Why is there practically no adverse yaw effect modelled ?

[jcdomm]

In all but the transport aircraft ( C-47 and Li-2 ) and the glider CG-4, if I test the effect of adverse yaw there's practically no yaw opposite the direction of roll, even though the aircraft instruments ( turn coordinator, inclinometers, ... ) can actually show huge deflections of the ball or sidelsip cue.

 

In some aircraft I even performed the tests with the engine shutdown, and the prop either windmilling or feathered, just to exclude any overdone slipstream effects.

 

I believe I recall that when arround 2014 I first started using IL-2 in it's eraly access version, adverse yaw was rather noticeable.

 

Might this have been tamed down in order to make live easier for players without the proper controllers ?

 

Pick any of the fighters, flying straight & level, preferably coordinated, initiate a left or right turn using just aileron input eventually with elevator too. Use a point in the windshield  and a point in the Horizon as a reference and see there's no, or just a micrometric, displacement against the roll direction while your turn coordinator / slip indicator will probably show a huge / realistic displacement towards the roll direction.

 

And yes I know some of these aircraft used frise ailerons and/or aileron differential, and the like, but still, adverse yaw would still have to get compensated for in a turn, and after all, IL2 instruments show it, but the flight path doesn't...

 

A good demonstration can be seen here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wrZ0h41iF0

 

Any ideas welcome!

 

Thank you!

Edited October 16, 2024 by jcdomm

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Well , I asked about same thing years ago. 

[jcdomm]

Took me some good time, and I seldom use either DCS or IL2... I honestly think both suffer from the same "tameness" when it comes to adverse yaw...

 

I was suspecting it until I watched that vid at the "Flight Model Review" YT Channel, and "Voilà" there was the evidence, two palms away from my nose when at the desktop playing IL-2 ... It's IMO more lacking even in IL-2 than it is in DCS, and it always has felt strange to me that while the instruments were saying - kick the rudder - the visual references were not even by far showing the need for it...

 

Would just like to understand why they chose to do it that way?

Edited October 16, 2024 by jcdomm

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

49 minutes ago, jcdomm said:

Took me some good time, and I seldom use either DCS or IL2... I honestly think both suffer from the same "tameness" when it comes to adverse yaw...

 

I was suspecting it until I watched that vid at the "Flight Model Review" YT Channel, and "Voilà" there was the evidence, two palms away from my nose when at the desktop playing IL-2 ... It's IMO more lacking even in IL-2 than it is in DCS, and it always has felt strange to me that while the instruments were saying - kick the rudder - the visual references were not even by far showing the need for it...

 

Would just like to understand why they chose to do it that way?

The ball show you if you are skiding or slipping,  plane nose should give you visual that yours plane initially oppose the turn without rudder used.

It must be elevator in action to observe adverse yaw since elevator turn the plane  not ailerons.

Desktop joystick have short travel compared to RL and unfortunately this makes them very sensitive and game have some compensation mechanics implemented. Maybe it also damp the effect.

Edited October 16, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[[CPT]Crunch]

Why in a strong wind are you required to trim a P-38 to center the ball, some things are just plain strange in the way they're coded.

Edited October 17, 2024 by [CPT]Crunch

[jcdomm]

8 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

Why in a strong wind are you required to trim a P-38 to center the ball, some things are just plain strange in the way they're coded.

 

In flight?

[jollyjack]

Well, if the devs would imply adverse yaw in the game the whole IL2 GB must be called Flying Circus.

Wonder how other sims have that embedded.

 

Would be interesting anyway in regards if wind speed and direction if added:

https://inspire.eaa.org/2020/08/12/adverse-yaw-what-is-it/

Edited October 18, 2024 by jollyjack

[Gavrick]

All aircraft have this effect.
For fighters - on average - it is about +-1.5...2 degrees of yaw with full roll stick deflection at speeds of about 300 km/h.