Great Battles Future

[Ribbon]

17 minutes ago, BOO said:

I didnt say dont do it nor did I use that argument as an excuse not to.

 

I pointed out than once something is done once its done and any variation on a theme falls into the same trap. Save for carrier landings and torpedo runs which will soon become as routine as GA is now isnt the PTO just the same basic concept? What could you have them do to avoid any risk of copy paste after the Pacific?  Korea? isnt that just the same with jets? Vietnam, same again but faster? Star wars? 

 

I understand the copy/paste thing too. Rhineland is my least favorite map. Im not too enthused about BON either. Late war aviation also isnt my thing.  I get it and Id like to see PTO as well. I agreed its a new dimesion to the game.  But I understand they had to do something whilst they couldnt do PTO in oder to survive. On order that we stand a chance of PTO when they could. As a customer/gamer I sooner this than nothing.  

 

Before BOBP the Devs via Jason Williams clearly stated that the Pacific was beyond them at the time for various reasons. It was also implied that something needed to happen to produce sales prior to Kuban. I dont need to pretend to be an armchair Dev to read what is posted in the forums by the devs and producers and understand it. 

 

You have every right to express your opinion. And I mine. You also have ever right to call my comments stupid. And I yours. 

My reply was not intended to call you stupid or insult you in any way, just the excuse for not adding new gameplay is stupid imo.

If the excuse in my opinion is stupid it doesn't mean person who said it is stupid nor i think that way of you.

 

Same for the armchair dev, i did not called you armchair dev i just stated that i won't pretend to be armchair dev and rather give feedback as a pure customer and a gemer.

15 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

And pacific would add torpedo runs - but unless you play a torpedo bomber it will be dogfights, bombing or strafing runs too.

 

What I find most interesting about pacific theatre are the dogfights in Zeros. I personally would propably fly 3-5 topedo attacvks and then I'd be back to dogfighting and dive bombing. PTO is still WWII air combat after all...

Torpedos, carrier takoffs/landings, navigation, ship sinking, new enviroment...etc.

It's not just torpedos!

It will give me variety to play pto as a fighter, torpedo bomber or dive bomber than ETO with everything we have so far....picking a role/gameplay and enviroment would be much larger.

I prefer that in every game not just il2

[ITAF_Rani]

Ok maybe Pacific...and now a bit of fantasy....what IF devs implement the possibility controlling carriers ????......could be so cool navigating and waiting your friends landing....

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by ITAF_Rani

[354thFG_Panda_]

3 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Ok maybe Pacific...and now a bit of fantasy....what IF devs implement the possibility controlling carriers ????......could be so cool navigating and waiting your friends landing....

 

Or trolling them by changing direction on approach 

[AndyJWest]

I don't think navigating an aircraft carrier in IL-2 GB would be that interesting. At least, not doing it in real time. Unless you are doing something really stupid, you'll be spending almost all your time going in straight lines across an empty ocean. 

[ITAF_Rani]

21 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

I don't think navigating an aircraft carrier in IL-2 GB would be that interesting. At least, not doing it in real time. Unless you are doing something really stupid, you'll be spending almost all your time going in straight lines across an empty ocean. 

No if you have to hide yourself because a wing of enemy planes is looking for you and greeting you with bombs..

[Eisenfaustus]

1 minute ago, ITAF_Rani said:

No if you have to hide yourself because a wing of enemy planes is looking for you and greeting you with bombs..

I think you have a very World-of-warshippy idea of naval combat.

[AndyJWest]

7 minutes ago, ITAF_Rani said:

No if you have to hide yourself because a wing of enemy planes is looking for you and greeting you with bombs..

 

Hide where? Sounding the Klaxon and screaming 'Dive! Dive! Schnell! Schnell!' doesn't achieve much in an aircraft carrier. ?

[ITAF_Rani]

I mean the carriers are probaly the target of a mission..planes stay to defend and others to attak the enemy carriers....hiding could be performed sailing in routes not known to the enemy....consider also plane have to watch to his fuel if don t wanto go in to drink....

But stay quite...mine is simply an idea to add suspance to the sim..

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Hide where? Sounding the Klaxon and screaming 'Dive! Dive! Schnell! Schnell!' doesn't achieve much in an aircraft carrier. ?

Depending on the accuracy and bomb load of the enemy aircraft, carriers can be quite adept at crash dives.

[DD_Arthur]

I must say I completely agree with =VARP=Ribbon.

This series does need a new direction from the rinse and repeat of tactical ground attack and/or dogfighting.

 

Carriers? In VR? Bring it on!!

Ideally the Pacific but naval aviation off the coast of southern Italy would be a great place to start too.

[Enceladus828]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:47 PM, JG300_Egon said:

And somebody already said that MTO could bring the CVs (UK), so implementing that functionnality without too much pressure.

 

18 hours ago, FliegerAD said:

Bringing carriers to another scenario than the PTO is a risky move, but a worthwile one if you ask me. Allied carrier planes in the MTO and the North Sea provide some very interesting match-ups and missions.

Personally, I feel that carrier tech should be developed in the PTO first before doing it in the MTO. A Pacific battle would be more profitable than an MTO battle and you could include a carrier battle in a land (or mostly land) based battle such as Guadalcanal + Coral Sea. That way people who want carrier battles get them and the Pilot Career isn't spent mainly flying over an open ocean encountering the enemy only once in a while.

 

To begin with, a lot of people don't really know much about the MTO, and quite likely any significant carrier involvement there, so this wouldn't be as profitable as the PTO, late war Western front, and late war Eastern Front. The title would literally have to say "IL-2 Battle of Malta (with aircraft carriers)" if carriers for this game were added in the MTO than PTO -- and it would be very risky to not include carriers in a Malta installment.

 

That's just my opinion on this

[Bremspropeller]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

Hide where? Sounding the Klaxon and screaming 'Dive! Dive! Schnell! Schnell!' doesn't achieve much in an aircraft carrier. ?

 

It's not "Dive! Dive! Schnell! Schnell!", it's

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Bremspropeller

[IckyATLAS]

I wonder if Jason has already made his mind about what happens after BON. Anyway at least for us it is a strategic secret well kept. 

I suppose there will be what he would love to do, but finally what he will be able to afford to do.

Very interesting conflict. I do not know if he once mentioned in a post or in an interview what would be his dream battle to do, or maybe it is done already?

 

[[CPT]Crunch]

I'd figure the mass formation riddle and heavy bomber questions need to be solved and implemented first.  Zero point in developing a task force if you can't even use it's air wings.

[MisterSmith]

2 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I wonder if Jason has already made his mind about what happens after BON. Anyway at least for us it is a strategic secret well kept. 

I suppose there will be what he would love to do, but finally what he will be able to afford to do.

Very interesting conflict. I do not know if he once mentioned in a post or in an interview what would be his dream battle to do, or maybe it is done already?

 

 

I think it is well documented, the Pacific is Jason's passion but you are correct. Outside of some Top Secret Ultra hardened shelter of a boardroom, it is unknown where we head next. Even among trusted friends and associates.

[Lusekofte]

I hope for something else than latest packs 

If keeping on late war in Europe it need to be Naval.  Beufighters and Mossie Norwegian fjords , seaplanes and late war bombers. Preferably PTO ofcource. 

In my mind jungle would be new, at least a jungle and PTO coastline with flyable Japanese and allied bombers. I do with IJA planes. It do not have to be IJN. And sea planes. Even a Kingfisher if nothing else

 

[DD_Arthur]

4 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I wonder if Jason has already made his mind about what happens after BON. Anyway at least for us it is a strategic secret well kept. 

I suppose there will be what he would love to do, but finally what he will be able to afford to do.

 

I have no idea of how it works but I would imagine this is a decision made in concert by 1CGS.  The publisher, the producer and of course the team all have to have an input on what is realistically achievable within certain constraints.

 

Equally important is what motivates the team?   How often have we seen updates or hotfixes appear when Han and his collegues are online at three in the morning Moscow time?  Theres some dedicated effort and enthusiasm that goes into making this sim thats just as important as budgets, timescales and data. 

 

One thing I've learnt during Covid;  Microsoft Teams Meetings are a massive pain in the arse an excersize in frustration.  They have my sympathy

 

[SOLIDKREATE]

I once stated a couple years ago that the Battle of Berlin would be a nice close out. 

[Jackfraser24]

If I wanted to find out what aircraft fought where, where should I go? I know you have Battle of X or Operation Y when you look up Something like Operation Husky Order of Battle on Wikipedia, where it shows what planes and squadrons were used in the Invasion of Sicily. But sometimes, when you want to find out what the exact type of planes that were used, Order of Battle pages from Wikipedia aren’t specific on what variant/sub-variants were used there, or they neglect to reveal that information altogether. My guess is that 1CGS gets their resources from non virtual sources like museums and archives. But if they do have some virtual sources and if anybody knows what they are, could you send me some web-links that’s not Wikipedia, please?

Thanks for reading.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

If I wanted to find out what aircraft fought where, where should I go? I know you have Battle of X or Operation Y when you look up Something like Operation Husky Order of Battle on Wikipedia, where it shows what planes and squadrons were used in the Invasion of Sicily. But sometimes, when you want to find out what the exact type of planes that were used, Order of Battle pages from Wikipedia aren’t specific on what variant/sub-variants were used there, or they neglect to reveal that information altogether. My guess is that 1CGS gets their resources from non virtual sources like museums and archives. But if they do have some virtual sources and if anybody knows what they are, could you send me some web-links that’s not Wikipedia, please?

Thanks for reading.

Well, you could google based on what you find on the Wikipedia page. For example, for Operation Husky, suppose you want to know more about No. 73 Squadron RAF, which is the first squadron on the Wikipedia page. If you google for "No. 73 Squadron RAF", the second hit will be this page, which shows that it converted to the Spitfire Vc just prior to the Battle of Sicily.

 

But I must ask, if you don't mind. Whence the interest in the exact sub-types? Often, there were various sub-types in use even within a squadron, and equally often the differences between types are minimal at best.

[Eisenfaustus]

7 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Well, you could google based on what you find on the Wikipedia page. For example, for Operation Husky, suppose you want to know more about No. 73 Squadron RAF, which is the first squadron on the Wikipedia page. If you google for "No. 73 Squadron RAF", the second hit will be this page, which shows that it converted to the Spitfire Vc just prior to the Battle of Sicily.

 

But I must ask, if you don't mind. Whence the interest in the exact sub-types? Often, there were various sub-types in use even within a squadron, and equally often the differences between types are minimal at best.

He is probably trying to deduct which scenarios are possible with a 5v5 setup based on still unpublished subtypes. 

But @Jackfraser24 please remember: Not all subtypes make sense from a player perspective AND not all subtypes that flew in a campaign did. so in relevant numbers. 

[BMA_FlyingShark]

Personally, I'm not too concerned with what theater we will get.

I'll buy it anyway, Eastern Front, Mediterranean, Pacific, more Western Europe, it's all fine for me and they can't make everything at once.

Same goes for planes, I like 'em all and you can only fly one at a time.

I'm more wondering what features we will get like continuing development of fuel management and droptanks, maybe more planes will get realistic autopilot like the latest 2, more navigation options, more hydraulics damage modelling,... .

 

Have a nice day.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by FlyingShark

[CountZero]

Checked new BoN map and it is only in summer version, so now im even more sure next DLC is Channel 43, they probably save autum, winter spring versions of map for that.

[BMA_FlyingShark]

3 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Checked new BoN map and it is only in summer version, so now im even more sure next DLC is Channel 43, they probably save autum, winter spring versions of map for that.

Honestly, that would be a good idea I think.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

48 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Checked new BoN map and it is only in summer version, so now im even more sure next DLC is Channel 43, they probably save autum, winter spring versions of map for that.

Channel 1943 is just not going to happen:

- There's a lack of well-known or high-intensity air battles that can be used as a selling point. There would be a number of those for 1942 (Dieppe, Channel dash, Baedecker Blitz), but we've already got a reasonable planeset for 1942.

- The only difference in the map would be the textures. This would leave a part of their workforce (i.e. the map artists) without a job while disproportionately requiring texture editing efforts.

- Chances are there'll be a community-made autumn/winter mod anyhow at some point.

- The aircraft would mainly be minor variations on aircraft we've already got.

- Overall I think a map that's very similar to what we already have and aircraft of which we already have earlier and later versions is not different enough to be commercially attractive. The hard-core IL2 players like us would probably buy it anyhow, but what does it offer the average Joe beyond what he already has?

 

My money is still on Sicily 1943, although I don't discount the possibility they'll do a Pacific module after all, perhaps with some compromises.

[CountZero]

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Channel 1943 is just not going to happen:

- There's a lack of well-known or high-intensity air battles that can be used as a selling point. There would be a number of those for 1942 (Dieppe, Channel dash, Baedecker Blitz), but we've already got a reasonable planeset for 1942.

- The only difference in the map would be the textures. This would leave a part of their workforce (i.e. the map artists) without a job while disproportionately requiring texture editing efforts.

- Chances are there'll be a community-made autumn/winter mod anyhow at some point.

- The aircraft would mainly be minor variations on aircraft we've already got.

- Overall I think a map that's very similar to what we already have and aircraft of which we already have earlier and later versions is not different enough to be commercially attractive. The hard-core IL2 players like us would probably buy it anyhow, but what does it offer the average Joe beyond what he already has?

 

My money is still on Sicily 1943, although I don't discount the possibility they'll do a Pacific module after all, perhaps with some compromises.

190A6, 109G6, P-51B, P-47D10, ju-88C ... airplanes like ones we have... didnt stop normandy.

Exactly because they can just reuse bon map i expect its next, they can just make it like first bon map proposal, that didnt go south of paris and went more to east.

Sicily 43 would be my 2nd choice after Midway but i doubt they will go and do another hard to make map + all new italian airplanes when they can just do Channal map again and add same airplanes they would add in sicily.

Airplanes that can be used for BoN and BobP. And on top you can make B-25 and B-26 human controled and dont have to make them collectable that no one would buy as this is fighters player game. Channel 40-41-42 timeline is reserved for clod, so 43 is only one left.

Channel 43 with for example Spit 9c, P-38G, B-25, B-26, Beaufighter and 109G5, 190A4, Ju-87D5, Ju-188 and Do-217 is easyer job to do then Sicily 43 where you have to do harder job for map and totaly new buildings, mutch more varaity in terain then any map in game and you have to deal with adding Italian airplanes, after almost 3 year job BoN was, i think they gona chose something easyer that can be done in 2 year time insted another hard project Sicily or italy would be.

BoN map with only summer, they selected Spit XIV bubble as training project for colectable insted 9c that is more important and can be used in SP and MP more, and still no anouncment of B-25 or 26 collectable, makes me belive its channel 43, they planed to save them for that.

Edited September 8, 2022 by CountZero

[Alexmarine]

The Channel battles don't really needs a full release, just collector planes (maybe even bundled together). A full price tag for a module like that would be hard to justify.

 

If the Pacific is still impossible to do, early wars scenarios are financially unjustified and the eastern front 1945 finale is a no-go, give me a Sicily-Malta 1942/43 module with at least 3-4 italian planes (and not just them being the three series-5 fighters) and I'll go back to gladly preorder modules. All other cases will keep me "interested but not overly excited"

[AEthelraedUnraed]

7 hours ago, CountZero said:

190A6, 109G6, P-51B, P-47D10, ju-88C ... airplanes like ones we have... didnt stop normandy.

But Normandy is popular enough in itself so that it doesn't need widely different airplanes. Literally everyone knows about Normandy, and has seen at least one of several movies (Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Longest day, etc.). What do you know about Channel 1943, much less the average Joe? Channel 1943 just doesn't interest people; they know too little about it and for the same price they can get exactly the same map that does have a famous battle.

 

Now I admit that most people won't know much about Sicily 1943 either. But at least the area is interesting and appealing. Stunning terrain, warm beaches, Italian architecture, palm trees, pizza, beautiful Italian women, Don Corleone... Not all applicable to a combat flight sim, true, but people know about it and it attacts them.

 

You have a wrong view of what about map editing costs the most time. The terrain is actually the cheapest thing; they buy the data from Google Maps or some other external party, as you can see from e.g. the forest map on Rheinland exactly matching existing maps, including its errors. What is costly is creating towns and airfields. The population of Sicily in 1943 is similar to that of just the French part of the Normandy map, with the English part again similar. So in total that should mean about half the effort for creating towns and villages. Regarding airfields, Forgottenairfields.com lists 10 airfields on Sicily while Malta (an essential part of any Sicily module) has another eight. That's less than a fifth of the 100 airfields they created for BoN.

 

Spoiler

As a side note, I dabbled with terrain editing just to see what's possible and to learn more about how the terrain system works. Creating the following map of Malta took me an afternoon, probably; not much more. Once I figured out how everything worked, it was suprisingly easy.

I obviously couldn't get it into the game as heightmaps are locked, but I did try with the Lapino heightmap which kinda worked if you stayed high enough to not notice the water surface had hills:

 

But if they're gonna re-use the BoN map like you think, what do you propose they do with their map artists? Fire them? Good luck getting them back on board for a next BoX module when you will need to create a new map. They've already got the workforce and experience to create maps; why not use it now?

 

8 hours ago, CountZero said:

Airplanes that can be used for BoN and BobP. And on top you can make B-25 and B-26 human controled and dont have to make them collectable that no one would buy as this is fighters player game. Channel 40-41-42 timeline is reserved for clod, so 43 is only one left.

Channel 43 with for example Spit 9c, P-38G, B-25, B-26, Beaufighter

All of those aircraft also fought at Sicily, except the P-38 of which only photo-recon versions were used.

 

But I'm willing to do a bet. I buy you a pre-order collector plane/tank if it is Channel 1943, you buy me one if it's Sicily. Nothing happens if it's something else. What do you say?

[sevenless]

Yes interesting times ahead. If they can´t do Pacific, Sicily 1943 (Operation Husky) or Eastfront 44/45 (Endgame of the Reich) are the most likely IMHO. I´d buy each of them in a heartbeat. Wouldn´t mind a 1943 "Leaning across the Channel" model either. Let´s see. I guess we all will learn soon before the end of the year.

[ITAF_Rani]

Around the end of November probably....

[Bell]

My perference:Japanese aircraft first,Italian aircraft second,Soviet aircraft third.

[Ala13_UnopaUno_VR]

[DBFlyguy]

1 hour ago, Ala13_UnopaUno_VR said:

IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Malta does have a nice ring to it ? If we still have to wait for the pacific.... I'd be satisfied with a Malta or similar area being next, this would also provide an opportunity for some carrier ops FINALLY

[357th_KW]

Malta is an awesome choice for a number of reasons:

 

Combat over Sicily and Malta lasted from mid 1940 through mid 1943.  There’s a ton of potential material to work with there.

 

The Italians were heavily involved, giving the opportunity to feature a whole new Air Force.  Aircraft like the CR42, G50, MC200, and BR20 saw service on in other relevant theaters as well (channel or eastern front), and so they add content to our existing BoX entries.

 

The RAF didn’t just play defense - the whole reason Malta was being attacked was because of the threat it posed to Axis shipping and ports.  Aircraft like the Swordfish, Sunderland, Blenheim, Wellington and Beaufighter all played an important role here.  And again, many of the critical RAF planes saw service in other theaters.

The Luftwaffe was heavily involved - many of our existing German planes played a big part here and would slot in nicely.  It also gives an opportunity to add some critical variants like early 110Cs or Ju87B/Rs that also apply to other theaters.

 

Anti-shipping attacks and naval forces played a big role here.  While it’s still a primarily land-based campaign, this provides a big opportunity to improve the naval aspects of the game and adding torpedos would be a given.

[CountZero]

21 minutes ago, 357th_KW said:

Malta is an awesome choice for a number of reasons:

 

Combat over Sicily and Malta lasted from mid 1940 through mid 1943.  There’s a ton of potential material to work with there.

 

The Italians were heavily involved, giving the opportunity to feature a whole new Air Force.  Aircraft like the CR42, G50, MC200, and BR20 saw service on in other relevant theaters as well (channel or eastern front), and so they add content to our existing BoX entries.

 

The RAF didn’t just play defense - the whole reason Malta was being attacked was because of the threat it posed to Axis shipping and ports.  Aircraft like the Swordfish, Sunderland, Blenheim, Wellington and Beaufighter all played an important role here.  And again, many of the critical RAF planes saw service in other theaters.

The Luftwaffe was heavily involved - many of our existing German planes played a big part here and would slot in nicely.  It also gives an opportunity to add some critical variants like early 110Cs or Ju87B/Rs that also apply to other theaters.

 

Anti-shipping attacks and naval forces played a big role here.  While it’s still a primarily land-based campaign, this provides a big opportunity to improve the naval aspects of the game and adding torpedos would be a given.

And thats why Sicily + Malta map is best if no PTO, but i just dont see them doing it, also i highly doubt they would do early period, it would be 43 timeline, but when you have map, and we have most airplanes for early battles, that dont mather mutch, we just need map of the area to start, like its with BoN map, you can do early battles as yu have some airplanes.

I just cant see them doint it, its to hard option when you consider other easyer dlc after bon. 

[Alexmarine]

The only "easier" full module I can imagine is a 1945 EF one, the team has plenty of experience in both the planes and the map for such an endeavour but you have been adamant that it's not going to happen because [insert here current geopolitical events]. Going for another full module about the channel can be only justified if they go all the way back to the BoB (it doesn't get easier than that); 1942/43 can be served by collector's planes. The MTO is as easier as it gets while featuring 2 axis nations, 2 allied nations and enough new planes/visuals to get people's interest.

[sevenless]

Tunisia, Sicily, Malta and southern Italy would make the perfect area of operations...

Map from: Striking at the Allied Advance - Air War Publications

Edited September 8, 2022 by sevenless

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I am very excited about the next expansion. Aeronaval battles with carriers and torpedoes is my preference, PTO or Malta would do. I hope they make a wise choice, a lot at stake.

[RNAS10_Mitchell]

FC3

 

[Jackfraser24]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:42 AM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Channel 1943 is just not going to happen:

- There's a lack of well-known or high-intensity air battles that can be used as a selling point. There would be a number of those for 1942 (Dieppe, Channel dash, Baedecker Blitz), but we've already got a reasonable planeset for 1942.

- The only difference in the map would be the textures. This would leave a part of their workforce (i.e. the map artists) without a job while disproportionately requiring texture editing efforts.

- Chances are there'll be a community-made autumn/winter mod anyhow at some point.

- The aircraft would mainly be minor variations on aircraft we've already got.

- Overall I think a map that's very similar to what we already have and aircraft of which we already have earlier and later versions is not different enough to be commercially attractive. The hard-core IL2 players like us would probably buy it anyhow, but what does it offer the average Joe beyond what he already has?

 

My money is still on Sicily 1943, although I don't discount the possibility they'll do a Pacific module after all, perhaps with some compromises.

My money's on the Battle Berlin or Battle of Balaton in Hungary. The latter was where the Axis made their last major (ish) offensive into Soviet lines.