Why you are still not in VR? (Jan-2025)

[chiliwili69]

 

After 5 years I wanted to know what the IL-2 players think about it.

Choose just one answer that fits better for you

 

Similar poll in Jan-2020

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/57455-why-you-are-still-not-in-vr-in-2020/

 

Similar poll in Jan-2018

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/33300-why-you-are-still-not-in-vr/

 

[dryheat94]

"Prefer TrackIR" might be a good option to add to the poll?

[Gambit21]

I can't accurately take part given how the pole works.

 

Money, not worth the cost to me. I need to be able to see around me, see another monitor while building missions/looking at reference and/or sound editing.

Just doesn't work for me. TrackIR works for me. 

[WheelwrightPL]

Poor image resolution is the main reason I stay away (roughly speaking 4k on monitor equals 1k in VR, because of how close VR lenses are to your eyes). This means the system would have to render 16k TWICE in VR (once for each eye) to have image as crisp as the one displayed on a 4k-monitor. This kind of huge processing power may be possible to achieve in 30-40 years at best. In the meantime foveated rendering seems the only feasible solution, so I am keeping an eye on any developments in this area.

[CAG_Sanders]

4 hours ago, WheelwrightPL said:

Poor image resolution is the main reason I stay away (roughly speaking 4k on monitor equals 1k in VR, because of how close VR lenses are to your eyes). This means the system would have to render 16k TWICE in VR (once for each eye) to have image as crisp as the one displayed on a 4k-monitor. This kind of huge processing power may be possible to achieve in 30-40 years at best. In the meantime foveated rendering seems the only feasible solution, so I am keeping an eye on any developments in this area.

VR in IL2 looks really good if you have a high-end system and high resolution headset. 

[BOO]

Other - for me VR just replaces one flawed attempt at creating an immersive experience with another, considerably more expensive one. 

[Zooropa_Fly]

I don't want to spend the money - I'd need a PC upgrade as well as the goggles.

 

But my bigger reason is that I just wouldn't allow myself to be cut off from the outside world.

[Trooper117]

Not a chance I'll get VR... I've used TrackIR for many years and I've no problems continuing that method.

It's too expensive, plus I want to be able to see and access the keyboard.

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 I want to be able to see and access the keyboard.

I had this concern also before getting VR. But luckily I am able to easily see the keyboard without moving the headset by peeking through the small opening around the nose area.  I just have to lean my head back a little bit. Maybe I have a relatively small nose?  This on my Reverb G2 and Quest 2.  Havent tried any others yet.

[Vishnu]

VR is the only way to go.   I'll never go back.  Period.

[unlikely_spider]

6 hours ago, MAJORgoonMADLOU said:

I had this concern also before getting VR. But luckily I am able to easily see the keyboard without moving the headset by peeking through the small opening around the nose area.  I just have to lean my head back a little bit. Maybe I have a relatively small nose?  This on my Reverb G2 and Quest 2.  Havent tried any others yet.

With the little nubs on the F and J keys, and the 5 key on the number pad, I don't feel that I'm hindered as I just feel for those and I know where my hands are.

 

Combined with the fact that I intentionally get only full-size keyboards that have separation between the arrow keys and everything else, and also the number pad on the right side. The nubs are there for this reason.

[ST_Catchov]

11 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Not a chance I'll get VR... I've used TrackIR for many years and I've no problems continuing that method.

It's too expensive, plus I want to be able to see and access the keyboard.

 

True. Not only see the k/b but see anything of the real world. In VR, one is ensconced in a bubble, deaf and blind to real events. In this unsafe world, a burglar could break in and bop you on the head and kidnap the missus, after casing the joint to establish your flight times.

 

I wanna know exactly what's going on especially the missus. Trackir all the way.

[czech693]

TrackIR to UTC, to Delan Clip (wired), to Delan Fusion (wireless).  One must be able to locate one's beverage.  (Tried VR but ended up giving it to my two youngest grandsons.) 

[BladeMeister]

I have used TIR since the very first iteration. I own TIR5 currently. I looked into VR and:

# 1. It is to expensive for any VR headset with a high enough resolution that I would even consider worth a try.

2. It does not support a resolution that I can get on my monitor. To low of a resolution. I LOVE eye candy.

3. There is to much fiddling with to much software. I am at the age wear I don't want anymore testing and adjusting than I currently do in Sim and with new Hardware. I love fiddling with my new Rig and trying to get the best performance from my 2D Rig and monitor. I have watched to many vids and read enough reviews of people much more into Simming than I am, and I am pretty heavily into CFSs since the late 90s, that in the end say it is more bother than it is worth and I believe it.

4. I would rather invest the money in my Rig to keep it current with what is needed for fluidity in my Combat Flight Simming. Fluidity in game is what I find most important.

5. I don't like the attitude that many VR users have. A. If you don't have VR there is something wrong with you.

                                                                                      B. That VR users think they are the majority of Combat Flight Simmers and if a CFS doesn't support it, VR users opinions are that that sim will fail.

 

Sorry, it is just is not for me. Have fun with VR but remember that VR users are no where near the majority of Combat Flight Simmers. Far less than 10% from what I have read on quite a few articles.

 

S!Blade<><

 

 

[Drum]

 

The Cristal Light has passthrough cameras that look like you're looking through IR goggles, so anything lit shows very well.  The screen's full of static, but a keyboard with lit keys shows up easily, I can read my phone well for instance or see anything (anyone) in the room at a glance, too.  Very simple to use, just tap the side of the HMD for on, and again for off.

 

Edited January 2 by Drum

[I./JG68_Sperber]

I've been flying in VR since the HTC Vive 1 and Rift 1. I would never play a flight simulator with the monitor again. I wouldn't buy the simulation without VR support. Likewise, all simulators where you sit are perfect for VR. Try flying the MFS 2024 in VR and then on the monitor That way you always have the perfect comparison. You can easily switch back and forth with a key combination. It just looks boring on the monitor, even if it's in 4K.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 hour ago, I./JG68_Sperber said:

I've been flying in VR since the HTC Vive 1 and Rift 1. I would never play a flight simulator with the monitor again. I wouldn't buy the simulation without VR support. Likewise, all simulators where you sit are perfect for VR. Try flying the MFS 2024 in VR and then on the monitor That way you always have the perfect comparison. You can easily switch back and forth with a key combination. It just looks boring on the monitor, even if it's in 4K.

I have Q3 and had  few other brands before but I still prefer flying in 2D.

[I./JG68_Sperber]

Fortunately, we are all different.😉

[ST_Catchov]

Yes, we're all individuals.

[CAG_Sanders]

Other than people who physically can't handle VR, the answer is always money. If everyone could experience VR with the best headsets and best computes that can run those headsets, there wouldn't be anyone who would prefer flat screen. Yes there probably would be cause people are weird, but one feels like flying and one feels like playing a game. The limitation for the vast majority of 2D players is money. 

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

And money is the only thing keeping me from getting a motion simulator to augment my VR.  That would would be the ultimate.  But in my case, maybe not having a motion sim to go along with my VR is a good thing.  With the two of them, my wife would probably never hear from me again.  I would be forever hooked up to those gadgets in the land of make-believe!

[CAG_Sanders]

I should have clarified that I didn't mean money to be demeaning. Just that not everyone has the desire or means to get the proper setup that would make it 100% worth flying in VR for every. 

[Charlo-VR]

I have a buddy who I got into RoF and later into IL-2 GB, and I periodically help him upgrade his computer.
 

As I have moved from TrackIr to the Oculus Quest 2 to the Reverb G2 to the Pimax Crystal Light, I always offer to help him move from TrackIr into VR, using my old VR headset. He has tried out my VR setup which includes a Next Level Racing Motion Platform V3, a Buttkicker, and an HF8 haptic pad.
 

But he has a son and wife who he likes to remain immediately available to, so he’s unwilling to switch to VR, even though I would make the transition fairly painless from my own experience dialing in VR.

 

(I, on the other hand, have become somewhat addicted to the experience of VR and haptic sound pads and a “butt mover” to simulate enough motion to be quite convincing. The size of my gaming space limits the size of any motion rig, so I patiently await the Yaw 2 (now Yaw 3) I pledged as backer #619 during the early part of the pandemic 😛)

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

8 hours ago, I./JG3_Col_Sanders said:

Other than people who physically can't handle VR, the answer is always money. If everyone could experience VR with the best headsets and best computes that can run those headsets, there wouldn't be anyone who would prefer flat screen. Yes there probably would be cause people are weird, but one feels like flying and one feels like playing a game. The limitation for the vast majority of 2D players is money. 

Not true, I enjoyed playing HL Alyx, Lone echo , Red matter etc and didn't complaining about performance. I have strong PC. For example I don't like how plane felt in il2 , it's like flaying a toy plane, the lack of vibration , flexing etc. They don't use any smoke and mirrors technology to mask the rigid  body limitations.

[CAG_Sanders]

1 minute ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Not true, I enjoyed playing HL Alyx, Lone echo , Red matter etc and didn't complaining about performance. I have strong PC. For example I don't like how plane felt in il2 , it's like flaying a toy plane, the lack of vibration , flexing etc. They don't use any smoke and mirrors technology to mask the rigid  body limitations.

I would be intrigued what headset you were using. And how is the flight model any different in 2d this being acceptable when not in VR?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Just now, I./JG3_Col_Sanders said:

I would be intrigued what headset you were using. And how is the flight model any different in 2d this being acceptable when not in VR?

FM is the same, it about plane perception for example in 2D you can turn on camera shake which simulate plane vibration, but doesn't work in VR. 

I was using Odyssey+, Reverb G2 and now I have Quest 3. 

[CAG_Sanders]

So solution is money, buy a haptic seat pad and ffb stick and problem solved for you. Interesting that a camera shake makes that much of a difference for you, but to each their own. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

4 minutes ago, I./JG3_Col_Sanders said:

So solution is money, buy a haptic seat pad and ffb stick and problem solved for you. Interesting that a camera shake makes that much of a difference for you, but to each their own. 

I do have FF stick. Money is not a solution. With haptic seat or not I still would prefer flaying in 2D. I do like to race a car  in VR same as in 2D or play space combat sims.

[CAG_Sanders]

So the issue you have is no camera shake but you are getting all the feedback you need from your stick? Which is arguably much more immersive. Very very interesting, you do you. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

14 minutes ago, I./JG3_Col_Sanders said:

So the issue you have is no camera shake but you are getting all the feedback you need from your stick? Which is arguably much more immersive. Very very interesting, you do you. 

Camera shake is not an issue it's a 2D effect added to the game which doesn't simulate those effects on the  model itself. The FF is not that important for me , I'm flying more without it currently.

It's the feeling of flaying a toy made from concrete, not a real plane in VR. Besides that I like better clarity of the monitor, color reproduction, HDR, blacks levels and high refresh rates. The freedom of my head and ergonomics , giving that up for VR  what I have in return a flaying brick... No thanks.

Give me a game that can simulate those effects , I might change my mind and would like 2d and VR in the same way 

https://youtu.be/ZmI9Q07uMPc?si=cx29jbha1nJY_7HR

Edited January 3 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

[jollyjack]

On 1/1/2025 at 12:53 PM, Zooropa_Fly said:

But my bigger reason is that I just wouldn't allow myself to be cut off from the outside world.

 

LoL, you're already are using a flight sim. For me i must get me a sim to walk around with a virtual dog to complete this idiocy ..

Edited January 3 by jollyjack

[Hanu]

I tried Vive initially and I bought Reverb G2, which M$ killed away. The feeling was quite good and deflection shooting was definitely more natural, but some points I personally felt negative:

 

1) The vision was way too limited, checking six was problematic (Pimax FOV could surely help with this)

2) Could not use external tools (wind calculator for bombing, manage server, clock, etc)

3) resolution was just ok'ish, peripheral vision was bad, even nonexistent (look 1 above )

4) working with displays was infuriating; if you could just select the mask as a display when you wish, but you had to run several programs on top of it with all sorts of lobbies.

5) perspiration inside the mask, weight, worse headphones

6) capturing videos with shadowplay stopped. At least I could not figure out anymore how I could capture something that would look good later on flat display

7) had no idea what happened outside my mask

 

Nothing absolutically bad, sure, but in the end I noted that I spend much more time with fighting the problems than with TrackIR, and eventually started to fly much less overall. I gave those to my buddy and flying was fun again.

 

Sadly the same buddy of mine has not flown too much any more since the initial inspiration with my old VR... 🙁. Dunno why, but I have my doubts.

Edited January 3 by Hanu

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

In my squad 5 persons do have VR headsets but only 2 are flying exclusively in VR. 

[I./JG68_Sperber]

@Hanu...

There are solutions for most of the things you listed. This head strip for the Q3, for example,

ensures that you are not crushed or locked in. The headset floats freely in front of my eyes without pressing. I partially removed the face pad so that I can fully use my keyboard while looking down. It doesn't matter at all that a little light comes in... The closer the headset is to the eyes, the larger the FOV. I can check my six very well....

[Hanu]

Thanks, Sure there are lot of solutions. Some of them could even be combined.

[Avimimus]

Reasons:

- Cost of the device

- Cost of the hardware to support the device

- Preferring higher resolutions (possibly with conventional screens).

- Sweatiness of the generation of devices I've tried in stores.

- The fact that the technology is still young (market growing, equipment still being rapidly made obsolete).

[Flashy]

19 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

Yes, we're all individuals.

 

Back on Topic:

1.) No idea which headset to actually buy - so many conflicting reports about the pros and cons of every set.. but I honestly have no idea which one is great for Il-2 without costing a fortune

2.) The cost of the headset + a PC upgrade to run it is prohibitive.. as in more than a months salary.. difficult to justify

 

thats pretty much it.. would be keen to try it otherwise

 

Edited January 3 by Flashy

[Gambit21]

On 1/1/2025 at 3:53 AM, Zooropa_Fly said:

But my bigger reason is that I just wouldn't allow myself to be cut off from the outside world.

 

Would be a nightmare for me...as often as my wife walks in with another story while I'm working/creating missions, test flying etc.

[=LD=Bulldog*]

Been a Track IR user for years. Then got the Reverb G2 and Pico 4. Sent them back. So many issues and I miss seeing my keys as well as 4K eyeball candy.

 

My squad mates love their Crystal Light and I am tempted. Like another pilot, two of us are widescreen flatsreen users. Also helps if you want to open a can of beer in flight. As for spotting...

 

I could get the Crystal Light and expect to be frustrated. Or get a Fjällräven parka coat when it is cold, which is of more use.

 

The parka is barking to me.

 

BD