This seems to be a 'condensation' of why not to buy Pimax.

[Panzerlang]

I've read/heard so many comments with bits of what's in this video but this video is like the full experience. I would have to hear really stellar things, across the board, about the forthcoming Super before I'd even begin to consider it.
 

 

[DBCOOPER011]

I have to agree! Although I like the latest headsets pimax brought out, I'm somewhat apprehensive about their customer service. Luckily my headset hasn't had any serious issues, but I would be somewhat worried about having to RMA it. I feel like a guinea pig for the upcoming super... 

[Panzerlang]

With hardware that has such a huge issue with QC, the after-sale support is crucial. Pimax have next to none. Worse than that, they deliberately try to bilk the customer.

Personally, even if the support was top-notch I'd avoid the product, simply because of the bother required dealing with units that are hit-or-miss. My Crystal has been working OK since July '23 but as I've put so few hours on it I'm not giving that much meaning. And yes, it works, but while the screen-image is triple-AAA, the way it reaches my eyes is the worst out of all the headsets I've owned. I don't know if it's badly designed binocular-overlap, poor lenses or what but my eyes are not comfortable.

[DBCOOPER011]

TBH, I believe all these VR headset companies are sketchy to a certain extent. There is Meta with its personal data mining, Somnium with their very late rollout/price, and Pimax with their lackluster customer support. Megane X is new and unknown at this time. Varjo is too expensive and not geared towared the consumer market. The only decent company seemed to be Valve, and they aint makin headsets anymore. Unfortunately its a roll of the dice with all of them. Your going to wait along time for the perfect headset...

[firdimigdi]

Pity, I was really hoping they'd get out of that rut and achieve some level of respectability. It sure sounded like they were trying to turn it around but I guess it seems that was, sadly, just the marketing department.

[Varibraun]

On 11/23/2024 at 5:31 AM, firdimigdi said:

Pity, I was really hoping they'd get out of that rut and achieve some level of respectability. It sure sounded like they were trying to turn it around but I guess it seems that was, sadly, just the marketing department.

 

Mark definitely got their attention with that video, looks like at least their marketing department wants to address it with steps they state they are now taking (we shall see and I certainly hope so, because I agree with Mark's statement in the video that PCVR really needs Pimax to succeed).  Here was their rapid follow up with him:

 

 

[MAJORgoonMADLOU]

Im hoping I can keep my Reverb working for several more years somehow instead of having to deal with these new VR companies.

[Dagwoodyt]

So now Pimax is requiring a mandatory non-refundable "subscription" to be purchased along with a new HMD? That does not speak to an intent to improve QC.🤣

[Panzerlang]

5 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

So now Pimax is requiring a mandatory non-refundable "subscription" to be purchased along with a new HMD? That does not speak to an intent to improve QC.🤣

As surmised by many others, it's most likely a tactic to stop people doing card charge-backs after being screwed over.

[Dagwoodyt]

11 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

As surmised by many others, it's most likely a tactic to stop people doing card charge-backs after being screwed over.

It would give Pimax $1000.00 up front and $33.00 a month for 24 months. What would be their hurry to deliver the headset? Further, if the buyer is the importer, there seems no telling what import duties might be applicable at date of shipment.

[Panzerlang]

7 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

It would give Pimax $1000.00 up front and $33.00 a month for 24 months. What would be their hurry to deliver the headset? Further, if the buyer is the importer, there seems no telling what import duties might be applicable at date of shipment.

 

That would be down to what value Pimax put on the shipping label I guess.

[Dagwoodyt]

9 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

 

That would be down to what value Pimax put on the shipping label I guess.

Pimax has plenty of reason to delay shipping as long as possible. Meanwhile the buyer/importer pays for a subscription that cannot be utilized?

[firdimigdi]

16 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

So now Pimax is requiring a mandatory non-refundable "subscription" to be purchased along with a new HMD? That does not speak to an intent to improve QC.🤣

 

This seems to be an evolving and interesting summary:

 

[Varibraun]

Latest refund discussion begins at 6:40:

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

Too complicated and you can bet that Pimax will disavow any part of his presentation they choose. My question is whether Pimax could potentially pursue a subscriber for breach of contract for refusing to pay the monthly subscription fee.

Edited November 29, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[BOO]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Too complicated and you can bet that Pimax will disavow any part of his presentation they choose. My question is whether Pimax could potentially pursue a subscriber for breach of contract for refusing to pay the monthly subscription fee.

 

They will just switch off the headset and cut their losses surely? 

[Dagwoodyt]

53 minutes ago, BOO said:

 

They will just switch off the headset and cut their losses surely? 

We are both just guessing. That is the problem. I doubt the buyer would be out of the contract until Pimax refunds the purchase price. Prime gives Pimax a lot of cards it could potentially play🤔

[Panzerlang]

Here's what I think will happen...somebody will buy a unit with the first cash down and the rest on instalments, after a few months the unit will go down, Pimax will try to leverage extra cash for a fix (warranty will be ignored and this has already happened to hundreds of owners) and the customer will do a charge-back on the original down-payment. The money already paid in instalments, bye bye to that and Pimax will then brick the unit (which means even if the owner gets it fixed by other means it'll still be dead).

Pimax, of course, will swear and promise otherwise, just as they've been doing from day one but as is now proven, they are bare-faced liars. 
As much as I'd prefer Pimax to be supplying a stellar product (and selling it without all the Prime BS) it is what it is and I'm quite looking forward to seeing what kind of clusterfk the Super release turns out to be.

And as for the Prime deal, imagine it as another (virtual) cable you need connected to your headset...but instead of that cable being connected to your PC, alongside the DP and USB ones, it's connected to a Pimax server thousands of miles away.

Edited November 29, 2024 by Panzerlang

[Dagwoodyt]

Other situations bound to happen include the customer's Super getting lost in transit, either coming from Pimax or going back to Pimax or gets delivered back to Pimax, but Pimax cannot find it in their "system". All the while Pimax has the customer's money and monthly charges are accruing😟
 

Edited November 30, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[BOO]

....and we could all get hit by a bus tomorrow.... 

 

I dont see how any of the concerns raised are vastly different from someone in a situation where they have bought a crystal outright. 

 

Am I missing something?

[[CPT]Crunch]

If they over step too far the customer base will fix them with a painful decrease in sales.  These things sort themselves.  I for one will never buy a 57 ppd set just to  be able to buy a 50 ppd wider view pack as a separate option.   Pimax can either sell it as a distinct single purchase option to me or not at all, that is if I like what I see when it's actual hardware, and I'll be doing a one payment, no subscriptions wanted.  

 

I happen to like my light, it's near perfect, having a lot of fun in it and fly it far longer sessions more often than my old G-2 with far greater success on the combat box.  But I also understand what shaky support with faulty equipment can do to ones gaming experience over failed expectations, not fun and not much fair about the exchange when it doesn't ultimately get fixed, nor do you get your full amount back, that's not acceptable nor good business practice for the long run.      

[Dagwoodyt]

Looking at promises of 50 and 57 ppd headsets one would think that Pimax is at the cutting edge of VR headset development. Then you view complaints from customers whose 35 ppd Pimax headsets suffer from multiple hardware and software faults. There is a flood of YT videos promoting Pimax headsets over the last month and likely for the foreseeable future. I think the plan is to soak up all available cash from the flight and racing sim community so as to choke off competition. That done, mandatory software subscription would become easier to force. Given Pimax' unenviable QC reputation, diminished competition bodes ill for future of VR simming.

[Panzerlang]

6 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Looking at promises of 50 and 57 ppd headsets one would think that Pimax is at the cutting edge of VR headset development. Then you view complaints from customers whose 35 ppd Pimax headsets suffer from multiple hardware and software faults. There is a flood of YT videos promoting Pimax headsets over the last month and likely for the foreseeable future. I think the plan is to soak up all available cash from the flight and racing sim community so as to choke off competition. That done, mandatory software subscription would become easier to force. Given Pimax' unenviable QC reputation, diminished competition bodes ill for future of VR simming.

On top of which, Somnium have effectively priced themselves into oblivion and Varjo are out of the consumer market (I guess they got their toes well burned with the burden of support).

[BOO]

12 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

That done, mandatory software subscription would become easier to force. Given Pimax' unenviable QC reputation, diminished competition bodes ill for future of VR simming.

 

Where has this ever been mentioned other than here and the distopian future you and Panzerlang are dreaming up between you? 

 

Ultimately Primax have been the only player at the price/tech point they operate in for some time. They havent conspired in dark corners to stop anyone else coming to market. Quite the opposite, its the others would have either failed to provide a suiatble product or withdrawn of their own free will having seen how limited the market actually is. In the case of the Aero, leaving users in the lurch. Now thats poor practice. 

 

What being offered is a way into higher end VR without the up-front hit. You can see it however you like but people have been doing this for a long long time for lots of high value goods though, in the case of Prime, the APR isnt criminal and there isnt a balloon payment at the end. And you dont even have to go for it. You can just buy the thing outright. No-one is forcing a subscription on you. The big news of course is you dont have to go for it at all. Go buy a BSB or a MeganeX and be happy. 

 

What really bodes ill for the future of VR is that big tech isnt interested in it. AR is where the money is at cos old men who sit at PCs are a dying breed whereas youngsters staring into phones are not.  So....perhaps be grateful we still have what we have, however imperfect. 

[Panzerlang]

What's being offered by Pimax, Boo, is quite expensive hardware that will more likely than not malfunction well within a year (if you use it reasonably regularly). Then you're into the nightmare of Pimax 'support'. On top of which, now, is some kind of mental subscription or membership malarkey (applies to both those who pay in instalments or buy their unit outright).

There's nothing 'dystopian' about it and there are other players in the market who do offer far better quality, albeit at far higher prices. Personally I'd rather pay more for what I want to get, as opposed to less for a xmas-cracker 'bargain' though. See the original video in this thread for how the xmas-cracker special worked out for Mark.

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, BOO said:

You can just buy the thing outright. No-one is forcing a subscription on you.

Prime membership seems obligatory. How does one "buy the thing outright"?

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Prime membership seems obligatory. How does one "buy the thing outright"?

 

 

Below is closest statement I find to answer that question, but it does seem like you are still part of "Prime" to use PimaxPlay you are just "paid off" by paying upfront and also getting the discount. 

 

Since they didn't really change the previously announced pricing once Prime is added in, I do wonder if part of the reason this was implemented/announced after the US election was in anticipation of potential additional US tariffs, which probably don't apply to memberships vs hardware imports?

 

https://pimax.com/products/pimax-crystal-super

[Dagwoodyt]

38 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

Since they didn't really change the previously announced pricing once Prime is added in, I do wonder if part of the reason this was implemented/announced after the US election was in anticipation of potential additional US tariffs, which probably don't apply to memberships vs hardware imports?

Yes, that's the theory. Once in place though, the membership could become a fixture.😉

[Varibraun]

9 hours ago, BOO said:

So....perhaps be grateful we still have what we have, however imperfect. 

 

Thanks Boo, that is also my view (at an age where I appreciate that no one is promised tomorrow, so I need to enjoy what is here now if it doesn't "break the bank"), so I finally decided to pre-order the Super - for better or worse. 

 

Getting the Crystal owner $399 discount, already being on the reserve list, the likelihood that prices will go up next year, and the 14 day trial period return finally pushed me over the edge.  It also helps that my Crystal and personal experience with Pimax support, while not perfect, have been decent over the past 18 months.  I hope the attention that Mark and others have shined on the support problems helps too, but we shall see and I will report my experiences.  FYI - I tend to have low expectations on shipping dates (hardware and game releases for that matter), so I don't actually expect to get it until June  

 

4 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Yes, that's the theory. Once in place though, the membership could become a fixture.😉

 

I hear you, but I don't think they can get away with it on this go around with the information they have published, especially if you prepay.

Edited December 2, 2024 by Varibraun

[T24_Martin]

I do own a Crystal and I did have problems. But to be honest... The customer service was one of the best I have ever experienced. Whenever I had an issue I got a swift response. Sure it took sometimes two or three days, but that is absolutely fine. They send me lenses and new headsets. All to the point when I was pleased with what I got. Always helpful and always polite. 

 

So yes, they do have serious quality control issues, but from all I experience, Pimax wants to be better and at least in my case it doesn't fell like they just want my money. 

 

At one point I was even called by Martin ( the guy from all the Pimax videos) and he offered me to handpick a Crystal for me and test it when I needed to send my back. We hat a nice chat about VR... So that's something I never experienced with any other company!

[BOO]

On 12/2/2024 at 12:26 PM, Panzerlang said:

What's being offered by Pimax, Boo, is quite expensive hardware that will more likely than not malfunction well within a year (if you use it reasonably regularly). Then you're into the nightmare of Pimax 'support'. On top of which, now, is some kind of mental subscription or membership malarkey (applies to both those who pay in instalments or buy their unit outright).

There's nothing 'dystopian' about it and there are other players in the market who do offer far better quality, albeit at far higher prices. Personally I'd rather pay more for what I want to get, as opposed to less for a xmas-cracker 'bargain' though. See the original video in this thread for how the xmas-cracker special worked out for Mark.

 

Yes there are other players. But not at the price points of Primax. Which was my point. Its a point you, yourself make above. 

 

Reading through the thread and back of forth between you and Dagwoody I feel you both missed  key points about Prime in terms of how the subscription works, at what point you need to decide if you want to pay it, pay up front or return the headset. The conversation also ran off on flights of fancy about it being a ploy to tie you into an order when Primax dont send you a headset (completely not how prime is proposed to work). All this seems to based on some favorite you-tuber and not your own experience also. Its pretty clear from your comments you have a downer on Primax.

 

In short, the thread was running off with itself and quite a few baseless statements where being presented as facts. I figured a 3rd voice with a different perspective wouldnt hurt. 

 

Others have now come forward to state that the Primax customer service was actually good. The fact it was required isnt lost on me but, if you care to look around forums various, you will find that decent aftercare experiences are not uncommon. Plenty of room for improvement though. That I will agree. 

 

You can agree or disagree. Its all good. 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2024 by BOO

[firdimigdi]

Being in the "scouting for a newer HMD" boat, like others in my situation, I've been paying attention to Pimax's offerings, sadly things like the above or below keep popping up in their sub:

 

And the "positive" experience reviews are for situations that IMO shouldn't of have been happening to start with and tbh I find very hard to see in a positive light:

I, as I imagine others, really don't have the time or patience for such adventures when dishing out so much money for a piece of hardware. My experience with headsets starting from the Oculus CV1, Rift S and HP Reverb G2 has been smooth sailing with each of them, HP even sent me on request a V2 cable for my Reverb even though my V1 cable was working fine through a powered USB hub (wouldn't work without one, which was an issue with AMD-based m/b at the time) - in fact they all still work with no issues whatsoever and I still got the Rift S plugged in with the G2. Granted, I might've lucked out or just don't clock as many hours in VR as others but most of the issues reported for pimax are either day one or quite close and frankly that's a big turn off.

 

Regarding the Prime debacle, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt of it being all down to badly phrased wording or not adequately explained instead of an elaborate ploy to swindle people (which would be hard to do anyhow being in the spotlight for bad QC as they already are); on the other hand of course the questions brought forth popped in to mind immediately upon reading the offer on their website so I'm surprised the people involved in Pimax didn't realize they'd be asked about this.

Edited December 9, 2024 by firdimigdi

[Dagwoodyt]

 

Excellent discussion and comments are just as interesting.

[BOO]

3 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

 

Excellent discussion and comments are just as interesting.

 

or, conversely a you tuber milking it for all its worth. 

[Varibraun]

11 minutes ago, BOO said:

or, conversely a you tuber milking it for all its worth. 

 

FWIW (i.e. nothing) - I find this channel to be informative for niches within niches of niches (Mark does a good job with information for a very small audience).

[Dagwoodyt]

30 minutes ago, BOO said:

or, conversely a you tuber milking it for all its worth.

I think that either in the video or comments the point was made that arguing with a Pimaxian is a fruitless endeavor 😉

[BOO]

9 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

 

FWIW (i.e. nothing) - I find this channel to be informative for niches within niches of niches (Mark does a good job with information for a very small audience).

 

Mearly adding an alternate point of view to help balance all the previous "They're eating the dawgs" nonsense in this thread 🙂 

 

 

[Dagwoodyt]

5 minutes ago, BOO said:

Mearly adding an alternate point of view

Which is what? Is the video demonstrably false or misleading? If so then please explain your "alternate point of view". Otherwise it might seem that you are simply unhappy with what was said and/or the accompanying comments.😉

[BOO]

51 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Which is what? Is the video demonstrably false or misleading? If so then please explain your "alternate point of view". Otherwise it might seem that you are simply unhappy with what was said and/or the accompanying comments.😉

 

Did i say that?  No. I said  its a you tuber milking a subject for all its worth. Which it is. Moreover its a you tuber speaking into an echo chamber from what I can see. Im not saying anything is wrong buts nothing that hasnt been said before and nothing revolutionary. Primax need to up their game. No SH Sherlock. Did it need an Hour? Probably not.

 

Whilst we are on the subject of false and misleading though.....Panzerlang and yourself have gone completely tin foil hats over Primax in this thread so far and made some pretty outlandish and incorrect claims between you. None of which youve seen fit to correct.  You may well agree that arguing with Primaxians is irksome but, equally, so is reading the garbage put out by VRs very own Qanon.

[Dagwoodyt]

50 minutes ago, BOO said:

 

Did i say that?  No. I said  its a you tuber milking a subject for all its worth. Which it is. Moreover its a you tuber speaking into an echo chamber from what I can see. Im not saying anything is wrong buts nothing that hasnt been said before and nothing revolutionary. Primax need to up their game. No SH Sherlock. Did it need an Hour? Probably not.

 

Whilst we are on the subject of false and misleading though.....Panzerlang and yourself have gone completely tin foil hats over Primax in this thread so far and made some pretty outlandish and incorrect claims between you. None of which youve seen fit to correct.  You may well agree that arguing with Primaxians is irksome but, equally, so is reading the garbage put out by VRs very own Qanon.

TY😉