High compression cylinders for the SE5a

[plepew]

I ask this because James McCudden modified his SE5a with high compression cylinders to stalk high altitude recon aircraft like the D.F.W's and Rumplers (though the latter is not avail in Flying Circus).  

 

I realize that it would be difficult to provide alternate modifications for all the engines that were historically available for the SE5a, but would it be easier to provide a "field mod" ala McCudden for higher compression cylinders to allow the SE5a to have a service ceiling around 22,000 ft?  I know this wasn't a widely available/employed mod but DFW recon crews would use altitude to evade entente fighters and the addition of this mod would allow for missions to pursue such high altitude prey.  

 

@US103_Rummell provides a nice summary of the various engines available and has some great references that might make it possible for the developers to reverse engineer a good approximation of the likely performance of such a mod more or less equivalent to the 220hp French-made HS8Bc. 

 

 

[No.23_Starling]

19 hours ago, plepew said:

I ask this because James McCudden modified his SE5a with high compression cylinders to stalk high altitude recon aircraft like the D.F.W's and Rumplers (though the latter is not avail in Flying Circus).  

 

I realize that it would be difficult to provide alternate modifications for all the engines that were historically available for the SE5a, but would it be easier to provide a "field mod" ala McCudden for higher compression cylinders to allow the SE5a to have a service ceiling around 22,000 ft?  I know this wasn't a widely available/employed mod but DFW recon crews would use altitude to evade entente fighters and the addition of this mod would allow for missions to pursue such high altitude prey.  

 

@US103_Rummell provides a nice summary of the various engines available and has some great references that might make it possible for the developers to reverse engineer a good approximation of the likely performance of such a mod more or less equivalent to the 220hp French-made HS8Bc. 

 

 

It would be amazing to get engine variants. The SE5a we have in game currently is the HS8A 200hp (Viper) engine, which was an uprated version of the SPAD VII engine.

The geared HS8B is in game currently for the Dolphin and SPAD XIII - the latter seems to use the 200hp version not the uprated 220hp variant.

 

Wings Over Flanders Fields includes the 150hp SE5, 200hp HS8B SE5a, and Viper SE5a. They’ve modelled the unreliable gear in the HS8B version which is pretty cool.

 

In terms of performance however, the 220hp HS8B variant as used by McCudden was the fastest and best climbing of the series but not widely used. Partly this was due to a lack of engines, partly due to reliability of the geared HS8B, but also as a result of British doctrine. McCudden was a vocal advocate of high altitude recon interceptions but the top brass weren’t very interested vs more aggressive tactics (see the Cole book for more info).

[US103_Baer]

On 12/7/2024 at 11:53 PM, plepew said:

I ask this because James McCudden modified his SE5a with high compression cylinders to stalk high altitude recon aircraft like the D.F.W's and Rumplers (though the latter is not avail in Flying Circus).  

 

I realize that it would be difficult to provide alternate modifications for all the engines that were historically available for the SE5a, but would it be easier to provide a "field mod" ala McCudden for higher compression cylinders to allow the SE5a to have a service ceiling around 22,000 ft?  I know this wasn't a widely available/employed mod but DFW recon crews would use altitude to evade entente fighters and the addition of this mod would allow for missions to pursue such high altitude prey.  

 

@US103_Rummell provides a nice summary of the various engines available and has some great references that might make it possible for the developers to reverse engineer a good approximation of the likely performance of such a mod more or less equivalent to the 220hp French-made HS8Bc. 

 

 

 

I'll mention it again because lots of people think the SE5a Viper we have in-game is under-powered. But it was actually given the very high compression 5.6 : 1 by the devs, of which only an experimental 19 were made. (Sources: AnPetrov ROF post and Hispano Suiza in Aeronautics..M.Lage). 

The standard Viper had 5.3 : 1 compression ratio, just like the Type 34S 180hp Hissos. So the SE5a in-game is technically over-powered! 

 

Here's the link to a re-post of AnP's 2011 original. You can draw your own conclusions

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/86059-re-post-updating-the-se5a-10-sept-2011-anpetrovich/

 

 

In essence, all roads lead to Flight Model work. Engine mods without FM corrections won't solve anything and more likely create a bigger mess.