Any solid feedback yet on using the Moza with IL2?

[Panzerlang]

Turns out they have a Japanese version already and I can order that (4 to 5 weeks to ship).

The only review I've been able to find with IL2 however says its performance isn't great, unlike with DCS and my email to them elicited a "what issues are you having?", implying they've done all they can with IL2's limited (?) FFB telemetry.

They also haven't made Virpil axis compatible (yet), so it's all buttons. So I might have to go with their own grip.

[Aapje]

3 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

my email to them elicited a "what issues are you having?", implying they've done all they can with IL2's limited (?) FFB telemetry.

 

I wouldn't conclude this. When you contact them, you are talking to tech support, not to the devs.

 

Also, they've got plenty to do and IL-2 is unlikely to be the priority. I just hope that they get to it. The risk is that by the time they are done with other priorities, Korea is out and they will only focus on that.

[Panzerlang]

I've ordered it (base, grip, plate and extension), 4 to 6 weeks for delivery. Hopefully they'll work on full support for Virpil grips in the meantime.

[BOO]

7 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

I've ordered it (base, grip, plate and extension), 4 to 6 weeks for delivery. Hopefully they'll work on full support for Virpil grips in the meantime.

 

Moza seem to be highly reliant on knocking off the software of others at present (literally Ctrl C and Ctrl V) in violation of GPL licences and not to the benefit of all which the licence was design to ensure. So you'd probably be better to check the VP Force threads for how its all gonna work instead of asking Moza as they clearly aint got a clue themselves 🙂 

[Panzerlang]

Good job I ordered the Moza grip as Virpil have pushed back the release of the Flanker to Dec/Jan. I've subsequently cancelled that order.

[Panzerlang]

Apparently the latest software update from Moza includes support for IL2.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

On 11/20/2024 at 7:59 AM, Panzerlang said:

Apparently the latest software update from Moza includes support for IL2.

Interesting....

 

Hope someone reviews it to see if Moza succeeded with IL2 integration.

[TBD79_OD_]

HI, I've had my AB9 for quite some time now but not been able to get it to work with IL2. While the game picks up me assigning commands to it in the UI it does nothing when in flight, has anyone else experienced this? Are there any suggestions to get it working? 

[Panzerlang]

*Sigh*. Is there any let-up from this kind of experience? I put my order in on the 1st November and it did say "4 to 6 weeks until shipment". No problemo, until I began reading reports of people who had ordered AFTER me already having their gear, explained as a result of them having chased-up their order. So, of course, I chased up mine. I got a reply, apologising for the delay but explaining it as due to a shipment of parts at their end having been delayed, with a promise my stuff would be shipped on the 25th (yesterday).

I went to have a look at my account yesterday, only to be unable to login due to "wrong password". I know for an absolute fact my password was correct but hey, glitches happen. So, I hit the "forgotten password" button, message given of "link sent to your email" but it never came. Two more attempts, nada. Not in the spam folder either. Emailed them, no reply but I did get an email this morning from their ecommerce dept with a discount code for future purchases and hoping everything on my previous order had gone well. No, it hasn't. No base, no grip, no extension and no mounting-plate.

I've emailed with a request for a full refund, failure of which by tomorrow morning will lead to a card charge-back. I used to have a lot more patience with this kind of crap behaviour but those days are long gone.

And their website support-page has now been down "for maintenance" since yesterday morning.

[Aapje]

I can log in to Moza right now. My experience with simracing gear from them was that it takes longer than promised, but that it does come.

[Black-Witch]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:32 PM, TBD79_OD_ said:

HI, I've had my AB9 for quite some time now but not been able to get it to work with IL2. While the game picks up me assigning commands to it in the UI it does nothing when in flight, has anyone else experienced this? Are there any suggestions to get it working? 

 

Hi, my moza base arrived yesterday, some things i've learned…...

to make adjustments you will need to create a new profile in the relevant game selection, all the provided profiles seem to be read-only and there are none for il-2.

making your own profile allows you to alt tab between the game and the moza software and instantly see the changes youre making effect the plane.

 

on the moza cockpit main/home screen, on the far right side (bloody nazi's), when I select the il-2 icon, I can add the path to the game but I cant add the tele port number, dunno what it is so I added the port number for telelemtry device in startup.cfg, which my rumble seat uses OK.

It may be that this setting is missing/wrong, or not, but I dont get all the FFB features in il-2, such as stall effects.

 

I do get these effects in DCS though using the DCS mustang profile, well my own profile for the pony in the DCS folder. great stall effects, the stick shakes as much as the screen and my rumble seat, then goes floppy as the air over the wings slows down.

 

The DCS profile doesn’t have stall effects in il-2 either, I tried that as I was hoping there was a setting i’d missed somewhere in my il-2 profile, but no, so it seems that either moza doesn’t fully support il-2 or i need to find the right tele port number. I am using the combined direct and tele settings.

 

so for now I’m trying to find out what the telemetry port number might be for il-2 and also tweaking the DCS Mustang settings, the default seems a bit “heavy” at all speeds.

 

onwards and upwards.

[Dukethejuke]

Anyone figure out the telemetry problem? What path are you using?

 

Edited January 12 by Dukethejuke
add

[Panzerlang]

 

If I recall correctly, from a thread long ago, IL2 doesn't have FFB 'telemetry', it does basic DX output. So, you basically get canned effects which are the same for all planes.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

Chat-GPT says:

"In IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad (BoX), the Force Feedback (FFB) implementation primarily uses DirectInput (DX) Force Feedback effects, which are sometimes referred to as "canned" effects. These effects are pre-programmed responses for things like weapon recoil, stall buffeting, and control surface forces, rather than directly outputting raw telemetry data for FFB devices.

Key Points on FFB in IL-2 BoX:

DirectInput FFB Effects:

The game outputs standard DirectInput force effects, which are interpreted by FFB-enabled joysticks like the Microsoft Sidewinder FFB 2.

Effects include centering forces, vibrations for gunfire, and resistance changes based on airspeed.

Telemetry Output:

IL-2 BoX does not natively output detailed telemetry data specifically designed for custom or advanced FFB systems.

However, some third-party tools (like SimShaker or telemetry parsers) can read telemetry exported by the game for motion platforms or bass shakers. These tools sometimes adapt telemetry data to create custom FFB profiles.

Customization and Community Mods:

The FFB implementation is not highly customizable within the game itself.

Advanced users or enthusiasts often rely on external software or community modifications to refine the FFB experience using telemetry from the game.

If you're looking for "proper telemetry" for a custom FFB system, you might need to use third-party tools to extract and convert the game's exported telemetry data into usable FFB effects. This approach typically requires significant setup and may not provide seamless integration."

Edited January 13 by Panzerlang

[Panzerlang]

Do you happen to know exactly how many parameters IL2 outputs for FFB?

ChatGPT said:

ChatGPT

IL-2 Sturmovik (BoX) outputs a limited set of parameters for Force Feedback (FFB) through DirectInput, as it relies on Microsoft's older FFB framework. This framework doesn't provide granular telemetry but rather interprets predefined "force effects" that are standardized across many games. IL-2 typically sends the following FFB parameters:

Known FFB Outputs in IL-2 BoX:

1. Centering Force:

   • Adjusted dynamically based on airspeed to simulate control stiffness at higher speeds and reduced centering forces at lower speeds.

2. Damper Force:

   • Simulates resistance and damping in the control surfaces to provide realistic feedback during maneuvers.

3. Vibration Effects:

   • Simulates gunfire, engine vibrations, or stall buffeting. These are generally canned effects, not derived from real-time telemetry.

4. Spring Force:

   • Applied in cases like trimming, where the joystick's neutral position shifts to represent trimmed control surfaces.

5. Friction Force:

   • Some FFB devices may interpret this as resistance increasing with speed or other dynamic conditions.

What It Does Not Output:

• Detailed Aerodynamic Forces: IL-2 does not directly provide telemetry for raw aerodynamic forces acting on each axis or surface.
• Environmental Effects: Effects like turbulence, wind gusts, or wake turbulence are not explicitly modeled for FFB (beyond vibrations or indirect force changes).

Total Parameters:

In practice, this amounts to 3–5 general force categories managed via DirectInput, rather than a rich set of parameters specific to flight conditions.

If you're developing or configuring a custom FFB system, you’ll likely need to extract and interpret telemetry from other sources (e.g., SimShaker, UDP telemetry output) to get detailed data like angle of attack, slip, or lift forces for more granular FFB. Let me know if you want pointers for telemetry extraction!

[AndyJWest]

There are absolutely no circumstances where I'd trust ChatGPT for any of that. Its purpose is to produce output that looks superficially convincing. It makes stuff up.

[Panzerlang]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

There are absolutely no circumstances where I'd trust ChatGPT for any of that. Its purpose is to produce output that looks superficially convincing. It makes stuff up.

I can't disagree with that, after asking it how to start the DH2's engine. It mentioned a bunch of controls that don't exist, though it did get the fuel-mixture widget right. Lol.

However, the above matches very well with what I recall reading a few years ago about FFB and IL2.

And given that a number of people have asked about ports for FFB telemetry and have been met with silence...

[Aapje]

3 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

There are absolutely no circumstances where I'd trust ChatGPT for any of that. Its purpose is to produce output that looks superficially convincing. It makes stuff up.

 

That's not its purpose. Its purpose is to string together words that often appear together, in the context of the query. Eliza is superficially convincing. ChatGPT is better than that.

 

It does make mistakes when doing this, but people also make mistakes. The upside of ChatGPT is that it contains an absurd amount of information, so it can find very obscure information that is very hard to find otherwise.

[AndyJWest]

ChatGPT bases its output on data compiled by processing 'an absurd amount of information', though whether it can meaningfully  be said to 'contain it' is open to debate, since it has absolutely no ability to tell you where it got any particular data from (or more accurately, not data, but sequences of words it attaches no 'meaning' to, beyond their association). Or indeed, whether the source it got it from was correct. Or whether it is concocting/hallucinating an answer from irrelevant data. And given the very limited number of possible sources for information on FFB in IL-2 GB (this forum, and maybe one or two others at best, along with FFB device manufacturers websites...) you are better off doing a search for data via Google.

 

Where ChatGPT works at all, it is because it is dealing with questions asked commonly enough to be able to cobble an answer together statistically, from a large range of samples. An astronomical volume of irrelevant data won't compensate for a lack of relevant stuff...

[Panzerlang]

2 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

ChatGPT bases its output on data compiled by processing 'an absurd amount of information', though whether it can meaningfully  be said to 'contain it' is open to debate, since it has absolutely no ability to tell you where it got any particular data from (or more accurately, not data, but sequences of words it attaches no 'meaning' to, beyond their association). Or indeed, whether the source it got it from was correct. Or whether it is concocting/hallucinating an answer from irrelevant data. And given the very limited number of possible sources for information on FFB in IL-2 GB (this forum, and maybe one or two others at best, along with FFB device manufacturers websites...) you are better off doing a search for data via Google.

 

Where ChatGPT works at all, it is because it is dealing with questions asked commonly enough to be able to cobble an answer together statistically, from a large range of samples. An astronomical volume of irrelevant data won't compensate for a lack of relevant stuff...

If you watch the screen you can see little icons popping up, showing from where GPT is getting its info (or some of it at least). It'll also provide little links in the text for reference.

[Dukethejuke]

So what I am hearing is that i just bought a 600.00 dollar Sidewinder 2. Wow!

[Panzerlang]

1 hour ago, Dukethejuke said:

So what I am hearing is that i just bought a 600.00 dollar Sidewinder 2. Wow!

With considerably more power.

I'm not sure if there's a huge gain, immersion-wise, from having full telemetry vs DX output. 

[Varibraun]

16 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

I'm not sure if there's a huge gain, immersion-wise, from having full telemetry vs DX output. 

 

I can say that with the Rhino there is a big difference between the native IL-2 DX FFB and the VPForce TeleFFB software applying telemetry.  I don't know about the Moza telemetry software, but I would think it would be the same, so I hope that is something Moza would eventually address for IL-2 users if they can't get it working right now.

 

Here is an old post where I compared it on the Rhino when flying the P-47:

 

 

[Tea-Pig]

On 11/25/2024 at 11:32 PM, TBD79_OD_ said:

HI, I've had my AB9 for quite some time now but not been able to get it to work with IL2. While the game picks up me assigning commands to it in the UI it does nothing when in flight, has anyone else experienced this? Are there any suggestions to get it working? 

Three months on and I have exactly this problem. Did you find a fix?

[Tea-Pig]

Well I found the problem. IL2 won't read the Moza stick properly if my VKB throttle is plugged in. Also IL2 doesn't even see the VKB if the Moza is plugged in. I would guess that shuffling the USB plugs around would cure things but actually I'm removing the Moza from my rig and re-installing my 20+ year old Sidewinder2 with which I was having a much better experience. The Moza base seems like a really nice piece of hardware but the software that drives it is beyond awful.

[Dukethejuke]

Since the new updates It works really well, their discord channel is worth it. The Devs are really helpful. I am trying all sorts of settings, unlike DCS there are no presets. But all in all I like it.

On 2/23/2025 at 7:47 AM, Tea-Pig said:

Well I found the problem. IL2 won't read the Moza stick properly if my VKB throttle is plugged in. Also IL2 doesn't even see the VKB if the Moza is plugged in. I would guess that shuffling the USB plugs around would cure things but actually I'm removing the Moza from my rig and re-installing my 20+ year old Sidewinder2 with which I was having a much better experience. The Moza base seems like a really nice piece of hardware but the software that drives it is beyond awful.

There is a company that make a connector to plug in your VKB to moza, You need to seach the Moza Discord for I can't remember the Co name. Right now Moza only uses Warthog Virpil and their own because of the pin type. Just saying.

On 1/14/2025 at 2:12 PM, Varibraun said:

 

I can say that with the Rhino there is a big difference between the native IL-2 DX FFB and the VPForce TeleFFB software applying telemetry.  I don't know about the Moza telemetry software, but I would think it would be the same, so I hope that is something Moza would eventually address for IL-2 users if they can't get it working right now.

 

Here is an old post where I compared it on the Rhino when flying the P-47:

 

 

Telemetry works now since updates

 

[Aapje]

7 hours ago, Dukethejuke said:

There is a company that make a connector to plug in your VKB to moza

 

VPForce sells the adapter.

[paul_leonard]

I had my Moza AB9 constantly interact negatvely with other USB devices.  In every case it would still be seen by the Moza Cockpit software but not in any game.  What I also noticed was that when I plugged or unplugged USB game controller devices the Moza controller would appear and/or disappear in the USB game controller app in Windows.  It actually wasn't limited to game controllers, it included connecting/disconnecting my keyboard and mouse.

 

I had to go into Device Manager and right-click on every USB device and under the Power Management tab uncheck the OS's ability to turn off devices to save power.  This seemed to eliminate my problem.

 

[Tea-Pig]

On 3/19/2025 at 2:02 PM, Dukethejuke said:

Since the new updates It works really well, their discord channel is worth it. The Devs are really helpful. I am trying all sorts of settings, unlike DCS there are no presets. But all in all I like it.

There is a company that make a connector to plug in your VKB to moza, You need to seach the Moza Discord for I can't remember the Co name. Right now Moza only uses Warthog Virpil and their own because of the pin type. Just saying.

Telemetry works now since updates

 

It's VKB throttle unit I've got, not a grip. I'm actually using a Virpil grip and works fine through the AB9. I did get around the issue of the Moza interfering with other USB devices by plugging it directly into one of the PC's ports. It doesn't seem to play well if used on a USB hub with other stuff. I think the newer Moza software/firmware is a bit better in this respect and it no longer appears twice in the joystick device list.

 

The latest Moza software also claims to be IL2 compatible and it does indeed now read telemetry from IL2. The automatic installer screwed up the feed to my motion rig and I had to manually edit IL2's config file to get everything to work, so bare this in mind if you have any other telemetry device connected.

 

IL2 has some pretty decent native FFB implementation. With my old Sidewinder I could keep a plane with a twitchy stall like the FW190 flying right on the edge just by the feel of the buffet in the stick. With the Moza, this 'direct' buffet is still present, but it's so weak and feeble that I can only just feel it. The 'telemetry' generated buffet is just as weak and useless. The only thing that seems to work well is the speed related return force, which can be turned up really high if you want. So for me the Moza, while it seems like a very well-built piece of hardware, is so let down by its awful software that it's actually a step back from a Sidewinder in IL2. It's pretty terrible in MSFS too, although it does work pretty well in DCS. Looking at the general state of the software, with all its bugs, instability and general amateurishness, I would guess it will be a long time before it gets fixed to anything like a usable state.

[jfulls94]

Going to chime in here, late to the party ive been using my Moza AB9 and notice that when the aircraft are on the ground its as if it turns on its center spring force ... awful! The comtroll surfaces dont become loose as a real aircraft. Does anyone have this issue? It does it for both Great Battles and Cliffs of dover blitz. 

[Aapje]

The way I have set it up, there is a very small centering force when stationary, and the forces quickly increase when I take off.

 

The software from Moza is not fully correct, and doesn't allow an optimal setup.

 

If you want to try my preset, you can get it from the Moza discord (have to be in the Discord for the link to work):

 

https://discord.com/channels/976306826947743766/1317895658245722193/1395970833058627676

Note that you have to combine it with curves in IL-2 like shown by Grasownik earlier in that Discord thread.