Great Battles Future

[sevenless]

4 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Its chanel 1943, no pto, no med, no east front... more 109+190 and spitfires, map just need small adjustments and you can add B-25 and B-26 but human controled.

 

I concur. And if it is 1943 they hopefully start thinking about Lancaster and Mossie Mk IV/XVI. No big formation flying needed for them in dusk or dawn. I want some cookies...

 

[Alexmarine]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

 no pto, no med, no east front...

 

Add no sale for me 

[Calos_01]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Its chanel 1943, no pto, no med, no east front... more 109+190 and spitfires, map just need small adjustments and you can add B-25 and B-26 but human controled.

this one.......and spitfires of course 

 

[Harlequin]

I can't see them breaking the current format of each "battle of" having a new map, and the 8 + 2 planes for collectors editions etc.   So my own personal opinion would make a channel 43 map unlikely as the next edition.  I get where you're coming from though with the planeset.

 

Just struggling to see where the big draw for people would be given that theyve ticked a lot of the boxes off in the western Europe planeset.  Getting into bombers hasn't been a focus for this series, and in 2 yrs they'll be up against microproses b17 reboot. So perhaps unlikely that they'll focus there.  A b25/26 maybe.  Mosquito with bombsite I think could appear somewhere along the line, yes.

 

I can't really think of a scenario that would fit with bodenplatte and Normandy as well as those 2 work.  There's also the idea of a balance between 3 east and 3 west modules but no idea if the Devs have that in mind.   

 

[Enceladus828]

18 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

I also think any plans Team Fusion have for Il-2 COD's next expansion (if they have any) will influence what they do next.

Team Fusion does have plans for another installment for CloD/IL-2 Dover series: TF 6.0. All we know about it is that it will continue into 1942 and the main map will be something new and appealing to players. An announcement of what aircraft, ships and exact timeframe and exactly where it will be is ready, 1C just has to make the announcement (1C Company, not 1CGS).

 

My guess is Malta based on what's been told to us.

 

I don't believe that whatever TFS does has any influence on where the next IL-2 GBs installment will be as they were able to do Normandy despite there already being the Channel Map in CloD. However, there won't be an IL-2 GBs Battle of Britain nor North Africa (let alone based around Tobruk) as to get the elephant out of the room, many people would be continuously going back to the Dover series version to fly planes or do things not in the GBs version.

 

Any Battle covered in this game is based on feasibility and profitability

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Team Fusion does have plans for another installment for CloD/IL-2 Dover series: TF 6.0. All we know about it is that it will continue into 1942 and the main map will be something new and appealing to players. An announcement of what aircraft, ships and exact timeframe and exactly where it will be is ready, 1C just has to make the announcement (1C Company, not 1CGS).

 

My guess is Malta based on what's been told to us.

 

I don't believe that whatever TFS does has any influence on where the next IL-2 GBs installment will be as they were able to do Normandy despite there already being the Channel Map in CloD. However, there won't be an IL-2 GBs Battle of Britain nor North Africa (let alone based around Tobruk) as to get the elephant out of the room, many people would be continuously going back to the Dover series version to fly planes or do things not in the GBs version.

 

Any Battle covered in this game is based on feasibility and profitability

I doubt its Malta, its probably 1942 channel stuff and El Alamein map, it makes sence chronologically. 

5 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

I concur. And if it is 1943 they hopefully start thinking about Lancaster and Mossie Mk IV/XVI. No big formation flying needed for them in dusk or dawn. I want some cookies...

 

its Beaufighter more likely to be in allied 5, Spit 9, P-38G, and B-25 and 26.

3 hours ago, cosg_Paul said:

I can't see them breaking the current format of each "battle of" having a new map, and the 8 + 2 planes for collectors editions etc.   So my own personal opinion would make a channel 43 map unlikely as the next edition.  I get where you're coming from though with the planeset.

 

Just struggling to see where the big draw for people would be given that theyve ticked a lot of the boxes off in the western Europe planeset.  Getting into bombers hasn't been a focus for this series, and in 2 yrs they'll be up against microproses b17 reboot. So perhaps unlikely that they'll focus there.  A b25/26 maybe.  Mosquito with bombsite I think could appear somewhere along the line, yes.

 

I can't really think of a scenario that would fit with bodenplatte and Normandy as well as those 2 work.  There's also the idea of a balance between 3 east and 3 west modules but no idea if the Devs have that in mind.   

 

Its hard to belive they are gona ditch 5v5 model, so then when you look at map sizes and available airplanes you are left with small options, Channel 43 easy fast and west front, east front 45 poland easy fast and finish east front, something in italy aka sicily invasion 43 but like with bon include only small ships dont do big ones... pto or big bomber and big maps are fantasy.

And for me when i look at thouse 3, channel 43 is only realistic option when you have war now that makes east front risky, and axis players need 109+190 combo and who knows how popular would italian stuff be.

Edited August 18, 2022 by CountZero

[357th_KW]

Western Front 1943 would be a disaster unless you built it around night-fighting - near identical map, with slight variants of planes we already have.  I’m sure many of us (myself included) would enjoy it, but the average consumer would be struggling to figure out why they’d pay $80 to have a slightly different Spitfire or P-47.

The franchise needs to branch out from Germany vs the USSR/US/UK.  We need to change the scenery and the cast of characters to get people excited again.  Malta or Sicily would be good.  Greece, Finland, France or Spain could work.  PTO would be best if it can be done - something like the Solomons would be ideal, with a whole new set of aircraft we’ve never seen before, in a completely different environment.

[PatrickAWlson]

Battle of France 1940

Hurricane Mk 1
Dewoitine D.520
Bloch MB.152
Bristol Blenheim (used by both British and French)
Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406

 

Me109 E4
Me110 C
Ju87 B
Do 17

Henschel Hs 123

 

Spitfire MK I and Fiat CR.42 are later offered as a collector planes

 

[sevenless]

15 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Battle of France 1940

Hurricane Mk 1
Dewoitine D.520
Bloch MB.152
Bristol Blenheim (used by both British and French)
Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406

 

Me109 E4
Me110 C
Ju87 B
Do 17

Henschel Hs 123

 

Spitfire MK I and Fiat CR.42 are later offered as a collector planes

 

 

Only problem I see without incuding the Battle of Britain timeframe is the pure fact that the Battle of France lasted only for aprox. 6 weeks from 10 May – 25 June 1940. 

 

Advantage of such a setting (including Battle of Britain) is, that you can have air battles on that map for more than four years from 10/05/1940 until 01/09/1944.

[Eisenfaustus]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Battle of France 1940

Hurricane Mk 1
Dewoitine D.520
Bloch MB.152
Bristol Blenheim (used by both British and French)
Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406

 

Me109 E4
Me110 C
Ju87 B
Do 17

Henschel Hs 123

 

Spitfire MK I and Fiat CR.42 are later offered as a collector planes

 

Yes please!

Only alteration in the planeset:

109 E3 instead of E4 - E4 became more common during BoB

Hawk 75 instead of D520 - as sexy as the D520 is, the Hawk flew in far more number during BoF

 

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

Only problem I see without incuding the Battle of Britain timeframe is the pure fact that the Battle of France lasted only for aprox. 6 weeks from 10 May – 25 June 1940. 

Not if you include the Phoney war - then it's 9 months ^^

[PatrickAWlson]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

Only problem I see without incuding the Battle of Britain timeframe is the pure fact that the Battle of France lasted only for aprox. 6 weeks from 10 May – 25 June 1940. 

 

Advantage of such a setting (including Battle of Britain) is, that you can have air battles on that map for more than four years from 10/05/1940 until 01/09/1944.

 

If everything that I posted actually came to pass I would model the phony war and BoB as well using the Normandy map.  I have never strictly adhered to actual positions.  My front line movements have the general shape of real movements, and the timeline is correct, but I take all sorts of liberties to extend the timeline while trying to keep the feel of the period.

[sevenless]

1 minute ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Not if you include the Phoney war - then it's 9 months ^^

 

True, but it wasn´t called "drole de guerre" for nothing. Even french occupation of the german Saar district didn´t trigger any severe hostilities. I doubt it is suitable for attracting customers.

[PatrickAWlson]

12 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Yes please!

Only alteration in the planeset:

109 E3 instead of E4 - E4 became more common during BoB

Hawk 75 instead of D520 - as sexy as the D520 is, the Hawk flew in far more number during BoF

 

Not if you include the Phoney war - then it's 9 months ^^

 

The E3 would be fine.  The E7 could stand in for the E4 as they were basically the same plane.

I would keep the D.520 as it was the best French fighter if the time.  The Bloch and MS would represent the more common ones.  If I wanted to include the Hawk I would take one of those out before the D.520.  

[sevenless]

11 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

If everything that I posted actually came to pass I would model the phony war and BoB as well using the Normandy map.  I have never strictly adhered to actual positions.  My front line movements have the general shape of real movements, and the timeline is correct, but I take all sorts of liberties to extend the timeline while trying to keep the feel of the period.

 

I concur, but I have my doubts about the commercial possibilities of such a module setting. To clarify, I mean doubts about a pre Battle of Britain module with only Phoney war and Battle of France from say 09/1939 - 6/1940. Even if we exclude the fact that the CloD game exists for a second, I just don´t see that attracting significant amounts of customers. However, I guess we might learn in the next months about their further plans for this series. So many nice options.

Edited August 18, 2022 by sevenless

[DBFlyguy]

Probably best to leave Battle of Britain to CloD for several reasons....post Battle of Britain, maybe around the Dieppe timeframe would be cool though.

 

 

[PatrickAWlson]

17 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

I concur, but I have my doubts about the commercial possibilities of such a module setting. To clarify, I mean doubts about a pre Battle of Britain module with only Phoney war and Battle of France from say 09/1939 - 6/1940. Even if we exclude the fact that the CloD game exists for a second, I just don´t see that attracting significant amounts of customers. However, I guess we might learn in the next months about their further plans for this series. So many nice options.

 

I'm not sure how many big market opportunities they have left in the west.  I would not call Italy, North Africa, Malta, or any of those as big sellers.  Being a Russian company they might turn back to the eastern front for Bagration or Berlin.  That might leave western audiences cold but it would make a lot of sense since the east stops cold in 1944.

4 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

Probably best to leave Battle of Britain to CloD for several reasons....post Battle of Britain, maybe around the Dieppe timeframe would be cool though.

 

 

 

Planes ... most of them have already been made.  I already plan to go all the way back to 1941 with the Normandy map because we have so many of the necessary planes.

[sevenless]

18 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I would not call Italy, North Africa, Malta, or any of those as big sellers.  Being a Russian company they might turn back to the eastern front for Bagration or Berlin.  That might leave western audiences cold but it would make a lot of sense since the east stops cold in 1944.

 

Having followed them for a few years now and their 5+5 planes and map concept, my bet is on either 1943 Sicily around Operation Husky with Tunisia, Malta, Sicily and south of Italy on the map or indeed a Goetterdaemmerung module 44/45 on the eastfront. But my guess is as good as that from anyone else. Would love to see the western front from 1940-1944 in its entirety covered somehow in the future though and of course Battle of France integrated there. Lets see what the future brings to us.

[CountZero]

21 hours ago, 357th_KW said:

Western Front 1943 would be a disaster unless you built it around night-fighting - near identical map, with slight variants of planes we already have.  I’m sure many of us (myself included) would enjoy it, but the average consumer would be struggling to figure out why they’d pay $80 to have a slightly different Spitfire or P-47.

The franchise needs to branch out from Germany vs the USSR/US/UK.  We need to change the scenery and the cast of characters to get people excited again.  Malta or Sicily would be good.  Greece, Finland, France or Spain could work.  PTO would be best if it can be done - something like the Solomons would be ideal, with a whole new set of aircraft we’ve never seen before, in a completely different environment.

Ill probably skip it also, but thats the only option i see feasable... to me its clear as it was clear they are doing Churchill when they were saying they plan new collector tanks, then i knew it can only be churchill and that it was terible choice, but that doesent change the fact that was only tank they could make with restricions they set. So if you look at restricions they have for DLCs, only logical option is channal 43 set.

[DBFlyguy]

2 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

Being a Russian company they might turn back to the eastern front for Bagration or Berlin.  That might leave western audiences cold but it would make a lot of sense since the east stops cold in 1944.

 

 

 

This is literally the one area I wouldn't spend a penny on.  Africa, Italy, Med, Early Western Front, Mid Western Front,  PTO ....all good, I would happily buy! anything else related to the eastern front ? NOPE.

[Avimimus]

Battle of Britain has traditionally been common for flight-sims. I could see them tempted to do that (in spite of Cliffs of Dover). However, they'd probably have to model London (and they've been avoiding big cities).

 

There is also a chance of a pacific land-based module. It would require a lot of new assets, but it wouldn't require carriers, and it'd probably sell well. It might require guesswork for some of the Japanese aircraft though, and possible hiring someone to do CFD on them.

 

I think the likeliest possibility is a return to the East with either Leningrad, or a '45 East scenario... the team has a bunch of Russian speakers on it, and easy access to some preserved Russian aircraft... it'd also fit well with the late war German aircraft already developed. I might bet on that one if I had to. I'd personally be hoping for a Ju-188, He-162, and maybe a Fi-156 artillery spotter as part of that (plus the Russian aircraft - many of which I miss).

 

I think Italy 1944 is a bit less likely but still within the realm of possibility, as is a 1948 or 1950s European Cold War scenario (prior to 1955 anyway - the avionics become too complicated after that). I do wonder if the tech used for the Me-410's rear gunner and for the infantry squads might find another use... but I won't speculate further on that, in order to not get  people's hopes up.

 

 

  

48 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

This is literally the one area I wouldn't spend a penny on.  Africa, Italy, Med, Early Western Front, Mid Western Front,  PTO ....all good, I would happily buy! anything else related to the eastern front ? NOPE.

 

I'd be tempted to refuse to buy the Pacific in response - but, you know what? I've grown out of that! To me, its all good... really lovely experiences and high fidelity... I've finally ascended to being zen about this stuff (after twenty years of not being). Honestly, I wasn't that into BoBP (and it took me a while to purchase it), but it was still worthwhile.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

I think the likeliest possibility is a return to the East with either Leningrad, or a '45 East scenario... 

There is absolutely no chance of another early, or even mid, war east front module.  Even late war is problematic at the moment for obvious reasons.

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Planes ... most of them have already been made.  I already plan to go all the way back to 1941 with the Normandy map because we have so many of the necessary planes.

 

For 1942 at least... still, could do with some variants if we wanted to be truly correct - an early Spit IXc, an early Tempest, a FW-190A4/U18, a Mustang I, a Do-217E, Boston III... 

 

But I'm looking forward to seeing the Spit-Vb fighting the Fw-190A3 and Bf-109F over the Channel... and the A-20 sort-of works as a Boston III  It'll be fun. I still kind-of want some of the others though (I can't believe that I actually want another Mustang But I've been converted. Same goes for the Fw-190A4 being tempting. The Do-217E is the biggest missing piece of the puzzle though).

 

 

  

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

There is absolutely no chance of another early, or even mid, war east front module.  Even late war is problematic at the moment for obvious reasons.

 

Not obvious to me? There are a bunch of missing aircraft that could be in a Leningrad module and flesh out all the mid-war modules (Pe-3, FW-189, Fw-190A4, Ju-87D-5, P-39Q etc.) and a late-war module could include some popular aircraft (Fw-190A9, Yak-3, Bf-109G10, La-7, Ju-188, Tu-2, Fi-156 etc.) The team can also read Russian and can easily go to the Moscow aviation museum and various archives without much travel. Either module would be relatively easy for them to do. I don't see any problems.

[DBFlyguy]

8 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

 

I'd be tempted to refuse to buy the Pacific in response - but, you know what? I've grown out of that! To me, its all good... really lovely experiences and high fidelity... I've finally ascended to being zen about this stuff (after twenty years of not being). Honestly, I wasn't that into BoBP (and it took me a while to purchase it), but it was still worthwhile.

We don't have the Pacific... so kinda confused on how you refuse to buy it in response ?

 

Regardless, folks can support whatever they want, or not support it.  I don't owe any corporation my money just "to support the devs".  If its something of interest, I'll get it, if its not, I won't. eastern front for several reasons... does not interest me in the slightest, but to each their own ?

[BraveSirRobin]

9 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Not obvious to me? 

Jason made it pretty clear when BoBP was announced that the early war east front modules had been a financial failure.  If BoBP was not a success they were probably done.   It doesn’t matter what aircraft are missing or how easy it is for their staff to get aircraft info.  If they go early east again it will be the end of this franchise.

[Avimimus]

6 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Battle of France 1940

Hurricane Mk 1
Dewoitine D.520
Bloch MB.152
Bristol Blenheim (used by both British and French)
Morane-Saulnier M.S. 406

 

Me109 E4
Me110 C
Ju87 B
Do 17

Henschel Hs 123

 

Spitfire MK I and Fiat CR.42 are later offered as a collector planes

 

I feel like this list ought to have a few amendments:

 

1) Replace the D.520 with the Curtiss H-75C (it was much more numerous during the actual battle)

 

2) Include the Potez 63.11 (& possibly the Potez 630) as French two-seaters. The 63.11 was the most numerous version though (a replica has also been built from original blueprints).

 

3) The Lioré et Olivier LeO 451 might also be popular, and could possibly replace the Blenheim (if enough data can be found).

 

The Amiot 451 (or another old French bomber) and the Fairey Battle would make much needed AI aircraft.

 

The Bréguet 691 might compete with the CR.42 as a collector's aircraft.

 

My thoughts here (albeit assuming the Cliffs of Dover planeset):

 

As for me, I'd like a Dewoitine D.510, open cockpit, fixed gear, but a 20mm cannon in the spinner! 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Avimimus

[PatrickAWlson]

10 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

There is absolutely no chance of another early, or even mid, war east front module.  Even late war is problematic at the moment for obvious reasons.

 

I have a hard time imaging that too.  If they go eastern front I would guess Bagration or Berlin.

[Avimimus]

13 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

There is absolutely no chance of another early, or even mid, war east front module.  Even late war is problematic at the moment for obvious reasons.

 

2 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I have a hard time imaging that too.  If they go eastern front I would guess Bagration or Berlin.

 

Well BoS, BoM, and BoK sold well enough to keep the series going (albeit only BoM is truly early war). I'm sure they sold less than BoBP or BoN - but if they limit the scope for the module and have ways to further limit the budget if necessary (or if the consumer base has increased) they could return to this at some point.

Leningrad also is a mid-war module (going up until 1944) and 1945 East is a late war module.

 

 

IMHO, if they want to keep the series going they'd eventually have to do both... Think about it - if each module is 2.5 years then Battle of France, Battle of Britain, Battle of New Guinea, Battle of Italy... would all be complete by 2030... throw in an early Cold War scenario, and even a Korean module and that takes you to 2035... so they maybe have six modules they can do prior to having to return to the East. Some of these might not be feasible (Battle of France, New Guinea) but could be replaced by a Battle of Midway (if they got the refs) or a North African module... and the result is still the same by 2035.

:) Assuming they don't retire anyway.

 

P.S. Heck, by 2040 they'd probably have to give us an 'Isonzo to the Gulf of Venice' WWI scenario! Which is essentially the holy grail of WWI flight sims... the ultimate pinnacle that could be reached. We just have to keep them in business long enough and they'll have to make everything.

[BraveSirRobin]

54 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Well BoS, BoM, and BoK sold well enough to keep the series going (albeit only BoM is truly early war). 

No, they didn’t. That’s why they went full late Western Uber planes with BoBP.  Jason made it pretty clear that they needed a lot more revenue or the franchise was toast.  

[Enceladus828]

45 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

No, they didn’t.

You're being pessimistic about this. BoS has a collection of great aircraft and is why most people have said in the past to start off with BoS. BoM and BoK gave us planes that Western markets would be quite familiar with: Kittyhawk, P-39, A-20, and the Spitfire Mk.Vb

 

If by late 2017 the devs were barely making any profits then they would have packed up then or done places with smaller maps and a reduced planeset to cut their costs, but as Avimimus stated, this trilogy may not have sold as much as BoBP and BoN have, but sold well enough to keep the series going to BoBP.

 

A Bagration installment (early 1944 to late summer 1944) or a Berlin installment (Autumn 1944 to May 1945) would bring in late war planes -- hopefully another Soviet bomber -- and possibly another Western bomber like B-17, B-24, Lancaster, or a flyable B-25 or B-26 (as a separate collector) for Berlin -- could also continue where BoBP left off.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Enceladus

[BraveSirRobin]

Late East front will definitely happen at some point.  Although current events have probably  made that more difficult.  Early/Mid East front is definitely not happening.  

Edited August 19, 2022 by BraveSirRobin

[Docholiday]

For me Northern Europe (Norway) or the mediteranian would be good new theaters.   A channel map with new Planes (B-25, A-20G, Beaufighters, Beaufort  etc)  would be a seller too in my opinion.

 

Together with some new features: torpedoes, new damage mechanics of ships, In my opinion, it would be a good for all the single player (perhaps some multiplayers too) !

 

Of course these scenarios would need some twomot planes.  I think we do not need the 5th or 6th variant of a single engine fighter we already have in the game.   The most multiplayer fighter pilots do anyway only use the late war überplanes !!

 

A pacific scenario I would buy too !    But I am not sure with another eastern front map.  They are great peaces of work but With the exception of the Kuban-Map I do not fly them often !

 

Cheers   

 

Doc

Edited August 19, 2022 by Docholiday

[CountZero]

4 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

 

Well BoS, BoM, and BoK sold well enough to keep the series going (albeit only BoM is truly early war). I'm sure they sold less than BoBP or BoN - but if they limit the scope for the module and have ways to further limit the budget if necessary (or if the consumer base has increased) they could return to this at some point.

Leningrad also is a mid-war module (going up until 1944) and 1945 East is a late war module.

 

 

IMHO, if they want to keep the series going they'd eventually have to do both... Think about it - if each module is 2.5 years then Battle of France, Battle of Britain, Battle of New Guinea, Battle of Italy... would all be complete by 2030... throw in an early Cold War scenario, and even a Korean module and that takes you to 2035... so they maybe have six modules they can do prior to having to return to the East. Some of these might not be feasible (Battle of France, New Guinea) but could be replaced by a Battle of Midway (if they got the refs) or a North African module... and the result is still the same by 2035.

:) Assuming they don't retire anyway.

 

P.S. Heck, by 2040 they'd probably have to give us an 'Isonzo to the Gulf of Venice' WWI scenario! Which is essentially the holy grail of WWI flight sims... the ultimate pinnacle that could be reached. We just have to keep them in business long enough and they'll have to make everything.

Leningrad DLC cant happend, no 5v5 airplanes.

Only east front DLC that can happend is Poland 45, it is only area that can have 109g10 190a9 ta-152h... this is 3 fighter airplanes that are important for DLC to sell at any rate, other 7 are not so important as for vvs side you can fined airplanes to fill 5, german fighters are dictating where you can go and what you can do, also like BSR say early east front is not gona happend, BoM was poorly accepted.

Before the war late 45 east front was best bet, now its only crazy mans choice to think ppl would buy DLC about soviet liberating europe.

[Avimimus]

37 minutes ago, CountZero said:

Leningrad DLC cant happend, no 5v5 airplanes.

 

What makes you say this? One can use any aircraft in service from 1941 to 1944... and also include Finnish aircraft. There is definitely the possibility of doing 6v6 or even 7v7 in this theatre! Including more than four fighters on each side!

 

For the Axis you get:

Fw-190A4

Bf-109G variant (possibly)

One or more of the Finnish fighters (D.XXI, Brewster Buffalo, MS.406, G.50 or even the Gloster Gladiator)

Ju-188 or Do-217

Ju-87D-5

Fw-189 or Fi-156

 

For the Allies you get:

P-39Q

Yak-9B or Yak-9D (or another Yak-7 variant)

P-40C/B

I-153

Tu-2 or Il-4 or SB-2 bombers or Yak-4

A-20G (they were used against Finland) or Pe-3

 

...and this is leaving out some early aircraft (e.g. Finnish Blenheims)!

 

 

 

  

4 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

No, they didn’t. That’s why they went full late Western Uber planes with BoBP.  Jason made it pretty clear that they needed a lot more revenue or the franchise was toast.  

 

Are you sure that isn't with respect to them expanding to do Flying Circus, BoBP, and Tank Crew simultaneously? My impression from his posts was that Tank Crew and Flying Circus were taking longer to recover their costs. Apparently sales for Flying Circus just took a while to accumulate, since he later announced Flying Circus volumes 2 & 3 would be produced... which shows some confidences - as it is basically announcing two modules in succession.

 

He also made a comment about the early war Russian front not being profitable enough to be worth pursuing at this point as well. But that doesn't mean that Battle of Moscow didn't break even... it just means that they don't view another module like it as being particularly profitable.

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

Before the war late 45 east front was best bet, now its only crazy mans choice to think ppl would buy DLC about soviet liberating europe.

 

I am pretty sure most existing and potential consumers of this game are intellectually able to differentiate between Soviets of 1945 fame and Russians of 2022.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

 

He also made a comment about the early war Russian front not being profitable enough to be worth pursuing at this point as well. But that doesn't mean that Battle of Moscow didn't break even... it just means that they don't view another module like it as being particularly profitable.

 

Lol.  It means that there won't be any more early East modules.  They need to do better than break even.

[Avimimus]

10 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Lol.  It means that there won't be any more early East modules.  They need to do better than break even.

 

Not necessarily that much more though.

 

Computer game publishers usually aim to have very high profit ratios because they know that many of the games they fund won't turn a profit (but the few that do, often do extremely well).

 

However, the BoX team has a lot of data on what modules (and collector planes) have sold well in the past, which means they can probably predict sales reasonably well. They also have a certain portion of their fanbase which is pretty loyal to the series... which means they don't need to worry as much about publicity or timing releases as developers making a one-off game do.

 

These factors mean that they can probably accept a lower predicted profit ratio on at least some of their products. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case with the C-47/Li-2, the Flying Circus collector aircraft, the collector tanks and the IAR-80/81. These aren't as popular vehicles, the profits are likely being split more ways, etc. However, if they do turn enough of a profit to make it worthwhile it is still doable. It also likely allows them to test interest in additional Tank Crew and Flying Circus products.

 

[simfan2015]

Indeed BraveSirRobin,  since they need to do better than brake even a lot of options that were regularly discussed here might simply be off the table!? 

Even PTO,  so compelling for US customers,  might be less tempting in other parts of the world. 

I have no (valid)  idea about what theatre may come next. 

 

 

[BraveSirRobin]

1 minute ago, Avimimus said:

 

Not necessarily that much more though.

 

 

If you want to believe that early East is still an option, go for it.

3 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

Indeed BraveSirRobin,  since they need to do better than brake even a lot of options that were regularly discussed here might simply be off the table!? 

 

 

Yeah, a lot of the stuff discussed here is pure fantasy.  Most of it will never happen. 

 

PTO is definitely not fantasy from a marketing standpoint.  Wildcats, Hellcats, Corsairs and Zeros would absolutely sell big.  The only question is whether they would sell without carriers.

[sevenless]

41 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Wildcats, Hellcats, Corsairs and Zeros would absolutely sell big.  The only question is whether they would sell without carriers.

 

If they ever decide to go down that road I wish them more luck than Pacific Fighters had back in the days.

 

 

[Avimimus]

It also may have a bit less appeal internationally. Commonwealth, Americans, and Russians all fought Germany... whereas most Pacific flight-sims leave out the Commonwealth parts of the theatre - so it ends up being purely Japan vs. the United States - with no relevance to Europe or to other former British colonies.

 

I was actually much more interested in North Africa growing up - as the local libraries actually had some books on it... whereas the Pacific carrier battles I only really learned about through a Battlefields documentary and short descriptions in books that covered a much larger subject matter (Thinking of one book - I was more impressed by the Taranto raid's than I was by Midway).

 

So one has >300 million Americans... but the market isn't guaranteed to be as enthusiastic internationally. IMHO, they've now covered the European theatre enough (especially if they do '45 East) that it'd be quite an exciting holiday to do New Guinea or something like that. I'm sure that it'd be more popular now than it was a few years ago... I know I'm much keener on the idea these days.

 

One of the podcasts interviews of third party devs (Magnitude 3 perhaps?) has some speculation that the availability of computational fluid dynamics on home computers could be used to fill in some of the gaps in flight-model information these days... so who knows? Things might change.