Still no single player dynamic campaign?

[Redwo1f]

And here we are with only a  1.6% of a Steam user base having VR headsets (and declining) as work continues on that, yet the game does not even innately offer a single player dynamic campaign. And how long has it been? 🙄

 

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam

Edited October 19, 2024 by Redwo1f

[Aapje]

This is of course a useless statistic, since what really matters is the percentage of combat flight sim buyers who have or plan to get a headset.

 

That few CS2 players have a VR headset is irrelevant.

[Redwo1f]

Do we have any hard data on that?

I am just saying, I would be willing to bet that the population of single players desiring a dynamic campaign greatly surpasses that total number of VR users (though there will be overlap here too).

Anyway, my point is that dynamic campaign seems to have been ignored.

Edited October 19, 2024 by Redwo1f
sp

[Dagwoodyt]

18 hours ago, Redwo1f said:

Anyway, my point is that dynamic campaign seems to have been ignored.

Typical TFS response on a DC request would be: not before TF 6.0, then 6.5 and so on. VR is just the strawman you've chosen.😀

[Thundercracker]

18 hours ago, Redwo1f said:

Do we have any hard data on that?

I am just saying, I would be willing to bet that the population of single players desiring a dynamic campaign greatly surpasses that total number of VR users (though there will be overlap here too).

Anyway, my point is that dynamic campaign seems to have been ignored.

 

Old polls from this site, but its some data at least.

 

40% of the voters (140/350) claimed to use VR.

 

And this one claimed 63% fly vr only (139/219) and 74% (163/219) have access to vr.

 

So either VR usage is growing amongst the visitors of this site or they're more vocal, I'll leave that for you to decide. Clearly someone at TF thinks the VR userbase is a more lucrative one than the single player lot. But going by my experiences in the beta, I'd rather they spent the time producing a dynamic campaign.

 

Edited October 20, 2024 by Thundercracker

[Aapje]

There is no truly hard data unless 1CGS releases their statistics. We had a poll on this forum a long time ago, but it seems rather unreliable and very much out of date anyway. Hoggit did a poll a year ago where half the respondents said that they use VR.

 

But any poll will overcount the most dedicated players, who are more likely to have invested more.

 

But I think that VR is growing ever more. Video cards sufficient for VR are becoming cheaper and now with the Quest 3 and Pimax Crystal Light, we have relatively affordable headsets that are very good.

 

Quote

Anyway, my point is that dynamic campaign seems to have been ignored.

 

That probably requires way more work than VR support and is probably not even feasible without creating a fully new game.

Edited October 20, 2024 by Aapje

[Thundercracker]

3 minutes ago, Aapje said:

But any poll will overcount the most dedicated players, who are more likely to have invested more.

This is probably the biggest issue as VR users looking to make the most out of their 2-3K investment will be more vocal about its implementation, than those who want a dynamic campaign. So to any developer it looks like thats the best way to sell the game.

[Dagwoodyt]

Choose any strawman you like. TF could have done a DC instead of going to NA. The positive created by the VR effort is that it forced TFS to implement one-click mission recording. That's the only new feature I can think of that they've implemented in TF 5.0.

[Mysticpuma]

The sad thing is, years ago there was a guy who offered to create a fully dedicated, coded DCG, but because the single coder was busy with other stuff, he was refused access to a tiny piece of the code he requested, which would make the friendly and enemy pilots act like they were actually team-ma5ea rather than robots. They would fly accurate formations, answer to.radio calls, etc, etc. He was willing to do this as a volunteer, all in his own time....but after being refused the code...he simply closed the door behind him.

 

It is beyond obvious that Single Player should be given some real attention, but as ATAG is the home of TFS and they are mainly focused with online play, Single Player gameplay is very much bottom of the list.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2024 by Mysticpuma
Typo

[Dagwoodyt]

52 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

It is beyond obvious that Single Player should be given some real attention, but as ATAG is the home of TFS and they are mainly focused with online play, Single Player gameplay is very much bottom of the list.

A reason why ATAG registration to participate in a poll might be a non-starter for some.😒

[Lorena_Scout]

The 2d players that never try VR, it's a one way road.

Once you try VR you never go back

[Buzzsaw]

On 10/20/2024 at 8:43 AM, Mysticpuma said:

The sad thing is, years ago there was a guy who offered to create a fully dedicated, coded DCG, but because the single coder was busy with other stuff, he was refused access to a tiny piece of the code he requested, which would make the friendly and enemy pilots act like they were actually team-ma5ea rather than robots. They would fly accurate formations, answer to.radio calls, etc, etc. He was willing to do this as a volunteer, all in his own time....but after being refused the code...he simply closed the door behind him.

 

It is beyond obvious that Single Player should be given some real attention, but as ATAG is the home of TFS and they are mainly focused with online play, Single Player gameplay is very much bottom of the list.

 

 

You are making misleading and incorrect statements which seem to arise from your not having anything to do with the actual management of TF or the negotiations with the mentioned individual.  You are speculating.

 

The Facts:

 

Despite many conversations and discussions, the person who offered to create a DCG would not join TF, would not sign a Non-Disclosure agreement and finally and most importantly, would not agree to sign over the rights to the DCG to TF and 1C... without an agreement to transfer rights, we cannot incorporate or publish anything in the release game.  Without an agreement, the originator of the DCG software could turn around and sue both TF and 1C for the proceeds of the sales of any copies of the game which included the DCG... they could block further sales and require 1C to recall the game and refund purchasers.  No company in the gaming industry will accept software/3D without clear agreement from the contributor the rights to said software/3D is assigned to the purchaser.

 

Members of TF have the opportunity to receive revenue share from elements they contribute to the game... but they must sign an NDA and a contract whereby they agree to turn over the rights to their contribution to TF and 1C/Fulqrum in exchange for their share of revenues.

 

---

 

Regarding a DCG:

 

This is one of our primary goals... but it requires a programmer to dedicate a LOT of time... and our programmers are all currently occupied with VR/Speedtree/trueSKY implementation and the import of aircraft/objects/ships into the game.

 

Once we have a free programmer, this will be on top of the list of work to do... and no, we can't promise it will be ready for TF 6.0.

 

We WILL have a very large number of single player missions/campaigns available for DIEPPE... we have multiple mission builders working on these.

 

 

[Guest deleted@424816]

On 10/20/2024 at 4:43 PM, Mysticpuma said:

The sad thing is, years ago there was a guy who offered to create a fully dedicated, coded DCG, but because the single coder was busy with other stuff, he was refused access to a tiny piece of the code he requested, which would make the friendly and enemy pilots act like they were actually team-ma5ea rather than robots. They would fly accurate formations, answer to.radio calls, etc, etc. He was willing to do this as a volunteer, all in his own time....but after being refused the code...he simply closed the door behind him.

 

It is beyond obvious that Single Player should be given some real attention, but as ATAG is the home of TFS and they are mainly focused with online play, Single Player gameplay is very much bottom of the list.

 

 

 

Here is another player rooting for a dynamic campaign.

 

As far as having to rewrite the engine to deliver such feature, that's not true at all.

One can even point out to the efforts of theOden available at Mission4Today to see how easy it would be to the professional coders to create a true immersive environment for a player to develop his/her own career.

 

This is my first post on this forum. Anyone knows if I can't react to posts because of my (lack of) seniority here?

[Buzzsaw]

35 minutes ago, Cardolan said:

 

Here is another player rooting for a dynamic campaign.

 

As far as having to rewrite the engine to deliver such feature, that's not true at all.

One can even point out to the efforts of theOden available at Mission4Today to see how easy it would be to the professional coders to create a true immersive environment for a player to develop his/her own career.

 

This is my first post on this forum. Anyone knows if I can't react to posts because of my (lack of) seniority here?

Hi Cardolan

 

We entirely support theOden and his work on his DCG.  We think it is a great program.

 

We have approached the theOden multiple times to join TF and officially incorporate his DCG into the game... he does not wish to do this.

 

My understanding its possible the original code for this DCG came from multiple other sources, and thus theOden can't guarantee personal ownership of the rights... thus cannot sign it over to us.

 

From my understanding, this code was developed over approx. 10 years through multiple programmers... it was not a 'easy' write.  It is possible the software is a descendant of the software developed by the person mentioned in my previous post.

 

The offer is still open for theOden to join TF, get revenue share, and bring his DCG into the game... but of course, he must sign an agreement which states the software was originated by him and he agrees TF acquires the rights and can transfer those rights to Fulqrum... but probably for the reasons mentioned, this will not happen and the software will remain an addon outside the game.

[Mysticpuma]

32 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Regarding a DCG:

 

This is one of our primary goals... but it requires a programmer to dedicate a LOT of time... and our programmers are all currently occupied with VR/Speedtree/trueSKY implementation and the import of aircraft/objects/ships into the game.

 

Once we have a free programmer, this will be on top of the list of work to do... and no, we can't promise it will be ready for TF 6.0.

 

We WILL have a very large number of single player missions/campaigns available for DIEPPE... we have multiple mission builders working on these.

 

 

But, with no change to the Ai, even a DCG will be unfulfilling and a waste of a coders time, because programming a DCG is based on how the Ai reacts, any changes to the Ai, completely change the programming of the DCG.

 

Anyway, no one expects promises for V6. we don't even know when V6 will be ready, so there is likely time for an inbuilt DCG. 

Maybe December 2015?

[Guest deleted@424816]

8 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

Hi Cardolan

 

We entirely support theOden and his work on his DCG.

 

We have approached the theOden multiple times to join TF and officially incorporate his DCG into the game... he does not wish to do this.

 

Apparently the original code for this DCG came from multiple other sources, and he can't guarantee personal ownership of the rights... thus cannot sign it over to us.

 

From my understanding, this code was developed over approx. 10 years through multiple programmers... it was not a 'easy' write.

 

Thanks for the swift and informative answer.

 

Hopefully you'll find the time to allocate the resources to pull it off. After all, the VR feature wwill only be important to the % of the players who own the hardware, while a dynamic campaign would improve the product appeal to everyone.

 

Long time veteran of the IL2 series that returned to flight sims recently after a pause of more than 10 years. And if I am here, it is because I managed to find the game has a (third party) dynamic campaign, otherwise I would not be interested.

 

 

Thanks for reading, continue developing the product and safe flights!

[Buzzsaw]

Just now, Mysticpuma said:

But, with no change to the Ai, even a DCG will be unfulfilling and a waste of a coders time, because programming a DCG is based on how the Ai reacts, any changes to the Ai, completely change the programming of the DCG.

 

Anyway, no one expects promises for V6. we don't even know when V6 will be ready, so there is likely time for an inbuilt DCG. 

Maybe December 2015?

We are working on a re-write of the AI routines... as has been mentioned.

[Mysticpuma]

1 minute ago, Buzzsaw said:

We are working on a re-write of the AI routines... as has been mentioned.

Good to know, lots has been mentioned, but little has been seen. I await the update on news of the V6 release and progress with baited breath.

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, Buzzsaw said:

Once we have a free programmer, this will be on top of the list of work to do... and no, we can't promise it will be ready for TF 6.0.

ATM it looks like TF 6.0 might possibly debut in 2026. So would this DCG take priority over the "nightfighter" DLC?

Edited October 23, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[Guest deleted@424816]

15 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

ATM it looks like TF 6.0 might possibly debut in 2026. So would this DCG take priority over the "nightfighter" DLC?

 

 

In my humble opinion, yes. Again and following the logic of my last post, a Dynamic Campaign would benefit the overall experience of the game for eveyone, while a targeted DLC concerning "nightfighters" would only improve the experience of a subset of players.

[Dagwoodyt]

56 minutes ago, Cardolan said:

 

 

In my humble opinion, yes. Again and following the logic of my last post, a Dynamic Campaign would benefit the overall experience of the game for eveyone, while a targeted DLC concerning "nightfighters" would only improve the experience of a subset of players.

To best of my knowledge a DCG was "being worked on" per a TFS Note of ~August 14 2020. I do not recall any followup references to that effort. There does not appear to be any specific reference to a DCG as integral to TF 6.5, 7 or 8. There may be an allusion to something that could be construed as a DCG for TF 7.0. As others have stated, there is little benefit derived from a DCG without an overhaul of AI. There is no point in stating that a DCG will be pursued whenever someone can be freed up for such an effort. It would require an "all hands on deck" approach. Anything less represents lip service to the project. 🤔