Discussion of Team Fusion Release post

[Buzzsaw]

Hello All

 

Anyone wishing to comment on the post in the update section regarding 'Team Fusion Release', please post here.

 

Please note, although we are certainly open to your input, we will not tolerate simple abuse or comments which call for the end of our team or our project.

 

Team Fusion members are working very hard to bring the community our work and continue the improvement of the CLIFFS game engine as well as the content available.

 

Thanks for your patience.  👋

[Mistralfred901]

Many thanks to the Team Fusion Simulations for continuing to improve this great simulator and adding new content!

 

I can't wait to see your work!
 

[Hiuuz]

For me FoF will be an instant buy, no matter when it comes! I just hope more regular updates about the state of the products. I know nobody like showing "family laundry" to the neighbors, but loosing a key dev member surely kicks back the developement, we don't see such things happening from outside, and while apparently nothing happens we just speculating. I wish for TFS all the best!

[AWC]

We understand the community's thoughts about this information. We ask you to keep things civil. Some key members were taken by a flight sim competitor which greatly affected our work and threw any release schedule into disarray.

[Mysticpuma]

Embarrassing!

The community began to disbelieve the release would happen in 2024, especially with your silence and ignoring requests for any updates.

Now you say that new members are learning to model? Are you realistically expecting us to believe they can create all the announced content with no starting knowledge? It takes years to model efficiently.

 

The final nail in the coffin is the lack of any information on the current state of the following:

 

New Aircraft

Focke-Wulf 190A-1

Focke-Wulf 190A-2

Focke-Wulf 190A-3

Messerschmitt Bf-109G-2

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-1

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-2

Junkers Ju-88C-6

Junkers Ju-88A-4

Spitfire Mk VC

Spitfire Mk VC 'Clipped Wing'

Spitfire Mk IXA

P-51A-83

P-51A-91

B-17E

Wellington III

Beaufighter VIC

Typhoon Mk IA

Typhoon Mk IB

 

As it stands we are no further forward than the brief few WiP images shared before and that's it.

So what have 18 months of work produced, because of there is nothing different to show, we have to expect another 2-years at least.

 

Sadly, your post just makes this feel finally dead.

 

RIP CloD. Just imaging what could have been.

 

3 minutes ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

We understand the community's thoughts about this information. We ask you to keep things civil. Some key members were taken by a flight sim competitor which greatly affected our work and threw any release schedule into disarray.

If only the team lead could have been honest at the time.

[Dagwoodyt]

The announcement confirms a situation that is pretty much as suspected. Of course announcing the actual state of TF 6.0 development sooner would not have helped sell DW-T so the late announcement is understandable from that perspective.

[Mysticpuma]

I think what would go a long way to letting the community decide whether V6 will ever be released is some WiP images/video from actual in game assets in the TFS build from December 2024.

The point being, show us some real progress that models are actually being modelled, models are already in game, just show us some tangible evidence that in the 18 months since FaF was announced, that the release date of December 2024 at the latest, has only just missed the mark.

 

If not, speak to your  community and be honest. Tell us what the state of play is. Yes we may be frustrated, but what's more frustrating is being kept in the dark and the surrounding silence.

 

If you want any community to be here when it's released, you best start engaging with them pretty damn quick and maybe discuss a marketing campaign with your new (in the job 9-months), PR and Marketing manager.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mysticpuma
typo

[Buzzsaw]

14 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

Embarrassing!

The community began to disbelieve the release would happen in 2024, especially with your silence and ignoring requests for any updates.

Now you say that new members are learning to model? Are you realistically expecting us to believe they can create all the announced content with no starting knowledge? It takes years to model efficiently.

 

The final nail in the coffin is the lack of any information on the current state of the following:

 

New Aircraft

Focke-Wulf 190A-1

Focke-Wulf 190A-2

Focke-Wulf 190A-3

Messerschmitt Bf-109G-2

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-1

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-2

Junkers Ju-88C-6

Junkers Ju-88A-4

Spitfire Mk VC

Spitfire Mk VC 'Clipped Wing'

Spitfire Mk IXA

P-51A-83

P-51A-91

B-17E

Wellington III

Beaufighter VIC

Typhoon Mk IA

Typhoon Mk IB

 

As it stands we are no further forward than the brief few WiP images shared before and that's it.

So what have 18 months of work produced, because of there is nothing different to show, we have to expect another 2-years at least.

 

Sadly, your post just makes this feel finally dead.

 

RIP CloD. Just imaging what could have been.

 

If only the team lead could have been honest at the time.

Your facts are incorrect.

 

We do not bring members into TF who have zero skills.

 

All the new 3D modelers we have recruited had good experience with 3dsMax or Blender and display high level skills.  They were all assessed by our 3D Modeling Department head who has 15 years experience of working as a professional... we turn down far more applicants than we accept.

 

The same criteria regarding acceptance applies for our programmers and any other applicants... all must show skill levels which will allow them to work with our systems and code.

 

Regarding the models listed above... we release updates on the work when we have something substantial to provide to the community.

 

At the moment, the following models are being actively worked on, are already partially finished, or already complete.

 

Focke-Wulf 190A-1

Focke-Wulf 190A-2

Focke-Wulf 190A-3

Junkers Ju-88C-6

Junkers Ju-88A-4

Spitfire Mk VC

Spitfire Mk VC 'Clipped Wing'

Spitfire Mk IXA

P-51A-83

P-51A-91

B-17E

Typhoon Mk IA

Typhoon Mk IB

 

Others not listed above are smaller projects which involve relatively simple modification of existing models, and will see work start in order of priority.  They should have been complete by now... but as mentioned, we lost the members who would have been able to do this work.

 

In the code area, with new recruitment, we now have more programmers than we ever have had since the team was formed... and their skills have allowed us to move forward.

 

As I have mentioned many times in the past, the visual updates and VR work are essentially a complete upgrade of the game engine to a new generation visually... comparable to the update from the original IL-2 1946 to CLIFFS.  As such it is a huge task and one which requires very high skill levels.

 

All of the work being done on the VU/VR and TF 6.0 is being approached systematically and on the basis of priority.

[Dagwoodyt]

7 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

The point being, show us some real progress that models are actually being modelled, models are already in game, just show us some tangible evidence that in the 18 months since FaF was announced, that the release date of December 2024 at the latest, has only just missed the mark.

I have to assume that showing an artillery piece and low res images of buildings is all there is to show. The B-17 would have been a very heavy lift for a paid staff if done in hi fidelity. Why anyone would believe that it and the other new aircraft announced could be completed by a constantly changing part-time volunteer staff in this decade I find difficult to understand.

[Buzzsaw]

4 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I have to assume that showing an artillery piece and low res images of buildings is all there is to show. The B-17 would have been a very heavy lift for a paid staff if done in hi fidelity. Why anyone would believe that it and the other new aircraft announced could be completed by a constantly changing part-time volunteer staff in this decade I find difficult to understand.

Once again, some incorrect facts.

 

Since the announcement we have posted updates on the B-17 and noted the external model is now complete and the cockpit is underway.

 

The modeler assigned to work on the B-17 has not changed... he continues his efforts.

 

The same applies to the FW-190A.

[No.54_Reddog]

As announcements go, it's a little lacklustre IMO. No sign of contrition or apologies, of course it's all someone else's fault, and then some jam tomorrow to finish. 

 

 

[Hiuuz]

Guys! Don't forget we're arguing about something we haven't even paid for. No doubt the appearance of COMBAT PILOT stirred the water. I'm sure some guys take a turn, and because of the payment mechanism what TFS has they have hard times in the last year. But as I see: I'm more of an "European Theatre" guy, that other sim will be no alternative for me even for many years! No doubt I will try it, as I bought other sims too, but if you like Spits and Messers than CloD will have no alternative. Yes, BoX is also there, but that was there since many years and CloD still lives next to it.

[Dagwoodyt]

36 minutes ago, Hiuuz said:

Don't forget we're arguing about something we haven't even paid for.

There is a difference between "arguing" and requesting information. Don't forget that revisions to AI and any feature additions await completion of TF 6.0. Thus Blitz/DWT must soldier on as is for another several years.🤕

[BOO]

58 minutes ago, Hiuuz said:

Guys! Don't forget we're arguing about something we haven't even paid for. No doubt the appearance of COMBAT PILOT stirred the water. I'm sure some guys take a turn, and because of the payment mechanism what TFS has they have hard times in the last year. But as I see: I'm more of an "European Theatre" guy, that other sim will be no alternative for me even for many years! No doubt I will try it, as I bought other sims too, but if you like Spits and Messers than CloD will have no alternative. Yes, BoX is also there, but that was there since many years and CloD still lives next to it.

You can’t say it’s living. Not on the numbers. Remember the steam totals ARE the totals. Multiplayer and single player. There is no hidden player base outside of steam. 
 

Edited December 30, 2024 by BOO

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, Buzzsaw said:

Regarding the models listed above... we release updates on the work when we have something substantial to provide to the community.

 

At the moment, the following models are being actively worked on, are already partially finished, or already complete

If that is the case, in the 18 months since FaF was announced, you have posted barely anything of these models, so taking your words,  "we release updates on the work when we have something substantial to provide to the community", then there has been nothing substantial completed since then.

 

I find it easy to understand now, using your own words, why your Marketing Manager, who has been in place for 9-months, has been unable to share anything of substance, because it's obvious there is nothing.

 

I rarely show my complete disdain, but if ever there was a time to substantiate your comments, this would be a time to actually showcase significant progress towards the end goal.

 

Otherwise it is yet again just the regurgitation of the oft used words "we hope", again and again and again.

I guess the new features like pilot/crew models and animations are way down the list

[Lorena_Scout]

Great news Buzzsaw, and thanks for keep us updated.

 

Hopefully the game will be ready soon, can't wait for finally flight on those new clouds in VR.

 

Cheers to the best ww2 sim o/

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Thanks for information. Hopefully soon more to tell and show. 

 

[Boomerang]

Wishing all the very best for a fast approaching New Year. 

[Hiuuz]

7 hours ago, BOO said:

You can’t say it’s living. Not on the numbers. Remember the steam totals ARE the totals. Multiplayer and single player. There is no hidden player base outside of steam. 
 

Yes, 50-100 people not too much, but at least we have these updates in front of us somewhere. I don't know what will happen with the WW2 playerbase of BoX in the long term, if the developement will shift to newer era.

[CAG_Sanders]

It's unfortunate to lose key team members and I am sure your licensing agreement plays some what into what can be shared. But as always the delay could have been stated long before. Once you lost these key members it was immediately known that you weren't making the deadline, which is understandable. Just tell people that it happened. I also agree that it is suspect that very little is being shown. No complete models shown just stated as such. It's understandable that the core changes are time consuming, maybe provide more insight to that other than just showing a few half baked models that really aren't progressing that much. Lastly I know it's mostly a labor of love, but at the rate things go here we will have two "new' flight sims to play long before the next DLC. By release the visual upgrade will be just as dated as the game is now. 

1 minute ago, Hiuuz said:

Yes, 50-100 people not too much, but at least we have these updates in front of us somewhere. I don't know what will happen with the WW2 playerbase of BoX in the long term, if the developement will shift to newer era.

They already have two maps coming out, and the associated planes. It most likely will both release long before the next dlc. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

8 hours ago, No.54_Reddog said:

As announcements go, it's a little lacklustre IMO. No sign of contrition or apologies, of course it's all someone else's fault, and then some jam tomorrow to finish. 

 

 

No, Reddog, Buzzsaw didn't say it's someone else's fault.

 

 

[354thFG_Leifr]

Kinda baffling that this information wasn't released earlier to allay several month's worth of concern, criticism and comment.

I look forward to having this discussion again in approximately eleven months. 😚

[Avimimus]

I hid a few posts that seemed to be singling one person out. Please avoid getting personal if you are criticising the team leadership (for this project or anyone else). Also, try to be specific in your criticisms and avoid speculating without evidence.

 

A reminder: All of the forum rules still apply even if the developer in question isn't 1C Game Studies.

[Hoots]

3 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I hid a few posts that seemed to be singling one person out. Please avoid getting personal if you are criticising the team leadership (for this project or anyone else). Also, try to be specific in your criticisms and avoid speculating without evidence.

 

A reminder: All of the forum rules still apply even if the developer in question isn't 1C Game Studies.

Bit harsh, my post didn’t criticise anyone. 

[FTC_Oakwoodson]

21 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I hid a few posts that seemed to be singling one person out. Please avoid getting personal if you are criticising the team leadership (for this project or anyone else). Also, try to be specific in your criticisms and avoid speculating without evidence.

 

A reminder: All of the forum rules still apply even if the developer in question isn't 1C Game Studies.

How can you not single out Buzzsaw when he is the entire leadership in its entirety? It's weird to criticise or refer to 'Leadership' as 'them' when it condists of a single person. Let's not pretend there's some sort of board of directors over at TFS, it's one person calling the shots and that's that.

[No.54_Reddog]

Ah, I did NOT see that coming...

 

I'd wager that there is no acceptable form of words that could be used without the same reaction. 

 

My prediction? Thread closed shortly. 

39 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I hid a few posts that seemed to be singling one person out. Please avoid getting personal if you are criticising the team leadership (for this project or anyone else). Also, try to be specific in your criticisms and avoid speculating without evidence.

 

A reminder: All of the forum rules still apply even if the developer in question isn't 1C Game Studies.

It would be useful if you could provide examples to those who have offended by citing what you believe to be "speculation" as you have left me at least speculating as to what I might have speculated about.

 

I've previously pointed out to you that your comment "be specific in your criticism" is entirely at odds with your stance not to single out an individual. When that person IS the specificity in question. 

[Bussard_x]

I do not look at a possible release date but at the progress made. The list of aircraft from Buzzsaw is good news what that is concerned. There are all kind of reactions on the current situation from angry to relieved. But let’s face it, we would all be disappointed if the project would be cancelled for whatever reason. But that is not the case, so yes I felt relieved about that. Wish TFS a lot of success with the project!

[Mysticpuma]

10 minutes ago, Bussard_x said:

Wish TFS a lot of success with the project!

No-one wishes no success, the issue is they share nothing with their community and then expect us to be happy when they tell us nothing again.

Literally they could have posted this months ago, but sadly they are constantly locked away by the gatekeeping of Buzzsaw who has refused to share anything.

 

Is a change of leader an option for the team because the current one hasn't set a good example for years?

[LuftManu]

Please keep it civil. There is no need to "unhid" some of the "too passionate comments that break the rules" to show some proof.

 

Everybody is mature enough to understand what Avimimus said and like a snowball, it just grows if it keeps rolling and some nasty things are said or meant.

If some people are angry because of this, I could understand but there is nothing you guys can do. Specially if there is no money involved. 

TFS made an statement, end of the story. Some might agree, some may not. Some may think it's false, others will think it's ok.

Just don't start a war in the comments. And remember, you can always express your dissatisfaction in a civil way, so the TFS team reads it's community. Just keep it civil 👍

The rules on this forum won't tolerate name-calling, insults and other implications.

 

Personal take. Now commenting as an user here:
Well, it's a shame we don't get to fly in the 6.0 this year. I think that maybe delaying it some months in advance would have helped than rather a sudden message. Whatever it is, it's reasuring to read that there are more people on this project now.

I hope everything goes well in the future! and I think that a better communication next time would be great, specially to see the advances. I don't care about the release date but rather the quality of the paid product. Those bombers were looking good! I think working on this now that there is a delay will help a lot in the future 

Also: I believe that Early Access is not the answer really, so good with that! 

Happy new year to the team!

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

 

[No.54_Reddog]

11 minutes ago, LuftManu said:

Please keep it civil.

 

That is the issue. People were keeping it civil, but that didn't stop messages being removed. I am not asking for proof, I'm trying to point out the impossibility of being specific, and yet not, the impossibility of discussing the reasons why we are here, without referencing specific people. Until we can have a sensible adult conversation about the causes and the results then we are destined to repeat the same outcomes.

 

 

[FTC_Oakwoodson]

Is using the words 'Shambles' now considered un-civil? 

[LuftManu]

6 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

 

That is the issue. People were keeping it civil, but that didn't stop messages being removed. I am not asking for proof, I'm trying to point out the impossibility of being specific, and yet not, the impossibility of discussing the reasons why we are here, without referencing specific people. Until we can have a sensible adult conversation about the causes and the results then we are destined to repeat the same outcomes.

 

 

Sorry Reddog, I didn’t see it like that neither Avimimus. So please, understand that.

 

We can continue in private, as discussing moderation decissions in public is not allowed.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

[Kapteeni]

Good New Year! I Hope that we see updates soon!!

[AWC]

Thanks moderators. If anyone is interested, there is a more in-depth post coming in a day or so. It answers many questions that you have and has some visuals.

[No.54_Reddog]

12 minutes ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

Thanks moderators. If anyone is interested, there is a more in-depth post coming in a day or so. It answers many questions that you have and has some visuals.

Another pre announcement? So soon? We are spoiled.

[Mysticpuma]

42 minutes ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

Thanks moderators. If anyone is interested, there is a more in-depth post coming in a day or so. It answers many questions that you have and has some visuals.

 

Maybe in future, the head of TFS would consider discussing updates before posting them, that way you could work some magic and actually create an update that isn't just a block of text saying what everybody already knows and actually present some actual progress, which you could have done....if the Team Lead would let you actually do your job 👍

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2024 by Mysticpuma

[Hiuuz]

Keep kalm, at least we have some official news!

[Hoots]

1 minute ago, Hiuuz said:

Keep kalm, at least we have some official news!

Everyone is calm. 

[Buffo002]

There have been enough insults. I don't care that some individuals want to show, regularly progress on new works, probably just to satisfy their ego. I haven't experienced this with other games, that they regularly show progress on what they've done new in 14 days then in a month etc. As far as I know, they showed us all the models of new aircraft, since they are going to release the next DLC and the frequent published samples of what they've done are keeping them from working. And especially here are the players who are screaming for VR, the game wasn't planned to be VR before and the turning point of the delay was caused by this decision, to overwrite the codes that argue with VR and TRUE sky, 4K models, 4K terrains, this is the main problem of the whole delay (and VR also concerned the original first models that Oleg was still working on) and you keep talking only about new DLC, and if you noticed, they also showed us models from other upcoming DLC, so think about it. Do you think they only work on the FORTRESSES AND FOCKE-WULFS – DIEPPE models? Certainly not, but why would they keep revealing something, they simply don't publish it, it's not their duty. And this at a time when people from their team were regularly leaving, so they had completely different concerns than dealing with publishing new updates. We can be happy that they found a replacement and overcame the worst part, that the entire project would be canceled, be aware of that. And especially you who keep criticizing and insulting here, and for some it's already beyond the bounds of decency. I'm glad that TFS is still working and continues to solve the difficult problems with coding and of course other work.

[Hoots]

9 minutes ago, Buffo002 said:

There have been enough insults. I don't care that some individuals want to show, regularly progress on new works, probably just to satisfy their ego.

I haven’t seen a single insult. Could you tell me where they are?