User Impressions of FC4, please

[Russkly]

For pretty much the first time ever I haven't pre-ordered or bought immediately at launch a 1CGS product.

 

Reasons were as per many posts in this forum, esp. the FMs of key aircraft such as the Albatros Dx and Pfalz series.

 

If I have understood correctly FC4 brings us:

 

• The seven new aircraft advertised
  • What are your impressions of these a/c and their FMs?
• Re-worked N28 FM
  • Impressions being discussed in a separate thread already
• Paris

 

Anything else of note that I'm missing?

 

Whilst I appreciate that value for money is subjective, how are you all feeling about FC4 and its price tag (now USD63.99 in the 1C store)?

 

Is it worth going for now, or perhaps better to wait for a sale and/or to see whether the potential further refinements/adjustments (as per Luke's and Regingrave's posts in the thread below)...actually happen?

 

Just looking for opinions to aid me in my purchasing decision, please

 

Edited November 21, 2024 by Russkly

[BMA_Hellbender]

I bought FC4 immediately, as it is currently on launch sale. Full price will likely apply soon.

 

For what it’s worth, I’m gladly paying for the FM reviews, which is what I was primarily interested in. Obviously if all you want is the N28 FM review and you already own FC2, then by rights you already own that content, you have a right to expect that existing content is continually improved and there’s no need to pay for anything.

 

However, nothing in the world is free, we’re very much living in the era of software as a service, and I consider what I’m doing “extending my subscription” towards the longevity of the WWI portion of this sim. It just so happens that I get a few extra planes out of it, at least some of which interest me more than a little bit (Airco DH.2, Albatros D.III and Sopwith Pup), and two of those have in fact also been reviewed.

 

Call me soft as I reach middle age, but I believe in rewarding good behaviour. Now if you want to adopt a wait-and-see attitude, that’s really up to you to decide. Even without FM reviews I would have eventually bought the content on a deeper sale down the line — but that may be a year away or more.

[Zooropa_Fly]

Bought it today - 53 GBP.

I think that's very reasonable for what you get.

[Patricks]

39 minutes ago, Russkly said:

 

Whilst I appreciate that value for money is subjective, how are you all feeling about FC4 and its price tag (now USD63.99 in the 1C store)?

 

Is it worth going for now, or perhaps better to wait for a sale and/or to see whether the potential (as per Luke's and Regingrave's posts in this thread...actually happen?

 

 

I purchased it, did so for several reasons, one of which new content I want, but even more so the continued support of a producer that not only puts out excellent content, but also moving forward with Korea (which I REALLY can't wait for), and after that the Pacific theater.

[Trooper117]

Right... £53 for FC4.

Stalker 2, £49.99... can't afford both, hmm!

[Trooper117]

Video of the dev team testing out the new N28 fm's...

 

 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

The marketing strategy at Flying Circus is perhaps a little clumsy. If you compare the modules you get in Volume 1 or 2 (each volume with 10 planes+ lots of variants) so much more then in Volume 3 or 4. ( just 7 to 8 planes each )

Instead of other Great Battles modules each volume have the same map (+Arras) so maybe the pricing is for some people difficult to understand…

 

My personal perspective:

 I started with Vol.1 just for a try, but I always had a big interest in WW1 history so I was easy to catch 😅

When Vol.2 was announced I purchased it in early access and this was a very good decision because with every new plane comes in I had soooo much fun instantly, latest from that time I getting Flying Circus addicted. And the final injection of digital heroine was my jump into VR, I think everyone here can confirm the magic of WW1 planes and generally the magic of open cockpits under the VR Google’s.

The instant fun I can have with an early purchase have much more value for me then waiting ages for a sale to save some €’s!!!

And I pay a good price for a good product and also honour the developers for their efforts to create this amazing project.

Like I said in the beginning, the content is very unevenly distributed, I think the first volumes were made very attractive to increase interest, which then came at the expense of the later volumes…

But personally I see Flying Circus as a whole and I am not ready to waive any content from it even temporarily.

Also I see Great Battles as a whole including Flying Circus because it represents a timeline what a lot of historians call the “second 30 years war”, have in Flying Circus a seat in the fighter plane of the German Luftwaffe“s supreme commander of later modules, even though he probably wouldn't have fit into his old machine later 😜

 

Finally I have to say for me Flying Circus and Great Battles at all is a kind of gift and it’s worth every single cent I invested into it!!

No matter wich volume 😉

 

I hope that with the revision of the flight models from Albatros, Pfalz or Dr.1, this beautiful product will be given its finishing touches and become a masterpiece!!!

 

Developers, please don't make us wait too long for that 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

 

And by the way:

 

Especially the Volume IV planes are very nice detailed made  👍🏻

 

Just have a view on the trigger mechanisms of Pub or Strutter 😀

Edited November 21, 2024 by JG4_Moltke1871

[Avimimus]

Pros:

- The early war aircraft (Vol.III and Vol.IV) are the most interesting to fly, as they have the most unique flight characteristics and each one requires unique skills to master. I could write an extensive review about each aircraft - they are just that cool.

- I'm quite happy at the flight model revisions. They make a huge difference compared to Rise of Flight.

- The attention to detail on each aircraft is wonderful.
- Paris is also impressive.

 

Cons:

- Only seven aircraft (slightly less than the previous modules).

- The Airco D.H.2, Nieuport N.11, Halberstadt D.II and especially the Fokker E.III lack two-seaters that they can easily catch. We could have really done with an early version of the F.E.2 or a Caudron G.IV or something along those lines for the E.III to catch (would have made an excellent 8th aircraft).

- It would be really good if some of the new infantry technology from Korea could be ported back into this game engine.

 

Still pretty close to perfect... especially if you've never flown these aircraft before (or would like ones which are updated with new damage models and improved flight models over Rise of Flight).

[Flashy]

As Avimimus said - the early war aircraft are very interesting to fly and offer their own unique challenge, but there arent really any targets (B.E.2c, Aviatik C.1 and Caudron G3 or G4 are needed) for the early war planes to attack, so they are mostly only useful for fighter to fighter engagements at the moment. I havent had a chance to test out the FM revisions on the pup and dh2 yet (the RoF dh2 was a total dog which couldnt fight it's way out of a wet paper bag), so not sure if they are worth the asking price yet. Both the N28 FM revision and Paris are great, but you get that without buying Vol. IV..
 

 

If you love early war stuff (like me) then its a must buy, if for no other reason than to show the dev's there is a demand for more WW1 content (especially the early stuff) and hopefully motivate them to build some more early war machines to fill in the plane set.

Edited November 21, 2024 by Flashy

[Russkly]

Good input, guys, and thanks.

 

Is there anything in the game across all 4 modules that the E.III can engage on at least reasonably even terms?

 

Same question for the DH.2.

 

I ask, because I don't really fly 2-seaters (not interested in bombing stuff, and the photo recon and arty spotting missions are poorly done IMHO), so that leaves me the scouts for my careers.

 

So, FC4 offers 4 scouts (huzzah!) and 3 2-seaters (the 1 1/2 Strutters included in FC4 both did 2-seater jobs regardless of whether they had 1 or 2 crew).

 

If 2 of those scouts, i.e. DH.2 and E.III, can only really hope to fly 'fairly' against each other then for an SP player like me that only flies scout careers, I'm really only getting the Pup (yay!) and the D.III (yay!) for my USD64.

 

Not really sure what I'm going to do in an E.III or a DH.2.

 

Most of the air combat, esp. in 1916/17 was about taking the enemy's eyes out of the sky, so scout vs recon/bombers/arty spotting, etc. is pretty key to re-creating WW1 aerial warfare.

 

Apologies in advance if I've missed something here.

 

And btw I almost certainly will buy FC4 regardless of what it actually offers me personally, because I want 1CGS to consider that WW1 has a future once they've messed around with that Korea thing, And then the WW2 Pacific thing...

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

That's a lot of messing around.

[Russkly]

3 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

That's a lot of messing around.

 

Indeed!

Years of it...:)

[Trooper117]

27 minutes ago, Russkly said:

that Korea thing, And then the WW2 Pacific thing...

 

It will only have a distant future, and that will only be because a talented 3rd party get's to make a few of the much needed 2 seaters... 

[AOB]

If you are just looking for a reason to buy FC4 then the intro offer discount is it I reckon. I bought it this morning but I really do not fly FC that often but it is there if needed and I feel like my purchase is encouraging the devs.

[US103_Baer]

Was pleasantly surprised by the intro price. All the planes are iconic, the map has had work and there are a couple of fm fixes. What's not to like

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

Other reasons to buy FC4? Albatros D.III! Simply the most important and widespread german fighter of 1917!

Absurd that it was still missing, they filled a fundamental gap.

[giftgruen]

Will probably buy it to support the WW1 scenario, as soon as available at Steam.

 

However, I ask myslf a little .... why I do so.

Yes, planes and world / map are pretty and it's fun to fly.

 

However, AI issues, FM issues and Gamebalancing issues ( missing 2 seaters, missing storyline, missing 'love' ) leave me somewhat frustrated.

In the end I paid 300 bucks for a computer game that is nice for sure, but not really long-time-catching.

 

Instead of FC4 with some new planes and (probably) the same old issues, I'd prefer to pay my money ( and even more) for fixing the old and well known stuff.

 

 

 

[Flashy]

19 hours ago, Russkly said:

 

Is there anything in the game across all 4 modules that the E.III can engage on at least reasonably even terms?

 

Same question for the DH.2.

 

 

the E.III's main prey were slow, lumbering 2-seaters like the B.E.2c, and it operated in a time when there was very little on the allied side which could oppose it. In the context of this game, about the only thing it might be able to catch and shoot down is the F.E.2b..

The DH2 (if the FM review was successful) should be easily able to deal with the E.III, and even be a pretty decent match for the Halberstadt D.II and Albatross D.II if flown well..  so there are more options there for that plane.. but, again, no current German 2-seaters are slow enough to be caught by the DH2.

[Zooropa_Fly]

45 minutes ago, Flashy said:

and even be a pretty decent match for the Halberstadt D.II and Albatross D.II

 

In RoF the Halb could just about give a Camel a run for its money, the DH2 wasn't even close.

IRL obviously who knows, but I think you may be being a tad optimistic here !

[Flashy]

54 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

In RoF the Halb could just about give a Camel a run for its money, the DH2 wasn't even close.

IRL obviously who knows, but I think you may be being a tad optimistic here !

Well the DH2 in RoF was very broken.. it couldnt even out-turn the E.III when flown by human pilots (not AI),  hence why we have been asking for an FM review for more than 10 years.

But historically it certainly seems the DH2 was a pretty even match for the Albatross DII: The famous fight between Lanoe Hawker and Manfred Von Richthofen lasted as long as 30 minutes according to some sources, before Hawker tried to withdraw to his lines due to low fuel and was caught and shot down by MvR. To be able to fight a DII for that long, with neither pilot gaining much of an advantage over the other, suggests the DH2 and DII were quite closely matched when flown to their relative strengths.

[Russkly]

2 hours ago, Flashy said:

the E.III's main prey were slow, lumbering 2-seaters like the B.E.2c, and it operated in a time when there was very little on the allied side which could oppose it. In the context of this game, about the only thing it might be able to catch and shoot down is the F.E.2b..

The DH2 (if the FM review was successful) should be easily able to deal with the E.III, and even be a pretty decent match for the Halberstadt D.II and Albatross D.II if flown well..  so there are more options there for that plane.. but, again, no current German 2-seaters are slow enough to be caught by the DH2.

 

That was my concern re: the E.III - nothing for it to play with.

 

And it looks like the DH2 only really gets to play with the E.III (IRL it was outclassed by the Albatros D.I and Halberstadt D.II).

 

Iconic aircraft both, but odd inclusions if you don't give them anything to play with.

 

So that's two of the four scouts included in FC4 that are a little lacking in career options...

[Flashy]

9 minutes ago, Russkly said:

 

That was my concern re: the E.III - nothing for it to play with.

 

And it looks like the DH2 only really gets to play with the E.III (IRL it was outclassed by the Albatros D.I and Halberstadt D.II).

 

Iconic aircraft both, but odd inclusions if you don't give them anything to play with.

 

So that's two of the four scouts included in FC4 that are a little lacking in career options...

yeah.. we have been asking for early war two seaters since the beginning, but nothing has ever been built. Even AI versions would go a long way to helping flesh out career mode.. Its an unfortunate situation, because people probably wont buy into the early FC product, or fly the early war planes in online events if the gameplay isnt there, which then creates the impression that fewer people are interested in early war stuff.. but it could be just as much fun as the 1917/1918 planeset if it was complete..

[Trooper117]

11 hours ago, AOB said:

I feel like my purchase is encouraging the devs.

 

Well buy everything else mate and it just might encourage them enough to make some early two seaters!

[Russkly]

Seems that 1CGS may not have thought through the early war stuff very well.

 

Four scouts in FC4 of which only two (Pup & D.III) are really usable in careers due to the lack of targets for the older two (DH2 & E.III).

 

So, for those like me that only really fly scouts in career mode/PWCG, in effect we're getting two aircraft for our USD64.

 

Might just wait for it to go on Steam and then wait for a sale.

 

Who knows, perhaps by then, they'll have made some more FM refinements as well.

[Flashy]

4 hours ago, Russkly said:

Four scouts in FC4 of which only two (Pup & D.III) are really usable in careers due to the lack of targets for the older two (DH2 & E.III).

 

So, for those like me that only really fly scouts in career mode/PWCG, in effect we're getting two aircraft for our USD64.

Just to be clear, you can absolutely still fight DH2's and N11's with the E.III in single player/career mode because the AI is pretty dumb, so the E.III isnt totally useless in that regard. Similarly, the DH2 should be able to fight the E.III, Halb DII and Alb DII in career mode, so its mostly just the lack of two-seaters for early planes what is the real issue.

[Russkly]

5 minutes ago, Flashy said:

Just to be clear, you can absolutely still fight DH2's and N11's with the E.III in single player/career mode because the AI is pretty dumb, so the E.III isnt totally useless in that regard. Similarly, the DH2 should be able to fight the E.III, Halb DII and Alb DII in career mode, so its mostly just the lack of two-seaters for early planes what is the real issue.

 

Precisely, especially given that taking down 2-seaters was the primary role of scouts in that early period.

[Zooropa_Fly]

Perhaps the fact that the EIII and DH2 were in a 'class of their own', in RoF - they decided to even them out somewhat.

There was nothing between them (in RoF), so victory in a knife fight came down to whichever pilot used energy best.

Good training if nothing else.

 

And remember, as well as a simulator this is game - needs to be for a more general appeal.

So compromises have to be made here and there.

 

Yes an early war module would always have been great, but common perception was always that it would struggle to make money.

And no individual saying 'I'd buy it' on here is going to change that.. if in fact it's true !

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

49 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Perhaps the fact that the EIII and DH2 were in a 'class of their own', in RoF - they decided to even them out somewhat.

There was nothing between them (in RoF), so victory in a knife fight came down to whichever pilot used energy best.

Good training if nothing else.

 

And remember, as well as a simulator this is game - needs to be for a more general appeal.

So compromises have to be made here and there.

 

Yes an early war module would always have been great, but common perception was always that it would struggle to make money.

And no individual saying 'I'd buy it' on here is going to change that.. if in fact it's true !

I'd buy it...😉

[Nickkyboy99]

The price is too high. I know it's currently on sale, but its regular price is honestly baffling.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

3 minutes ago, Nickkyboy99 said:

The price is too high. I know it's currently on sale, but its regular price is honestly baffling.

Considering how many hours of enjoyment I've gotten from the various modules,  in terms of price per hour, it's a steal.  Honestly,  nothing else I do for fun, is this cheap.  A real bargain imo.

[Zooropa_Fly]

Two pouches of hand rolling tobacco costs me a good bit more than I just paid for FC IV.

[jollyjack]

2 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Two pouches of hand rolling tobacco costs me a good bit more than I just paid for FC IV.

 

I quit smoking before i bought IV ..

 

3 hours ago, Nickkyboy99 said:

The price is too high. I know it's currently on sale, but its regular price is honestly baffling.

 

We've got to contribute for the companies fleet of new Tesla vehicles supplied to the devs ....

Edited November 22, 2024 by jollyjack

[sallee]

One thing which is quite entertaining is that the AI pilots seem not to understand blip switches, which makes for fun runway starts at the beginning of a mission. Watch in amusement as your flight scream off at full throttle, careening around and crashing into each other and airfield buildings.

Not much love shown. I land in my 1 1/2 Strutter in 1916 and wonder why I can't have a go in those SE5as which line the airfield.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

3 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Two pouches of hand rolling tobacco costs me a good bit more than I just paid for FC IV.

Exactly.   3 large deluxe pizzas.  A tank of gas.  All things considered,  the price is quite fair imo.

[WWBiker_]

4 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Two pouches of hand rolling tobacco costs me a good bit more than I just paid for FC IV.

Not to mention other smoking materials.

[BladeMeister]

5 hours ago, RNAS10_Mitchell said:

I'd buy it...😉

Me to! Love to see a Parasol and Caudron G4.

😁

 

S!Blade<><

[Zooropa_Fly]

2 hours ago, WWBiker_ said:

Not to mention other smoking materials.

 

Yeah man lighter fluid costs a bomb.

[Dagwoodyt]

I bought FC 1 when it was on sale years ago and haven't used it much. Found it not as exciting as I'd hoped. Not sure about FC IV. Might try FC 2 when on sale, just for the Sopwith Tripe. How is the Tripe FM?

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I bought FC 1 when it was on sale years ago and haven't used it much. Found it not as exciting as I'd hoped. Not sure about FC IV. Might try FC 2 when on sale, just for the Sopwith Tripe. How is the Tripe FM?

I like the tripe.  It's my 2nd favorite aircraft currently,  but I think the pup is gonna give it a run for the money in that special spot.

[AOB]

On 11/22/2024 at 11:01 PM, Trooper117 said:

 

Well buy everything else mate and it just might encourage them enough to make some early two seaters!

Would that I could.