a newly released high-end HMD will slip down a tad on the list of immediate priorities in the near future.

[[CPT]Crunch]

Could probably book a flight to Hong Kong and bring one back cheaper if they created a pick up point with stock.  Pretty sure they haven't changed the travelers customs duty rates, yet.  At least you could slip in a couple of good noodle bowls and see a few sights instead of forking it all over to the tax man.