FW-190 D9 Winter "pack"

[Roland_HUNter]

When will the FW 190 D-9 finally be fixed? Currently, on winter maps, it is slower than the FW 190 A. Based on past forum discussions, there was a real-life option for winter-summer engine adjustments. Will this ever be addressed?

[Avimimus]

Citation? Data?

[Roland_HUNter]

 

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 12/27/2024 at 11:44 PM, Roland_HUNter said:

 

If you read this thread (with excellent contributions from ZachariasX, JtD and Bremspropeller!), the conclusion is that the Fw190D-9 speed decrease on winter maps is realistic.

 

To quote ZachariasX:

Quote

The Fw190D9 just pays the price for reatining rated performance in denser athmosphere. And it pays the price in a way that fits an remarkably exact way the discarded power gain by reducing ata while benefitting from leaner mixture.

 

I don't see any "real-life option for winter-summer engine adjustments" referenced anywhere, let alone a "winter pack". Do you have any new information that was not already discussed at length in the thread you quoted?

[Roland_HUNter]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Do you have any new information that was not already discussed at length in the thread you quoted?

Unfortunately, there is none.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

36 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Unfortunately, there is none.

But in that thread, the conclusion was that IL2 does it correctly. If IL2 is correct, then what is there to "finally be fixed"?

[Roland_HUNter]

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

But in that thread, the conclusion was that IL2 does it correctly. If IL2 is correct, then what is there to "finally be fixed"?

Where is that conclusion?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

11 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

Where is that conclusion?

Here:

 

 

To quote from the linked comment:

Quote

The Fw190D9 just pays the price for reatining rated performance in denser athmosphere. And it pays the price in a way that fits an remarkably exact way the discarded power gain by reducing ata while benefitting from leaner mixture.

[...]

Winter summer... things are as they should be, exactly. so.

Edited January 12 by AEthelraedUnraed

[Roland_HUNter]

It's a hypothesis, an argument. In the game, the D9 is still slower than the A8 in winter and according to the above documents, the engine was adjustable IRL.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

55 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

In the game, the D9 is still slower than the A8 in winter

According to the calculations by ZachariasX, the speeds of the D9 are exactly what they're supposed to be.

 

56 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

according to the above documents, the engine was adjustable IRL.

According to what above documents? The two threads you linked don't show any such thing. Instead, I repeat, the conclusion of the thread is that the D9 speed in IL2 is spot-on.

[Roland_HUNter]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

According to the calculations by ZachariasX, the speeds of the D9 are exactly what they're supposed to be.

"So we have two things that add speed to the aircraft, one is the increase in air mass that increases power, the other is the leaning of the mixture that in rich mixture settings lead to higher power output (if you don't care for predetonation etc.). I am somewhat certain that this leaning in mixture is the cause for the Fw190D9 getting a slight speed bump (593 -> 606) in winter, that is some 2%. Or, about 1/4 of the total speed gain in aircraft that have no air mass regulated carb. 2% in speed gain would  be about 7% in added engine power. Depending on the power curve used, this could actually make somewhat sense, but is definitely on the high side. Especially sice C3 fuel has very, very good rich-rich burn qualities. "

The automatic mixture system of the D9 should be adjustable like in IRL.

Documents:

And above.


Based on DCS Bediengerat Engine Control Unit:
"Additional controls are also available that allow for some Engine Control Unit parameters to be manually finetuned. "
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/dora/?SHOWALL_1=1
 

So we need manual infos about the Bediengerat.

But if you ask me, it would be odd that Anton's FW-190 automatic system was solved in winter, but not Dora's.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

56 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

"So we have two things that add speed to the aircraft, one is the increase in air mass that increases power, the other is the leaning of the mixture that in rich mixture settings lead to higher power output (if you don't care for predetonation etc.). I am somewhat certain that this leaning in mixture is the cause for the Fw190D9 getting a slight speed bump (593 -> 606) in winter, that is some 2%. Or, about 1/4 of the total speed gain in aircraft that have no air mass regulated carb. 2% in speed gain would  be about 7% in added engine power. Depending on the power curve used, this could actually make somewhat sense, but is definitely on the high side. Especially sice C3 fuel has very, very good rich-rich burn qualities. "

You quote something from midway the thread. If you read a few posts later, you find that JtD pointed out a mistake in the calculations by ZachariasX that led to the results that you are quoting. ZachariasX himself agreed that your quoted results are erroneous and did them again. With the improved calculations, it turned out the Fw190 speed in IL2 is correct.

 

59 minutes ago, Roland_HUNter said:

The automatic mixture system of the D9 should be adjustable like in IRL.

Documents:

Those are testing reports. No-one doubts that when testing their aircraft, Focke Wulf engineers could and did adjust settings. That's what flight tests are for.

 

The question is whether those settings were adjusted in the field. None of the documents in that thread show that. If you have documents that show that these settings were set by Luftwaffe field mechanics on a somewhat regular basis, please supply these documents since they would prove your point.

 

1 hour ago, Roland_HUNter said:

So we need manual infos about the Bediengerat.

Yes. If field manuals of the Bediengerät show that the necessary settings could and were meant to be changed in the field during regular maintenance, that would add credibility to your point. Right now, none of the documents show that the engine was adjusted before flight according to the current temperature.

 

1 hour ago, Roland_HUNter said:

But if you ask me, it would be odd that Anton's FW-190 automatic system was solved in winter, but not Dora's.

This is explained at length in the thread you quote....