Great Battles Future

[Enceladus828]

7 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Great, then hopefully the next GB module is in North Africa.   Because there are absolutely no game engine issues that would prevent BoNA.  

Well it wouldn’t be very profitable since there already is IL-2 Desert Wings-Tobruk

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 4/28/2022 at 9:15 PM, Enceladus said:

A Battle of Sicily IMO can work. But as I've stated before in this thread, the game engine can't handle large amounts of ships and planes [...], so it therefore it wouldn't be worth doing Malta in this game.

Well first of all, Malta is more than just Pedestal. In the year-and-a-half or so leading up to Pedestal and the couple of months after it, there was lots of small-scale action, including the low-level ground attacks that IL2 excels at. Yes, some of these attacks had large amounts of aircraft (up to around 50 bombers, not including escorts and interceptors, although something like 10 Stukas and a couple of escorts seems to have been more common as an attacking force) but that's nothing that can't be compromised on. Bodenplatte had similarly high numbers of aicraft and we've got that in game, haven't we?

  

On 4/28/2022 at 9:15 PM, Enceladus said:

there were over 70 carrier-borne aircraft and hundreds of Axis aircraft in Operation Pedestal

Not at one time though Most of the individual attack waves had perhaps 10-20 bombers (although there are extremes on both sides, from as low as 5 to as high as 58, both including escort fighters). Again, nothing that can't be compromised on.

 

Regardless, I don't think Malta should be a module in itself. However, if a Sicily module were to be made, it would be relatively cheap to extend the map south to include Malta since much of the area is sea. As some of the aircraft involved in Operation Husky flew from Malta, it would fit a Sicily campaign anyhow.

Edited May 2, 2022 by AEthelraedUnraed

[Jackfraser24]

4 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Well first of all, Malta is more than just Pedestal. In the year-and-a-half or so leading up to Pedestal and the couple of months after it, there was lots of small-scale action, including the low-level ground attacks that IL2 excels at. Yes, some of these attacks had large amounts of aircraft (up to around 50 bombers, not including escorts and interceptors, although something like 10 Stukas and a couple of escorts seems to have been more common as an attacking force) but that's nothing that can't be compromised on. Bodenplatte had similarly high numbers of aicraft and we've got that in game, haven't we?

  

Not at one time though Most of the individual attack waves had perhaps 10-20 bombers (although there are extremes on both sides, from as low as 5 to as high as 58, both including escort fighters). Again, nothing that can't be compromised on.

 

Regardless, I don't think Malta should be a module in itself. However, if a Sicily module were to be made, it would be relatively cheap to extend the map south to include Malta since much of the area is sea. As some of the aircraft involved in Operation Husky flew from Malta, it would fit a Sicily campaign anyhow.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think Jason Williams mentioned something about looking into a mid war MTO scenario, in years to come…

Edited May 2, 2022 by Jackfraser24

[DD_Arthur]

4 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Well it wouldn’t be very profitable since there already is IL-2 Desert Wings-Tobruk

 

CLoD would seem to all intent and purposes.....

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/754530

 

D.O.A.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

6 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Well it wouldn’t be very profitable since there already is IL-2 Desert Wings-Tobruk

Sorry, but that’s just silly.  They would almost certainly be far better than the Tobruk sales.

[Monty_Thrud]

Maybe possibly it would be released as a Collectors map or Tank Crew, with it having much lower furniture than all the other maps.

[Enceladus828]

30 minutes ago, Monty_Thrud said:

Maybe possibly it would be released as a Collectors map or Tank Crew, with it having much lower furniture than all the other maps.

Exactly! If the devs do a Battle of El Alamein TC installment then that can bring North Africa to IL-2 GBs without overlapping with the IL-2 Dover series.

 

46 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Sorry, but that’s just silly.  They would almost certainly be far better than the Tobruk sales.

If an IL-2 GBs Tobruk would do far better than DW-T then the devs would have gone there right after BoK, but since wasn't the case it looks like doing Tobruk/North Africa would be far less profitable than Bodenplatte and Normandy.

 

Anyway guys, how about we just be glad that somebody decided to even go to North Africa/MTO as we never really got that in IL-2 1946 nor in any other sim (except for arcade games) and it wasn't until TD got in there did we somewhat get a depiction of the MTO but we never got Tunisia, Malta, nor Italy. The last time somebody tried to make a proper depiction of the Desert War was way back in 1999 by Sierra Dynamix, Desert Fighters, and that never even got released. As for the other MTO areas, AFAIK nobody has even tried going there (save for WT and Mods but that doesn't count).

 

While we don't have the MTO in IL-2 GBs, how about we just be glad what the devs have given us and are still able to continue giving us content. The Me-410, B-26, Spitfire Mk.XIV, Ju-88C-6, and Typhoon were never even in IL-2 1946 and we never got a proper depiction of D-Day and the Battle of the Rhineland. 

[BraveSirRobin]

43 minutes ago, Enceladus said:

If an IL-2 GBs Tobruk would do far better than DW-T then the devs would have gone there right after BoK,

 

 

No, they wouldn't.  It has nothing to do with revenue.  They have an agreement to not infringe on TF's turf.  That's why a lot of us want Clod to go away.

[AndyJWest]

3 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

They have an agreement to not infringe on TF's turf. 

 

Is there an actual source for this? I don't recall seeing any.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Is there an actual source for this? I don't recall seeing any.

I don’t think anything official has been announced, but I think that Jason has somewhat hinted at it.

 

If there is no agreement, then I’d love to see GB release a North Africa module.  And I think it would be quite likely, given that PTO seems less likely.

[FliegerAD]

There does not need to be an agreement, just common sense... both sims are niche products. Il2 GB may be the better seller, but it is still a niche product. You don't want to lose any sales, however small, just because a part of the target audience does not want to have two titles with roughly the same scenario.

Before you say it: I agree that most people here would probably buy both anyway. But there might be a small part of the consumer base who would not.

 

Why risk it when there are other scenarios available?

Also, the Mediterranean Sea is big. Northern Italy, Southern France, Balkans, even the eastern Med would not touch North Africa. And there are some quite interesting options here, too:

Operation Dragoon would see naval fighters like the Hellcat, in Italy we could see the Apache (which I would love to fly!), and the Balkans is basically a giant free-for-all including Soviets, western Allies, Germans, Croats, BAF...

 

I would still prefer the Battle of Courland, though.

 

[Jackfraser24]

Hi. I don’t want to get caught up in the crossfire between who thinks Tobruk would have been better off being a Great Battles module, and who thinks that Team Fusion had already done a good job with it, but I want to say something. 

Not one person will live a life where we are ultimately satisfied and content     with everything we experience and encounter. But we adapt and habitualize to these imperfections, and they become normal, and sometimes can even become incorporated into our views of perfectionism. 
 

This relates to players because when we are introduced to IL-2 we either start with 1946, Cliffs of Dover or Great Battles. We become familiar and accustomed to factors like modelling and texturing and the detail level of the plane (interior and exterior) and other vehicles/ships, the damage model, or the feel of how the plane flies in general. However, when we play another IL-2 series, we can sense a range of differences, which could be slightly or extremely different. Some like it, some don’t mind it, and some don’t like it. That’s okay, you don’t have to like it or play it. But if we accept the differences, and we don’t let them turn us off from playing, we might like what the other series has to offer us. And that becomes normal for us when we decide to play it regularly.
 

Maybe the Great Battles and Cliffs of Dover series can help each other by compensating for each other’s limitations. I think both are great but both have lots of room for improvement. A limitation for Great Battles is that the engine it runs on causes the game to struggle to produce large numbers of planes and ships in a given area over a given period. And CloD planes, map environments and buildings modelling and texturing might only be halfway between 1946 and Great Battles on an evolutionary scale, but they could fill in for scenarios that Great Battles would struggle to make. 
 

CloD could cover 

• Malta 1940-42
• Southern France 1944
• Kursk
• The Philippine Sea
• Leyte Gulf
• China
• Burma
• Northern France/Low countries 1939-40
• Coral Sea
• Norway
• Greece and Crete

Great Battles could potentially cover

• El Alamein 
• Tunisia 
• Sicily and mainland Italy 
• Slovakia 1944-45
• Vistula to the Oder offensive 1944-45
• Guadalcanal
• Midway (because that is part of their original plan)
• Solomon Islands
• New Guinea
• Okinawa 
• Finland

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Jackfraser24

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Hi. I don’t want to get caught up in the crossfire between who thinks Tobruk would have been better off being a Great Battles module, and who thinks that Team Fusion had already done a good job with it, but I want to say something. 

Not one person will live a life where we are ultimately satisfied and content     with everything we experience and encounter. But we adapt and habitualize to these imperfections, and they become normal, and sometimes can even become incorporated into our views of perfectionism. 
 

This relates to players because when we are introduced to IL-2 we either start with 1946, Cliffs of Dover or Great Battles. We become familiar and accustomed to factors like modelling and texturing and the detail level of the plane (interior and exterior) and other vehicles/ships, the damage model, or the feel of how the plane flies in general. However, when we play another IL-2 series, we can sense a range of differences, which could be slightly or extremely different. Some like it, some don’t mind it, and some don’t like it. That’s okay, you don’t have to like it or play it. But if we accept the differences, and we don’t let them turn us off from playing, we might like what the other series has to offer us. And that becomes normal for us when we decide to play it regularly.
 

Maybe the Great Battles and Cliffs of Dover series can help each other by compensating for each other’s limitations. I think both are great but both have lots of room for improvement. A limitation for Great Battles is that the engine it runs on causes the game to struggle to produce large numbers of planes and ships in a given area over a given period. And CloD planes, map environments and buildings modelling and texturing might only be halfway between 1946 and Great Battles on an evolutionary scale, but they could fill in for scenarios that Great Battles would struggle to make. 
 

CloD could cover 

• Malta 1940-42
• Southern France 1944
• Kursk
• The Philippine Sea
• Leyte Gulf
• China
• Burma
• Northern France/Low countries 1939-40
• Coral Sea
• Norway
• Greece and Crete

 

GB has already done Kursk.  And the rest of that list is 100 years worth of work for TF.  They are a part-time team.

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Hi. I don’t want to get caught up in the crossfire between who thinks Tobruk would have been better off being a Great Battles module, and who thinks that Team Fusion had already done a good job with it, but I want to say something. 

Not one person will live a life where we are ultimately satisfied and content     with everything we experience and encounter. But we adapt and habitualize to these imperfections, and they become normal, and sometimes can even become incorporated into our views of perfectionism. 
 

This relates to players because when we are introduced to IL-2 we either start with 1946, Cliffs of Dover or Great Battles. We become familiar and accustomed to factors like modelling and texturing and the detail level of the plane (interior and exterior) and other vehicles/ships, the damage model, or the feel of how the plane flies in general. However, when we play another IL-2 series, we can sense a range of differences, which could be slightly or extremely different. Some like it, some don’t mind it, and some don’t like it. That’s okay, you don’t have to like it or play it. But if we accept the differences, and we don’t let them turn us off from playing, we might like what the other series has to offer us. And that becomes normal for us when we decide to play it regularly.
 

Maybe the Great Battles and Cliffs of Dover series can help each other by compensating for each other’s limitations. I think both are great but both have lots of room for improvement. A limitation for Great Battles is that the engine it runs on causes the game to struggle to produce large numbers of planes and ships in a given area over a given period. And CloD planes, map environments and buildings modelling and texturing might only be halfway between 1946 and Great Battles on an evolutionary scale, but they could fill in for scenarios that Great Battles would struggle to make. 
 

CloD could cover 

• Malta 1940-42
• Southern France 1944
• Kursk
• The Philippine Sea
• Leyte Gulf
• China
• Burma
• Northern France/Low countries 1939-40
• Coral Sea
• Norway
• Greece and Crete

Great Battles could potentially cover

• El Alamein 
• Tunisia 
• Sicily and mainland Italy 
• Slovakia 1944-45
• Vistula to the Oder offensive 1944-45
• Guadalcanal
• Midway (because that is part of their original plan)
• Solomon Islands
• New Guinea
• Okinawa 
• Finland

 

El Alamian is next logical step for Clod to do, and expanding channal plansets into 42, no way BoX would do Africa if they give green light to TF6.

 

Aks some of the proposals make no sence as you would not have any proper airplanes for them to get 5v5 GB have.

[Alexmarine]

6 hours ago, CountZero said:

El Alamian is next logical step for Clod to do, and expanding channal plansets into 42

 

Doubting they'll go back to El Alamein when their plane set already leaned more into late 1942 than 1940/41. At best they'll go toward Tunisia for early 1943 and to introduce both the FW190 and some other allied fighter to catch more interests

[Mavi_IT]

23 hours ago, Enceladus said:

Esattamente! Se gli sviluppatori realizzano una puntata di Battle of El Alamein TC, ciò può portare il Nord Africa a IL-2 GB senza sovrapporsi alla serie IL-2 Dover.

 

Se un IL-2 GB Tobruk avrebbe fatto molto meglio di DW-T, gli sviluppatori sarebbero andati lì subito dopo BoK, ma poiché non era il caso, sembra che fare Tobruk/Nord Africa sarebbe molto meno redditizio di Bodenplatte e Normandia .

 

Comunque ragazzi, che ne dite di essere contenti che qualcuno abbia deciso di andare anche in Nord Africa/MTO dato che non l'abbiamo mai ottenuto in IL-2 1946 né in nessun'altra sim (tranne per i giochi arcade) e non è stato fino a quando TD non ha ottenuto lì abbiamo in qualche modo  ottenuto una rappresentazione dell'MTO ma non abbiamo mai avuto Tunisia, Malta o Italia. L'ultima volta che qualcuno ha cercato di fare una rappresentazione adeguata della Guerra del deserto è stato nel lontano 1999 da Sierra Dynamix,  Desert Fighters,  e non è mai stato pubblicato. Per quanto riguarda le altre aree MTO, AFAIK nessuno ha nemmeno provato ad andarci (tranne WT e Mods ma questo non conta).

 

Anche se non abbiamo l'MTO in IL-2 GB, che ne dici di essere contenti di ciò che gli sviluppatori ci hanno dato e sono ancora in grado di continuare a darci contenuti. Il Me-410, B-26, Spitfire Mk.XIV, Ju-88C-6 e Typhoon non sono mai stati nemmeno in IL-2 1946 e non abbiamo mai avuto una rappresentazione adeguata del D-Day e della battaglia della Renania. 

I'm sorry if I've been misunderstood. I don't hate the other simulator. I wish it a great development, but there are a lot of bugs right now and the desert map is (in my opinion) lagging behind current standards. Unfortunately, these elements mean that the online community is frequented by few players. I would simply find the scenery of Malta and Sicily fantastic, especially if made with the quality that IL2-BOS has accustomed us to.

Ciao!

[Jackfraser24]

1 hour ago, Ma_vi said:

I'm sorry if I've been misunderstood. I don't hate the other simulator. I wish it a great development, but there are a lot of bugs right now and the desert map is (in my opinion) lagging behind current standards. Unfortunately, these elements mean that the online community is frequented by few players. I would simply find the scenery of Malta and Sicily fantastic, especially if made with the quality that IL2-BOS has accustomed us to.

Ciao!

The Cliffs of Dover series has come far, but still has a long way to go, in terms of improvement.

[Mavi_IT]

9 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said:

La serie Cliffs of Dover è arrivata lontano, ma ha ancora molta strada da fare, in termini di miglioramento.

At the moment their canal map is the best ever. I would very much like the scenario of North Africa, where my grandfather fought the war, but for the moment I think it needs great improvements.

[Jackfraser24]

Could 1C still do a late Eastern Front scenario despite what is going on right now in Ukraine? I just thought that doing it might not be appropriate, especially if it is in 1943-44 Ukraine. Maybe not so much in 1944-45 Slovakia (Carpathian Offensive), Hungary, Poland and Eastern Germany. However, I’d recommend going to the Mediterranean for several reasons.

• It might unintentionally come across as offensive to some or heavy hearted at a time like this.
• New Planes. I have heard from the team that its hard to research Italian planes. However, if it can be done, flying them would be an awesome experience. Planes like the Macchi 200/202/205, Fiat G.55, Reggiane Re.2002/2005, and SM.79/84 and 82 would be a delight to fly.
• New terrain. Italian maps may have been covered in arcade games and slightly more realistic simulators War Thunder, but not like IL-2 (or DCS). Italy would be cool to fly in, because it’s terrain is notably different to all the current maps in terms of geography and environment. 
• Lots of people want the Med to be done. A post Normandy poll shows that most want to go to the Pacific but the developers can’t go there right now. The most popular vote outside the Pacific is Italy. IL-2 could go to places like Sicily, Anzio and Monte Cassino, where thousands of aircraft were present. 
   

Edited May 5, 2022 by Jackfraser24

[Jackfraser24]

Another thing that the development team could do is France (1939-1940). This has been suggested a lot by many, but just hear me out.
 

After Flying Circus Vol.3 is completed, the only other places the development team could go would be Italy, Southeastern Britain or the Eastern Front. Otherwise, all they could do is keep releasing collector planes for the Western front from 1914 to 1918. 
 

The Battle of Britain will most likely never be covered by the Great Battles series. A lot of people still want early war planes.

 

The Western Front between September 1939 and 1940 could be split into smaller sections, since it probably would be too big and too expensive to do one big map. They’ve already covered most of the Low Countries and parts of the Ardenne in Battle of Bodenplatte.

 

Players would be able to fly in pre Battle of Britain in small and large scale air operations. They would be able to fly for Germany, or for France, The Netherlands, Belgium and Britain. 

 

There would be a lot of different early war aircraft to fly in like the M.S 406, Bf 109 E-1/3/4, Fokker D.XXI and the Curtiss hawk. Lots of collector planes would follow as well.

 

So what I’m saying is piecing a 1939-40 Western Front together would create an opportunity for the development team to add in early war planes and missions.

 

Thank you
 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Jackfraser24

[Vishnu]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:19 PM, Alexmarine said:

 

Where we do sign up?

Ahhh yes.   The plane with the coffee maker reflective gunsight.  Kills Germans and makes lattes. 

[Guest deleted@219798]

The roots of IL-2 always was the Eastern Front. Why not Barbarossa and a later map than Kuban? I bought the original IL-2 and BoX to fly Soviet planes, now it seems like with the last release Bodenplatte and now Normandy it's all about British and American planes. Plenty of scope for early and late VVS planes. No La-7 or Yak-3.

[Eisenfaustus]

On 5/11/2022 at 7:13 AM, kestrel444x500 said:

Why not Barbarossa and a later map than Kuban?

Barbarossa doesn’t make sense because neither is there an axis planeset with relevant fighters nor is there a suitable map due to the high speed of the German advance. Barbarossa was halted at Moscow - and that map we have. 
 

Late Eastern front is a module that was actually quite likely - yet in the English speaking forum there is more interest in an theatre with Anglo-American participation.

[BraveSirRobin]

5 hours ago, kestrel444x500 said:

The roots of IL-2 always was the Eastern Front. Why not Barbarossa and a later map than Kuban? 

 
The franchise barely survived 2 modules of crappy early VVS aircraft.  It’s unlikely that they’ll do that again.

[Guest deleted@219798]

3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 
The franchise barely survived 2 modules of crappy early VVS aircraft.  It’s unlikely that they’ll do that again.

Well those crappy planes fly fairly well. I manage to do okay flying them. Crap planes that's your opinion.

[=621=Samikatz]

If you want early war Soviet aircraft your best bet is Finland, probably.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, kestrel444x500 said:

Well those crappy planes fly fairly well. I manage to do okay flying them. Crap planes that's your opinion.

Regardless, not enough people wanted to buy them.  So they’re probably not going to be making any more of them.

[352ndOscar]

Before we talk about what’s next, how about we fix what we got…… just saying what we all want.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, 352ndOscar said:

… just saying what we all want.

No, you’re really not.  Adding new features does not have to wait until other issues are fixed.

[ROCKET_KNUT]

5 hours ago, 352ndOscar said:

Before we talk about what’s next, how about we fix what we got...

I´m afraid, new customers will be drawn in rather by new tits over shoes, that fit so she can walk properly. ? 

[ITAF_Rani]

Go to the MED..

 

 

[Alexmarine]

1 hour ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Go to the MED..

 

 

 

As long as the axis planes set is not:

 

-Single high performance Italian fighter

 

-4x German planes already in the game but with desert filters slapped on

 

[AndytotheD]

On 5/13/2022 at 10:15 PM, Jackfraser24 said:

At this stage, I believe the Med seems like the most likely option since the Invasion of Ukraine has happened (unstable political situation) and if a Pacific scenario was next, there would be strong rumors or even teaser images going around.

Why would that be the case? Did they tease the move to the Western Front long before the initial announcement of BoBP?

[CountZero]

On 5/15/2022 at 1:33 PM, Alexmarine said:

 

As long as the axis planes set is not:

 

-Single high performance Italian fighter

 

-4x German planes already in the game but with desert filters slapped on

 

For Sicily 43 they can easy pick 5 axis set out of MC205, Re.2001, Re.2002, Re.2005, Fw-190A-4, Ju-88A-17 and SM.79.

Allieds would have even more options that fit gameplay, A-36A, P-38F/G , P-40F/K/L/M, Spitfire VLF, VIII, IXc, Beaufighter I/VI ... and even carrier airstuff if they wont, but thats the problem with 43, they would have to add more naval stuff, but then again we got Normandy without invasion and no one care as long as you give them new airplanes and new map, so maybe Sicily 43 without invasion is posible.

For earlyer Malta vs Sicily time period they would have harder time finding interesting planset on axis side that are not just airplanes already in game with added trop filter

 

Edited May 17, 2022 by CountZero

[Alexmarine]

12 minutes ago, CountZero said:

For Sicily 43 they can easy pick 5 axis set out of MC205, Re.2001, Re.2002, Fw-190A4, Ju-88A-17 and SM.79.

 

 

Clearly you want the game to fail, not even a 109? s/ 

[moustache]

On 5/14/2022 at 9:20 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

Adding new features does not have to wait until other issues are fixed.

money does not have to wait until other issues are fixed.

[Mavi_IT]

IMHO the Italian market is waiting for a product it has never had before.  And the beauty of an Italian scenario is beyond compare. The history of the war was also made in these longitude and it is time to do justice to the Italian army.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Ma_vi

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, moustache said:

money does not have to wait until other issues are fixed.

Money is what fixes the other issues.  No money.  No fixes.

 

And I have absolutely no idea why you think this is funny.

Edited May 17, 2022 by BraveSirRobin
responding to “laughing” emoji

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Money is what fixes the other issues.  No money.  No fixes.

 

And I have absolutely no idea why you think this is funny.

maybe he works for free

[moustache]

9 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Money is what fixes the other issues.  No money.  No fixes.

 

And I have absolutely no idea why you think this is funny.

maybe the TC bugs still present from the start? or maybe bug fixes like AI seeing and shooting through objects...and still doing so...

 

However, we have donated money and continue to donate...

 

and then i buy a product, then i have to pay again for i to work properly? (be careful, I understand that an update, a new module can bring bugs, they have to be corrected afterwards...)

 

someone will buy a bike where you have to pay a second time for it to move forward ?

 

I'm ready to pay for a new feature, a new campaign, but not to fix the bugs of a product I've already bought...

Edited May 18, 2022 by moustache