Question on F-84 Markings

[LukeFF]

I am researching tactical codes right now for the career mode and am looking at F-84 units right now. I notice it is common for planes to have an A, B, or C letter after the "buzz number" painted on the nose. What did this signify? I've seen aircraft within the same squadron have these letters, so I wonder if it possibly means a flight desingation.

 

For instance, this is a photo from the 9th FBS, and you can see planes with both "B" and "C" markings:

 

[MajorMagee]

In this case they pulled the last three digits of the serial number on the tail for the buzz number. In some cases there could be duplicates at the three digit level, so I assume they added the letter code to differentiate.

 

F-84 Serial Number Series

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

In this case they pulled the last three digits of the serial number on the tail for the buzz number. In some cases there could be duplicates at the three digit level, so I assume they added the letter code to differentiate.

 

F-84 Serial Number Series

 

Aha, yes, that's probably what it was. Thanks!

[migmadmarine]

Especially if that is the case, it would be great to see whatever new form the decal system takes be able to generate serial numbers for the tail of US aircraft. 

[LukeFF]

Yes, I think for at least some planes we will have the registration number on the tail. I'm going through the late Joe Baugher's serial number list right now, so every squadron should have the exact tail numbers of planes that flew with each unit. 

 

https://www.crouze.com/baugher/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

[[CPT]Crunch]

I'd put money on it has to do with divisions within a squadron, mainly for maintenance purposes.  What jet is assigned to which maintenance flight or shift, which are usually designated by a letter.  Maintenance is always broken down to smaller sub levels its the best way for the greatest gains in efficiency.  Odds of repeating tails in a unit is almost nill, and to have a triple repeater requiring a C, not buying that one. 

 

From a maintenance perspective you'd instantly know which jets are assigned to your flight without having to memorize every serial just by looking down the line.  Than you can zero in on the specific number your assigned to work. 

[MajorMagee]

Perhaps, but then it's hard to explain the ones that don't have a letter suffix.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

https://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

Quote

The system used two letters and three numbers, painted as large as practically feasible on each side of the fuselage and on the underside of the left wing. The two letter code identified the type and model of the aircraft, and the three digits consisted of the last three numbers of the serial number. For example, all fighters were identified by the letter P (later changed to F), and the second letter identified the fighter type. For example, the buzz number code for the F-86 Sabre was FU, for the F-100 Super Sabre it was FW. The buzz number for F-100A 53-1551 was FW-551, the buzz number for F-86D 53-1020 was FU-020.

 

On occasion, two planes of the same type and model would have the same last three digits in their serial numbers. When this happened, the two aircraft were distinguished by adding the suffix letter A to the buzz number of the later aircraft, preceded by a dash.

 

So it seems MajorMagee is right. As for the problem with the odds that [CPT]Crunch points out, from what I understand, the buzz number was unique USAF-wide rather than within a unit. So the F-84 with serial number 651 would be FS-651; the one with serial number 1651 would be FS-651-A; 2651 would become FS-651-B and so on. With some 7500 Thunderjets built, it doesn't seem all to strange that you see so many As, Bs and even Cs.

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

https://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

 

So it seems MajorMagee is right. As for the problem with the odds that [CPT]Crunch points out, from what I understand, the buzz number was unique USAF-wide rather than within a unit. So the F-84 with serial number 651 would be FS-651; the one with serial number 1651 would be FS-651-A; 2651 would become FS-651-B and so on. With some 7500 Thunderjets built, it doesn't seem all to strange that you see so many As, Bs and even Cs.

 

Aha, yes, now that makes more sense. Thanks! Now I think I know what to do with this.

[LukeFF]

3 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

With some 7500 Thunderjets built, it doesn't seem all to strange that you see so many As, Bs and even Cs.

 

Yes, very much so. I've created a spreadsheet of the range of serial numbers, starting from the very beginning and ending with the Korea-era serials, so it's a relatively simple task to find out whether a buzz number needs a corresponding letter attached to it.

[Bell]

10 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

So the F-84 with serial number 651 would be FS-651; the one with serial number 1651 would be FS-651-A; 2651 would become FS-651-B and so on.

The actual situation is this:

 

PS-500 45-59500 P-84B-3-RE
PS-500-A 47-1500 P-84C-6-RE
FS-500-B 51-500 F-84E-25-RE

 

PS-510 45-59510 P-84B-3-RE
PS-510-A 47-1510 P-84C-6-RE
FS-510-B 51-510 F-84E-25-RE

 

PS-538 45-59538 P-84B-11-RE
PS-538-A 46-538 P-84B-21-RE
PS-538-B 47-1538 P-84C-11-RE
FS-538-C 51-538 F-84E-25-RE

 

PS-544 45-59544 P-84B-11-RE
PS-544-A 46-544 P-84B-21-RE
PS-544-B 47-1544 P-84C-11-RE
FS-544-C 51-544 F-84E-25-RE

 

PS-548 45-59548 P-84B-11-RE
PS-548-A 46-548 P-84B-21-RE
PS-548-B 47-1548 P-84C-11-RE
FS-548-C 51-548 F-84E-25-RE
FS-548-D 51-9548 F-84E-31-RE

 

PS-558 45-59558 P-84B-16-RE
PS-558-A 46-558 P-84B-21-RE
PS-558-B 47-1558 P-84C-11-RE
FS-558-C 51-558 F-84E-25-RE
FS-558-D 51-9558 F-84E-31-RE

 

PS-565 45-59565 P-84B-16-RE
PS-565-A 46-565 P-84B-21-RE
PS-565-B 47-1565 P-84C-16-RE
FS-565-C 51-565 F-84E-25-RE
FS-565-D 51-9565 F-84E-31-RE

 

PS-581 45-59581 P-84B-16-RE
PS-581-A 46-581 P-84B-26-RE
PS-581-B 47-1581 P-84C-16-RE
FS-581-C 51-581 F-84E-25-RE
FS-581-D 51-9581 F-84E-31-RE

 

PS-588 46-588 P-84B-26-RE
PS-588-A 47-1588 P-84C-16-RE
FS-588-B 51-588 F-84E-25-RE
FS-588-C 51-9588 F-84E-31-RE

 

PS-651 46-651 P-84B-36-RE
FS-651-A 48-651 F-84D-1-RE
FS-651-B 51-651 F-84E-30-RE

[LukeFF]

Yes, for instance, this F-84 from the 523rd FS: https://pangsmodelsandhobbies.com/products/republic-f-84-thunderjet-523-fes-1951-usaf-1-72-scale-assembled-and-painted-model

It carries the buzz number of FS-490-B and is an E model. With that information in mind:

 

The first F-84 with the buzz number 490 was a YP-84A-RE, so its buzz number was PS-490. 

 

The second F-84 with buzz number 490 was an F-84C-6-RE, so its buzz number was FS-490-A.

 

The third F-84 with buzz number 490 (and the one depicted in the model) was an F-84E-25-RE and hence was marked as FS-490-B.

[migmadmarine]

On 10/3/2024 at 11:05 AM, LukeFF said:

Yes, I think for at least some planes we will have the registration number on the tail. I'm going through the late Joe Baugher's serial number list right now, so every squadron should have the exact tail numbers of planes that flew with each unit. 

 

https://www.crouze.com/baugher/usaf_serials/usafserials.html

I am very pleastantly surprised to hear it, that is great. 

[Rjel]

On 10/3/2024 at 2:01 PM, migmadmarine said:

Especially if that is the case, it would be great to see whatever new form the decal system takes be able to generate serial numbers for the tail of US aircraft. 

Without the S/N on the tail, USAF aircraft would look a little naked as the U.S. airplanes in GB look now.

[migmadmarine]

3 hours ago, Rjel said:

Without the S/N on the tail, USAF aircraft would look a little naked as the U.S. airplanes in GB look now.

It does look like the tail S/N was a bit less standard in the 50s than in WWII, but yea, I agree. Will be phenomenal to have as an option.