Guest deleted@83466 Posted October 1, 2022 Posted October 1, 2022 Forget all that Jack Fraser…I had to look up “Bessarabia” on Wikipedia…remember, this is a commercial video game.
Jackfraser24 Posted October 1, 2022 Author Posted October 1, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said: Forget all that Jack Fraser…I had to look up “Bessarabia” on Wikipedia…remember, this is a commercial video game. I understand. I was just trying to tell people that the scenario and circumstances were all completely different back in WWII to what it is right now. Edited October 1, 2022 by Jackfraser24 1
AEthelraedUnraed Posted October 1, 2022 Posted October 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said: Fair enough, you do make a valid point. However, you must understand. These were very different times. There were soldiers of Ukrainian nationality who fought in the Red Army, with the same goals that their fellow Russian, Belorussian and Baltic soldiers had. To drive the Nazis out of their homeland. To rid Europe of the possibility of nazism ever grabbing a hold of a nation’s government. To prevent the eradication of all Slavic and Baltic ethnic nationalities and lebensraum becoming a reality. To stop this seemingly endless horror of mass murder, genocide and other countless counts of crimes against humanity. I don’t intend to use this as an argument. I just wanted to shed light on the fact that Ukrainians fought to defend their country against the Nazis and their collaborators in order to prevent slavery, mass deportation and genocide. So, what would you say? Would it be a good idea or a bad one to do a Battle of Bessarabia? But just so you know, I am not denying what is happening in Ukraine. And I would never ever condone something like that. And there were Ukrainians fighting for or collaborating with the Germans for much the same reasons: to stop the seemingly endless horror of mass murder, genocide and other countless counts of crimes against humanity. To defend their country against the Communists and their collaborators in order to prevent slavery, mass deportation and genocide. (To paraphrase you ) Of course, as it turned out they were just trading one murderous tyrant for another, but your argument that it would be OK because the Soviets were somehow "liberating" Ukraine doesn't hold. They were just "re-occupying" it. Photo: German soldiers are greeted as liberators in a Ukrainian village in 1941. Source: https://ww2live.com/en/content/world-war-2-ukrainian-german-collaboration-during-world-war-ii-18-images-ukrainian-people 1 3
Calos_01 Posted October 1, 2022 Posted October 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said: Fair enough, you do make a valid point. However, you must understand. These were very different times. There were soldiers of Ukrainian nationality who fought in the Red Army, with the same goals that their fellow Russian, Belorussian and Baltic soldiers had. To drive the Nazis out of their homeland. To rid Europe of the possibility of nazism ever grabbing a hold of a nation’s government. To prevent the eradication of all Slavic and Baltic ethnic nationalities and lebensraum becoming a reality. To stop this seemingly endless horror of mass murder, genocide and other countless counts of crimes against humanity. I don’t intend to use this as an argument. I just wanted to shed light on the fact that Ukrainians fought to defend their country against the Nazis and their collaborators in order to prevent slavery, mass deportation and genocide. So, what would you say? Would it be a good idea or a bad one to do a Battle of Bessarabia? But just so you know, I am not denying what is happening in Ukraine. And I would never ever condone something like that. Indeed, the history of this part of Europe is not straight and easy one (as AEtheIraedUnraed has pointed out). Timothy Snyder´s book Bloodlands can be recomended in this regard.
DD_Arthur Posted October 1, 2022 Posted October 1, 2022 6 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said: So, what would you say? Would it be a good idea or a bad one to do a Battle of Bessarabia? Jack, it would be a very bad idea for a commercial product - that depends on sales from all around the world - to try and market something like this, at this time. You seem unable to grasp what those reasons are….and we’re unable to spell them out to you without this thread being locked. Do you understand why? A simple yes or no will suffice ? 2 1 1
BraveSirRobin Posted October 1, 2022 Posted October 1, 2022 8 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said: These were very different times. That does not matter in the slightest. The game would have to be sold to people in the current times. Your attempt to market the game in this thread apparently depends on your target audience not knowing anything about the real situation in WW2 or anything about the situation right now. Even if we ignore all of that, how many people do you think know, or care, where Bessarabia is? Marketing Bodenplatte to people who don’t know what it is is easy. Just put a P-51 on your press release. How do you market Bessarabia? 1
Jackfraser24 Posted October 1, 2022 Author Posted October 1, 2022 (edited) Ok. I agree with all of you. I’m sorry Edited October 1, 2022 by Jackfraser24 1
Jackfraser24 Posted October 1, 2022 Author Posted October 1, 2022 IL-2 Battle of The Channel 1943-44 I know this may come as a disappointment to many if a Battle of The Channel goes through, but overall I don’t think that it would be a bad idea. The Normandy map still has a lot of potential left in it. There are only two versions of it, or two so far. D-Day and the summer map, or post D-Day. If they did a scenario that stretched from January 1943 to June 1944, they would be including 6 or 7 new seasonal maps (7 if you count the summer time just before D-Day). Then they would be able to include historical cross channel missions in pilot career, happened between 1943 and 1944. The plane list, though it would consist largely of aircraft that are just variants of planes that we already have, but it could also include some new planes like the Beaufighter, the Do-217 or the Ju-188 (though the latter was developed from the Ju-88). A chronologically extended Normandy map could provide opportunity and purpose for numerous collector planes to be developed. Possible plane list Germans Bf-110 F-1 Bf-110 F-4 Do-217 K-2 Ju-88 S-1 Ju-188 A-2 British and Americans A-20G Beaufighter Mk.21 P-38G P-47C Spitfire Mk.IXc 1 1
Hoss Posted October 1, 2022 Posted October 1, 2022 On 2/1/2022 at 9:01 AM, Eisenfaustus said: But it wouldn’t be Barbarossa - the starting date would be similar to moscow. But Leningrad would be my first candidate for a collectors map - allowing us to fly careers for almost all eastern front aircraft we currently have. Would still like to see the Yak-3, Tu-2, Su-2, Yak-9U, and P-63... to finish the war... and a Mistal of the Ju-88... very late Ju-87, Ju-188 maybe... 1
Valis Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 Korea. Just because carrier 'tech' isn't available shouldn't matter; I don't recall it hurting Mig Alley. That sim, while rough as a bear's backside, was still brilliant. The only technical barrier I suspect is the size of the map. 1
Jackfraser24 Posted October 2, 2022 Author Posted October 2, 2022 Referring to my last suggestion, they could expand the map in all four directions, even if that means they would have to put a specific no-fly-zone over London and Paris. When I mean by that, since the game wouldn’t be able to handle very large cities like London, Paris and Moscow. Unlike Moscow, however, where the entire eastern part of the Moscow map is covered in a no fly zone, I envision an expanded Normandy map where the no-fly-zone would only cover London and Paris, which is a great disappointment (I’ll admit), but you’d still be able to fly around the cities. Operations like the Baby Blitz (January 21st to May 29th 1944) would become doable. You could be able to defend London in a Beaufighter or a Mosquito from being raided by aircraft like the Do-217, He-177, or Ju-188, before they reach the no-fly-zone. Smaller scale bombing raids over Northern France and south of Paris which happened in real life from January 1943 to before June 6th 1944 would also be doable.
Eisenfaustus Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said: put a specific no-fly-zone over London and Paris. To be honest I don’t like this idea a bit - creating holes in a map you have to fly around sounds extremely unfun. Especially if you want one side to attack into these holes as that means that you neither can fly that side nor pursue them into their target area. Bad game design and unimmersive
Jackfraser24 Posted October 2, 2022 Author Posted October 2, 2022 20 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said: To be honest I don’t like this idea a bit - creating holes in a map you have to fly around sounds extremely unfun. Especially if you want one side to attack into these holes as that means that you neither can fly that side nor pursue them into their target area. Bad game design and unimmersive I know, but the game wouldn’t be able to handle Paris and London.
Bonnot Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 There is also a possibility for a large area south of the BoN to cover Brittany ( Brest naval base of Kriegsmarine ) ; St Nazaire, La Rochelle and Bordeaux with the huge submarines shelters ( still existing as too costly to be destroyed !!! ) From 1941 they were continuously under attacks from heavies or medium bombers, mined, photographed, commando raided etc.... so plenty of action . Air forces may include Mosquitoes Tse-Tse vs submarines and Recco, B17, Boston, even "Stringbag" , TorBeau, Whirlwind and other typical Brits with tremendous adventures like Evading of Scharnorst and Prinz Eugen, Musterland etc.... All with a large no-cost ocean, or coastal regions not so different from BoN , this also equilibrating the balance of Maps (15 to 6 ) at West -until 1945 and the surrender of the last Festungs.... 4
Alexmarine Posted October 2, 2022 Posted October 2, 2022 14 hours ago, Hoss said: P-63... You need Manchuria or the Kurile Islands for that
Jackfraser24 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Posted October 3, 2022 The Channel 1943-44 Possible Standard or Collector Planes Many of you may be thinking this is just one of my ridiculously long list of planes I want there to be in the game. For the record, this isn’t true. I don’t think they would be able do all of of them. I’m just pointing out what aircraft they could possibly choose to do. Germans Ar-234 B-2 IPR Bf-109 G-6AS Bf-110 F-1 Bf-110 F-2 Bf-110 F-4 Bf-110 G-4 Fw-190 A-4 Fw-200 C-3 He-111 H-20 He-111 H-21 He-111 H-22 - V-1 carrier He-177 A-1/2/3 Ju-87 D-5 Ju-88 A-6/A-6U Ju-88 A-8 Ju-88 A-12 Ju-88 A-14 Ju-88 A-17 Ju-88 G-1 Ju-88 G-6 Ju-88 G-7 Ju-88 S-1 Ju-188 A/E British Beaufighter Mk.VIc/f Beaufighter Mk.X Hurricane Mk.IV Meteor Mk.I Meteor Mk.III Mosquito Mk.II Mosquito Mk.III Mosquito Mk.IV Mosquito Mk.IX Mosquito Mk.XIII Mosquito Mk.XVI Mosquito Mk.XVIII Spitfire Mk.Vc Spitfire Mk.XII Spitfire Mk.XVI Sunderland Swordfish Mk.II Wellington Mk.X Wellington Mk.XIV Wellington Mk.XVI Americans A-20C A-20G A-20J A-36A B-25C B-25D B-25H B-25J B-26C B-26G P-38 G-10 P-38 G-13 P-38 G-15 P-38 H-1 P-38 H-5 P-38 J-5 P-38 J-10 P-38 J-15 P-38 J-20 P-38 L-1 P-38 L-5 P-47 C-2 P-47 C-3 P-47 C-5 P-47 D-1 P-47 D-2 P-47 D-3 P-47 D-4 P-47 D-5 P-47 D-6 P-47 D-10 P-47 D-11 P-47 D-15 P-47 D-16 P-47 D-20 P-47 D-21 P-47 D-23 P-47 D-25 P-47 D-26 P-47 D-27 P-47 D-30 P-51 B-1 P-51 B-7 P-51 B-10 P-51 D-5 P-51 D-10 P-51 D-20 P-51 D-30 1 1
BMA_FlyingShark Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jackfraser24 said: Many of you may be thinking this is just one of my ridiculously long list of planes I want there to be in the game. For the record, this isn’t true. I don’t think they would be able do all of of them. I’m just pointing out what aircraft they could possibly choose to do. Keep 'em comin', I would pay for any and all of these planes. Have a nice day. 1
Jackfraser24 Posted October 3, 2022 Author Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, SeaSerpent said: Are you serious, JackF? Well, I wouldn't go knocking on their doorstep and ask them to do all of them. I'm just pointing out all the possible possible planes I can think of. The channel is a gold mine of opportunities and reasons for many collector planes to be made. But I wouldn't agree for every plane on my latest list to be sold all independently. Some sub variants are almost identical to each other and only the most hardcore IL-2 fans would buy them all. I'd suggest that all sub variants of planes that are very similar to the other would be sold under one title. I.e. the P-47 D-1 to D-23 would be sold as the P-47D Razorback, and the P-47 D-25 to D-30 as the P-47D Bubble Canopy. Edited October 3, 2022 by Jackfraser24
Bonnot Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said: all sub variants of planes that are very similar to the other would be sold under one title Yes, that's easier.... There are so many interesting birds here , difficult to choose but my favorite now is the Beaufighter : As twin engine attacker she was used in all skies where Commonwealth fought, in various colours and a wide variety of roles : night fighter, intruder, scout, light bomber, on land and sea, snow or desert sand, with an array of weapons from .30x4 to rockets and guns ... She is also the one who can give us a real Torpedo Bomber (TORBEAU) as well as a Radar equipped plane - All in One ! I'll pay for this Collector ? 2
BOO Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Bonnot said: Yes, that's easier.... There are so many interesting birds here , difficult to choose but my favorite now is the Beaufighter : As twin engine attacker she was used in all skies where Commonwealth fought, in various colours and a wide variety of roles : night fighter, intruder, scout, light bomber, on land and sea, snow or desert sand, with an array of weapons from .30x4 to rockets and guns ... She is also the one who can give us a real Torpedo Bomber (TORBEAU) as well as a Radar equipped plane - All in One ! I'll pay for this Collector ? A little reality here. As an all in one the Beu would need an number of different flight models to account for the changes to the fin and stabs as well as loadouts., a number of different powerplants requiring further differing FMs and modelling, at least 3 differing radars and introduction of RADAR tech to GB first , the introduction of Torp tech and dyncamics to at least 2 new and cmplex torpedo weapons to GB first. Effectively you're asking for a least 3 if not more separate 3D models in one release plus a host of additional development. That could never be covered in a single collector release. If the beau ever came it would likely come in graduation (in the pack or as a collector) over differing titles 1
Bonnot Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 5 hours ago, BOO said: Effectively you're asking for a least 3 if not more separate 3D models in one release plus a host of additional development. Yes, dreaming is easy , coming down usually harder....... If the game is going to stay in Europe for 1940/45 -which is OK for me even if I'd like the Pacific-, it'll need some improvements, extensions, maps, new models etc... As existing planes, flight models, sky and clouds , are still (almost) perfect, it'd be necessary to look beyond : So with Radar for night ops, torpedo, mining of sealanes, covert ops (arming the Resistance, etc...), there are plenty possibility within the time frame and modelling assets to extend the interest of the game in time and satisfy a demanding -but trustable audience . 1
FliegerAD Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 2 hours ago, Bonnot said: Radar for night ops, torpedo, mining of sealanes, covert ops (arming the Resistance, etc...), there are plenty possibility within the time frame and modelling assets to extend the interest of the game in time and satisfy a demanding -but trustable audience . Also guided munitions like the Fritz-X. There are indeed some new mechanics which could add some spice even to another ETO-scenario.
BraveSirRobin Posted October 3, 2022 Posted October 3, 2022 17 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said: The Channel 1943-44 Possible Standard or Collector Planes Many of you may be thinking this is just one of my ridiculously long list of planes I want there to be in the game. For the record, this isn’t true. I don’t think they would be able do all of of them. I’m just pointing out what aircraft they could possibly choose to do. Germans Ar-234 B-2 IPR Bf-109 G-6AS Bf-110 F-1 Bf-110 F-2 Bf-110 F-4 Bf-110 G-4 Fw-190 A-4 Fw-200 C-3 He-111 H-20 He-111 H-21 He-111 H-22 - V-1 carrier He-177 A-1/2/3 Ju-87 D-5 Ju-88 A-6/A-6U Ju-88 A-8 Ju-88 A-12 Ju-88 A-14 Ju-88 A-17 Ju-88 G-1 Ju-88 G-6 Ju-88 G-7 Ju-88 S-1 Ju-188 A/E British Beaufighter Mk.VIc/f Beaufighter Mk.X Hurricane Mk.IV Meteor Mk.I Meteor Mk.III Mosquito Mk.II Mosquito Mk.III Mosquito Mk.IV Mosquito Mk.IX Mosquito Mk.XIII Mosquito Mk.XVI Mosquito Mk.XVIII Spitfire Mk.Vc Spitfire Mk.XII Spitfire Mk.XVI Sunderland Swordfish Mk.II Wellington Mk.X Wellington Mk.XIV Wellington Mk.XVI Americans A-20C A-20G A-20J A-36A B-25C B-25D B-25H B-25J B-26C B-26G P-38 G-10 P-38 G-13 P-38 G-15 P-38 H-1 P-38 H-5 P-38 J-5 P-38 J-10 P-38 J-15 P-38 J-20 P-38 L-1 P-38 L-5 P-47 C-2 P-47 C-3 P-47 C-5 P-47 D-1 P-47 D-2 P-47 D-3 P-47 D-4 P-47 D-5 P-47 D-6 P-47 D-10 P-47 D-11 P-47 D-15 P-47 D-16 P-47 D-20 P-47 D-21 P-47 D-23 P-47 D-25 P-47 D-26 P-47 D-27 P-47 D-30 P-51 B-1 P-51 B-7 P-51 B-10 P-51 D-5 P-51 D-10 P-51 D-20 P-51 D-30 This just silly. And utterly meaningless. Try coming up with a list of good aircraft for 1943. Maybe also a few more that could be considered with reasons why they weren’t. At least that might be worth discussing. A list of “everything” is just stupid. 1
Bonnot Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 10 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said: This just silly. And utterly meaningless. Try coming up with a list of good aircraft for 1943. Silly= maybe ? Meaningless = certainly not , just think : how many Big Brass thought in 1939 a wooden-Balsa...- plane, will bomb Berlin ? How many approved in 1940,the necessity of building landing craft to invade Europe...and so by sailing two artificial harbours, floating concrete devices the size of buildings? Even Airborne radar or rockets were considered by many as dreamers fantasies ? Let us dream to a Hurricane take off from a cargo in mid-Atlantic or a Lysander landing Jean Moulin in the middle of German/Vichy watch ......before returning to ME vs Spit !
Guest deleted@83466 Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Bonnot said: Silly= maybe ? Meaningless = certainly not , just think : how many Big Brass thought in 1939 a wooden-Balsa...- plane, will bomb Berlin ? How many approved in 1940,the necessity of building landing craft to invade Europe...and so by sailing two artificial harbours, floating concrete devices the size of buildings? Even Airborne radar or rockets were considered by many as dreamers fantasies ? Let us dream to a Hurricane take off from a cargo in mid-Atlantic or a Lysander landing Jean Moulin in the middle of German/Vichy watch ......before returning to ME vs Spit ! Oh, here we go with the “courage to dream” Strawman… If you want to play that card, look no further than the Ford Edsel with a grill arrangement that looked like a vulva. Ford Motor Co. could absorb such a commercial failure, but I doubt 777’s pockets are so deep. How many different ways can it be stated that this product needs to actually be SOLD?
BraveSirRobin Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 4 hours ago, Bonnot said: Silly= maybe ? Meaningless = certainly not , just think : how many Big Brass thought in 1939 a wooden-Balsa...- plane, will bomb Berlin ? How many approved in 1940,the necessity of building landing craft to invade Europe...and so by sailing two artificial harbours, floating concrete devices the size of buildings? Even Airborne radar or rockets were considered by many as dreamers fantasies ? Let us dream to a Hurricane take off from a cargo in mid-Atlantic or a Lysander landing Jean Moulin in the middle of German/Vichy watch ......before returning to ME vs Spit ! ok, let’s dare to dream. Maybe they can make every aircraft that saw action in WW2. Then most likely they already have such a list.
Bonnot Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 9 hours ago, SeaSerpent said: Oh, here we go with the “courage to dream” Strawman… Well, Touché ... but is just a GAME _ and dreams are not yet taxed ?
AndyJWest Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 8 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said: ok, let’s dare to dream. Maybe they can make every aircraft that saw action in WW2. Then most likely they already have such a list. Sorry, I'm not going to buy any air combat sim that has a Blackburn Roc in it. Modelling it is probably against the Geneva Convention, on account of it being so ugly...
BraveSirRobin Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 1 minute ago, AndyJWest said: Sorry, I'm not going to buy any air combat sim that has a Blackburn Roc in it. Modelling it is probably against the Geneva Convention, on account of it being so ugly... Would you be ok with it being a collector plane? Or would you stop playing the game completely due to any possible contact in MP with other people flying the Blackburn Roc or even seeing the outline of it in the list of aircraft to select in a quick mission?
AndyJWest Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 Just now, BraveSirRobin said: Would you be ok with it being a collector plane? Or would you stop playing the game completely due to any possible contact in MP with other people flying the Blackburn Roc or even seeing the outline of it in the list of aircraft to select in a quick mission? I'd have to find another hobby, since even thinking about it brings me out in a rash... 1
BraveSirRobin Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 Just now, AndyJWest said: I'd have to find another hobby, since even thinking about it brings me out in a rash... Have you considered post a list of rash inducing aircraft, or is it just the Blackburn Roc? 1
AndyJWest Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 7 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said: Have you considered post a list of rash inducing aircraft, or is it just the Blackburn Roc? I'm trying not to think about it. At least, not until I can get to the chemist's for some ointment...
BraveSirRobin Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 Ok, I just Googled Blackburn Roc and Andy makes a very good point. Jack, please don’t include the Blackburn Roc in any of your future lists.
Bonnot Posted October 4, 2022 Posted October 4, 2022 ....But it is OK for the Boulton paul DEFIANT...or the Vildebest ?
Jackfraser24 Posted October 5, 2022 Author Posted October 5, 2022 10 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said: Ok, I just Googled Blackburn Roc and Andy makes a very good point. Jack, please don’t include the Blackburn Roc in any of your future lists. Thanks for giving me the idea! .t’now I yrrow t’noD
Bonnot Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 Beautiful but lonesome plane, on a gorgeous sea/land brightly coloured landscape....?
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