Would releasing Fortresses and Focke Wulfs without VR put you off buying it?

[Mysticpuma]

Unofficial question, just wondering what players thoughts are if TFS offer to release Truesky, Speedtree and the rest of the visual update (along with the paid for content) without VR, with the promise that VR will follow at a later date?

Edited October 27, 2024 by Mysticpuma
Clarity

[FurphyForum]

Yep, I'd buy it in the condition that you've stated.

[BladeMeister]

In a heartbeat.

 

S!Blade<>

[gabuzomeu]

👍

[Calos_01]

+1

[Ulricus]

+1

[OBT-Lionel]

+ 1

[No.54_Reddog]

I won't be buying Forts and FWs either way, as I have zero interest in that particular theatre/setup. (I'm waiting for Malta)

 

I do however want them to finish, and release the promised VU asap(with or without VR).

[BOO]

Isnt it kind of a moot question?. It isnt just about the graphics. Its also a whole host of aircraft we have seen nothing about. Given that list, there is literally months if not years left yet to perfect VR before the title is ready. 

 

So then perhpas we have another scenario - Will you buy Dieppe with just the Typhoon and 190 on the promise more aircraft will be added over time along with VR? 

 

Then there is price. £50 plus for a DLC with basically the same AI, broken coms, no Dynamic campaign but with nice trees.... its a hard sell even with some extra aircraft, especially if those are not there at release. 

 

From an MP perspective, whilst there isnt exactly a thriving scene to jump into, the choice of buying or not also needs to consider what choice you will have server wise. CloD might ship the VU to all but it doesnt ship free maps like GB did. So it could become a stark choice of TWC and DD servers the old Blitz map or the ATAG missions based maps with Dieppe and Tobruk. As such, the choice of purchase is almost taken away. Not necessarily a good thing for sales given the tepid feelings about CloD in the wider potential customer base. 

 

So-in all - I dunno. too many unknowns. 

 

BTW - I though about doing a poll

 

Does anyone know what happend to the ATAG October poll?

 

Y

N

 

🙂

 

[Dagwoodyt]

11 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

if TFS offer to release Truesky, Speedtree and the rest of the visual update

+1

That way the VU really does qualify as a "free" upgrade. I don't assume that any amount of effort put into VR will ever be enough for the CloD engine. There is typically an allusion to TS as the reason VR is still crashing, but we still don't know that VR is stable even without TS and ST 8/9.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Would buy it without VR as being a lowly 2D user

[Josp]

I would definitely buy it. I'm not a VR user.

[Dauntless]

First day!! 😎

[5th_Barone]

I'm a 2D user, so the question doesn't need my reply. But may I point out something else?

 

Clod's big problem at the moment is that it desperately needs new players, new communities, content creators to talk about it, etc.
Without a solid player base, not even the good old players will be back on the servers. That's a fact.

 

And looking at the internet these years, VR has always been requested by non-clod people as something that makes the game worth a try (as well as a new UI, just looks at steam reviews).

So releasing it without VR imho would not be a good solution as a long-term vision for growth.

[GOA_AveFenix506*VR*]

4 minutes ago, 5th_Barone said:

So releasing it without VR imho would not be a good solution as a long-term vision for growth.

Totally agreed.

[BENKOE]

Only if the release shows a real visual development:

 

 

14 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Unofficial question, just wondering what players thoughts are if TFS offer to release Truesky, Speedtree and the rest of the visual update without VR, with the promise that VR will follow at a later date?

Edited October 27, 2024 by BENKOE

[Mysticpuma]

4 hours ago, BOO said:

Isnt it kind of a moot question?. It isnt just about the graphics. Its also a whole host of aircraft we have seen nothing about. Given that list, there is literally months if not years left yet to perfect VR before the title is ready. 

 

So then perhpas we have another scenario - Will you buy Dieppe with just the Typhoon and 190 on the promise more aircraft will be added over time along with VR? 

 

Then there is price. £50 plus for a DLC with basically the same AI, broken coms, no Dynamic campaign but with nice trees.... its a hard sell even with some extra aircraft, especially if those are not there at release. 

 

BTW - I though about doing a poll

 

Does anyone know what happend to the ATAG October poll?

 

Y

N

 

🙂

 

I did try to create a poll but even though I set a question, it said I had to create a question 🤔😂

Anyway, taking onboard your comment, there is still a lot of content to get news and progress on:

 

IL-2 STURMOVIK, FORTRESSES AND FOCKE-WULFS – DIEPPE is an exciting, realistic and challenging WWII combat flight simulation set over the English Channel, the French and English countryside and the beaches of Dieppe, in the year leading up to, and the day of the Allied Raid of August 1942… the largest single day aerial battle of the war to that date.  Experience what it was like to pilot and fight in Focke-Wulf 190’s, Messerschmitt 109’s, Spitfires, Typhoons, P-51’s, the awesome four engined Flying Fortress bomber and many others. Dogfight high over the Allied Fleet as landing craft and warships surge towards their targets on the coast and tanks crawl up the beaches. Provide ground support for the hard pressed Canadian, British and American Raiding forces as a fighter or bomber, or lead Luftwaffe missions to sink bombarding Royal Navy vessels or combat the RAF fighter screen.    Allowing the players a unique and exciting view of this historical combined arms operation, FORTRESSES AND FOCKE-WULFS opens a window to an immersive aerial combat experience!

In this new IL-2 STURMOVIK: CLIFFS OF DOVER - BLITZ add-On DLC, you can fly with the Royal Air Force, the Luftwaffe or the newly arrived United States 8th Army Air Force.  Experience a variety of missions, in Fighters, Bombers and Attack aircraft. Jump into the cockpit of the sleek but deadly FW-190A ‘Butcher Bird’, the improved Bf-109G, the massively powerful Typhoon IA or IB, fast and aerodynamic P-51A-83 and A-91, classic Spitfire VC and IXA, and of course, the legendary B-17 Flying Fortress.  Dieppe allows players of all skill levels a chance to challenge themselves in a historically based campaign.

Twin engine bomber and heavy fighter fans will also have new choices… with the introduction of two versions of the Messerschmitt Bf-110F, new versions of the Junkers Ju-88A and C, as well as the Beaufighter VI and Wellington III… allowing for a huge variety of experiences in the air.

In addition to the focus on the Dieppe Raid, and a campaign recreating the fighter clashes of 1941-1942, the game will also provide a mini campaign hi-lighting the famous February 1942 ‘Channel Dash’, when two German Battlecruisers and a Heavy Cruiser risked the dangers of the English Channel and the wrath of the RAF and Royal Navy to escape from French ports to safety in Germany.

 

Key Features

•       18 new flyable types and variants are added with FORTRESSES AND FOCKE-WULFS – DIEPPE, allowing the players to experience aerial conflict over the English Channel from in the autumn of 1941 to the culminating moment of the Dieppe Raid in August of 1942.

•       A detailed new 1942 English Channel map with added landmarks, updated airfields and 4k terrain, large caliber Coastal Gun batteries, fortifications, minefields and defenses.

•       New tank, artillery and vehicle types added allowing the land battle to be recreated in detail.

•       Naval Vessels from the Royal Navy and Kriegsmarine are modeled including Scharnhorst Class Battlecruisers, Admiral Hipper Class Heavy Cruisers, Renown Class Battlecruisers, as well as destroyers and landing craft.

•       New aircraft detail including new engine technology like Turbo Superchargers, as well as more precise Flight, Damage, Propeller and Overheat modeling.

•       Improved graphics, including 4k textures for aircraft externals and cockpits, extended viewing distance, 4k terrain modeling, full 3D implementation for players with Virtual Reality headsets, updated vegetation and new cloud and weather systems.

•       Excellent multiplayer environment allows over 100 players and dozens of AI aircraft online simultaneously, providing for intense and challenging human versus human aerial battles.

•       New artificial intelligence routines and improved combat behavior for AI aircraft add to the excitement of detailed campaigns in Single Player for Luftwaffe, Royal Air Force and United States Army Air Force pilots.

•       New Quick Mission Builder provides the opportunity for faster and more detailed player created missions without the complexity of the Full Mission Builder.

•       IL-2 STURMOVIK: FORTRESSES AND FOCKE-WULFS - DIEPPE will be an exciting and challenging addition to the IL-2 STURMOVIK: CLIFFS OF DOVER line of products allowing players to immerse themselves in the moment in history when the Allies made their first attempt to reach out across the English Channel and challenge Germany’s domination of the European continent.

 

New Aircraft

Focke-Wulf 190A-1

Focke-Wulf 190A-2

Focke-Wulf 190A-3

Messerschmitt Bf-109G-2

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-1

Messerschmitt Bf-110F-2

Junkers Ju-88C-6

Junkers Ju-88A-4

Spitfire Mk VC

Spitfire Mk VC 'Clipped Wing'

Spitfire Mk IXA

P-51A-83

P-51A-91

B-17E

Wellington III

Beaufighter VIC

Typhoon Mk IA

Typhoon Mk IB

 

----------

It feels though that VR is the stumbling block?

That said, if all of the above is ready...and available in December, is it worth the £50 (tbc) with the guarantee of VR at a later date?

[Dagwoodyt]

22 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

That said, if all of the above is ready...and available in December, is it worth the £50 (tbc) with the guarantee of VR at a later date?

The original question was about the VU, I thought, not about paying for new content. I wouldn't pay for a "guarantee" from TFS😄

The product would be worthless to me without VR.

[Mysticpuma]

51 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The original question was about the VU, I thought, not about paying for new content. I wouldn't pay for a "guarantee" from TFS😄

The product would be worthless to me without VR.

It does state in the title of the topic "Would releasing Fortresses and Focke Wulfs without VR put you off buying it?", which would indicate that it comes with the VU as part of the bundle....just no VR on release 👍

[Dagwoodyt]

13 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

It does state in the title of the topic "Would releasing Fortresses and Focke Wulfs without VR put you off buying it?", which would indicate that it comes with the VU as part of the bundle....just no VR on release 👍

My bad! So, to the title: -1, to the VU without VR: +1 as stated.👍

[marcost]

Although I'm not interested in VR, I had hesitated to say yes I would buy.

 

However, reading again through all that content makes me think that if all that (bar VR) were delivered then yes, I definitely would buy it.

 

I bought Tobruk when it came out, not because I wanted to fly it (probably have 5 hours max on it), but to support future development.

 

So, if FAFW is delivered with all that content then I will support again - not because I'm interested in the specific aircraft and theatre, but because the team will have achieved a massive amount and that would bode very well indeed for the future.

 

Regards,

 

M

[Blitzen]

Sure I'd buy but I'm not all that sure I'd believe the VR "promise"... We've waited an awful long time for that already...

Edited October 27, 2024 by Blitzen
added info

[No.54_Reddog]

For those who want to support development. I figure that a patreon style campaign would possibly be something that TFS could look at? Could even help move towards a professional being brought in to help? 

 

 

[Avimimus]

I would get it without VR, no problem. Not everything needs VR (and a lot of people don't use it).

 

I would prefer an AI Do-217E though... the last massed daylight bomber raids (at Dieppe during Operation Jubilee) were composed of Do-217E... so it'll be a bit odd to see the same raids with only Ju-88 (or Do-215?)

 

[BOO]

4 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

That said, if all of the above is ready...and available in December, is it worth the £50 (tbc) with the guarantee of VR at a later date?

 

IF - then yes. 

[Missionbug]

I for one have never used VR and most likely never will, so yes absolutely as far as I am concerned.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[Aurora_Stealth]

Not bothered about VR (using TrackIR), I would buy without.

 

I'm willing to contribute through a Patreon page or something similar if one was setup.

 

Despite the turbulence going on, CloD's development remains important to me - especially with the focus of 1C moving to Korea. It needs to succeed so that it can effectively fill the gaps missing from IL2 GB, while upgrading the experience to something more comparable.

Edited October 28, 2024 by Aurora_Stealth
Typos and detail added

[343KKT_Kintaro]

I'm both a VR user and a TrackIR user, so yes, I'd buy it.

 

 

[BladeMeister]

2 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

I'm both a VR user and a TrackIR user, so yes, I'd buy it.

 

 

That is not possible Kintaro, after all, every VR user says "once you go VR, you cannot go back to 2D." You must have misspoken Sir???

 

S!Blade<><

[Buffo002]

It's simple, gamers who don't play VR will buy it, why shouldn't they buy it if they don't use VR. I don't know why I should wait (and other players who don't use VR either) until VR is ready, when I can use the new DLC immediately after release. And the players who use VR, it's up to them (at least they will have a discount, which is in every pre-sale), anyway the TFS team will add VR later. It is up to each individual whether they buy the game without VR or not. 

 

And in addition, I will finally edit my campaigns (mainly JG 26 Buffo about 250 missions) where I will fix Bf-109 F-4 to Fw 190 A-1, Fw 190 A-2, Fw 190 A-3, B-17, new Spitfire and other planes ... so I'm really looking forward to it . 

Edited October 28, 2024 by Buffo002

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

There are more interested players without VR than with googles and those who say about ultimatum - no VR no buy are even less. I have VR but I prefer 2D and would buy because there is new  content/ improvements not because VR support.

[354thFG_Leifr]

On 10/27/2024 at 1:54 AM, Mysticpuma said:

Unofficial question, just wondering what players thoughts are if TFS offer to release Truesky, Speedtree and the rest of the visual update (along with the paid for content) without VR, with the promise that VR will follow at a later date?

 

Yup, I'm a flatscreen TrackIR user and would buy in an instant if these updates arrived.

To be honest, I'm more hacked off that they're delaying all of this just to shoehorn VR in to the game.

[Bussard_x]

I already suggested this a while ago, but Buzzaw stated that the visual update +VR could be available earlier but not later than "Dieppe" release. Too much impact.

[No.54_Reddog]

The reality of all this;

 

Visual Update

- speedtree - not finished

- truesky - not finished

- map visuals - maybe finished?

- VR - clearly nowhere near finished/stable

 

Fort & Wulf

- B17 - not finished

- FW - not finished? (Might be overlooking some announcement/video)

- P51 - has anyone seen anything whatsoever on this?

- Typhoon - was modelled back when I was in TFS (10 yrs ago?) and been seen ingame so finished?

- rest of the aircraft - I'm guessing most of these being variants of existing aircraft are either config (FM/DM etc) changes or very small 3d model changes are finished but IIRC nothing seen on any of them?

- Dieppe map - finished?

 

I think if we had done a similar roundup last year, it'd have been about the same overall status. I'm sure incremental progress is being made. But the pace at which it's being made is too slow and the scope and range is too wide to effect meaningful progress I'd posit.

 

While VR continues to prove a stumbling block I don't think it's the real big issue tbh.

 

Clearly they aren't going to hit their self declared timescales. The question will be by how much? Based on TFS track record, I'd guess at the VU without VR somewhere in Q2 2025, VR possibly Q4 2025 and Fort & Wulf somewhere in 2026. At which point the question will likely be, who is going to buy it when CP is barrelling along, and who knows what DCS might do during that time?

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2024 by No.54_Reddog

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, No.54_Reddog said:

Visual Update

- speedtree - not finished

- truesky - not finished

- map visuals - maybe finished?

- VR - clearly nowhere near finished/stable

How could 3 alpha implementations amount to a "beta" test? Was the "beta" opened to those so-called "tourists" with VR crashing from the get go?

[Mysticpuma]

Apparently there is a comprehensive questionnaire coming to ATAG soon in regards to this topic.

No more info. than that at this time.

[No.54_Reddog]

11 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

How could 3 alpha implementations amount to a "beta" test? Was the "beta" opened to those so-called "tourists" with VR crashing from the get go?

I think the semantics around alpha vs beta are somewhat wasted, at the end of the day if TFS call something an alpha, then it's an alpha.

 

Trying to implement 4 different but mutually overlapping and impacting workstreams in a single build was always going to be a challenge and liable to run into problems.

 

I would hazard a guess that if the initial aim wasn't overly ambitious and naive in scope, the lack of contingency planning and ability to react by pulling one or more of the workstreams is at the heart of the delays. 

 

All that remains to be seen now is whether TFS hold course on delivering the 4 constituent parts of the VU as a single package as promised or whether this long heralded questionnaire will give them the answers they are looking for - presumably as to what the community views as MVP and allow them to scale back the deliverables.

[kissTheSky]

While I appreciate the difficulty of updating a game as a hobby, and while I also suspect TFS (grossly) underestimating the challenge of the task(s) they’ve setup for themselves, at this point they’ve become the living embodiment of one of Douglas Adams’s famous sayings.

 

”I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.”

 

So no. At this point, them moving on and letting this game die its slow death would be a kindness. 

[Blitzen]

6 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Apparently there is a comprehensive questionnaire coming to ATAG soon in regards to this topic.

No more info. than that at this time.

Oh boy- A questionnaire...I LOVE doing a questionnaire! It always makes me think I'm accomplishing something , even if I'm not...

[Enceladus828]

7 hours ago, kissTheSky said:

While I appreciate the difficulty of updating a game as a hobby, and while I also suspect TFS (grossly) underestimating the challenge of the task(s) they’ve setup for themselves, at this point they’ve become the living embodiment of one of Douglas Adams’s famous sayings.

 

”I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.”

 

So no. At this point, them moving on and letting this game die its slow death would be a kindness. 

Bull hockey! Deadlines may slip but saying that this game dying would be a gratitude is ridiculous. This is the only chance we have of getting a fleshed out Western Front from 1941 to late 1943 and a fleshed out MTO. To my knowledge those aspects of WW2 have barely been scratched in WW2 combat flight sims except for War Thunder and IL-2 1946 Mods. Right now 1CGS is focused on Korea and then after that a Pacific battle, and probably several more Pacific battles. That will likely bring us to the mid-2030s by the time they decide to return to Europe. If they do it will probably be the Invasion of Sicily. If the devs had followed Jason's plan we would probably have a Battle of Sicily installment with a flyable B-25 and aircraft that can be used during and in the lead up to D-Day. The only other game of this fidelity is Combat Pilot which looks to be only focused on the Pacific, so as I said, CloD is the only chance we have of a mid-war Western Front and a fleshed out MTO (El Alamein and Malta). I wouldn't want to blow it.

 

One can argue that we won't see TF 7.0 and 8.0 until 2029 and 2033 respectively so you do realize that you can start up your own sim to cover those places within a span of 10 years.