Bf-109 vs soviet planes

[Snowball77]

Is it me or the 109 especially the g4 variant completely curbstomp any soviet plane in this game? Yak9, P-39, you name it. I find the p-39 especially ------, tends to stall a lot, it's slower, acceleration is bad compared to the 109 and last but not least two bullets and whole thing is on fire.I don't have the la-5 so idk, the yak 9 can handle it's own but i find it to be slower, the 9t it's cool but basically useless against fighters imo

Edited September 21, 2024 by LukeFF
Profanity

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

There are one pilot on the comunity which fly P-39 and beat any german plane with his finger tip.

 

This is why i respect alot the P-39.

 

Regards.

[MaxPower]

I find the same thing when playing single player.  I think it's a combination of the 109's characteristics and the AI... it might have something to do with pilot quality .

Given their stats, I think they ought to have fairly similar turning characteristics.  They have more or less similar stall speeds and top speeds- the P-39 being a bit higher than the others.  The P-39L has fairly high jump horsepower in emergency mode, but only a 1 minute duration.  The Bf-109 G-4 has a high power to weight advantage, so I'd imagine this would offset it's higher wing loading.

The Bf-109's power to weight ratio is between 10 and 20 percent higher than the other two aircraft so it has a massive climb rate advantage, outclimbing both aircraft even in combat mode.  This (and all other performance advantages) increase with altitude, especially above 2000 meters.

I did some calculations based on Count Zero's top speed stats and found the following.  Any errors are mine.

On the deck:
In Emergency Mode, the 109 and the P-38 have a time limit of 1 minute.  The Yak has no time limits.  The P-39 has a large top speed advantage over both aircraft.  The 109 is slightly faster than the Yak.
In Combat mode, the 109 has a slight top speed advantage over the P-39 and the Yak is slightly faster.
The 109 has superior climb rate to both aircraft in either engine mode.

At 2000m:
The P-39's speed advantage in Emergency mode is now 8km/h.  The Bf-109's speed advantage in Combat mode is about the same as it was at SL.
The Yak's speed disadvantage while the 109 is in Emergency mode has increased.  In the Bf-109's Combat mode, the 109 now has a 10 km/h advantage.
At this altitude, the 109's climb rate is superior to both aircraft in any engine mode.  From here on up, the 109's superiority only improves vs. the P-39.  The 109's climb advantage over the Yak stays about the same from SL to 4000m with a little variation depending on the altitude and the yak's super charger gear.

By 4000m both allied aircraft's engine power have fallen off of a cliff.  Their supercharger's are no longer able to keep the engine supplied with enough oxygen to produce peak power.  The Bf-109's supercharger is good to 7500m.

Down low, the Bf-109 should be able to tangle with either aircraft but escape by top speed is not guaranteed.  The 109's advantages are weakest on the deck.  The 109 has a pretty big climb advantage but using climb as a means of escape is kind of tricky.  However, if you enter the fight with an energy advantage, you should be able to maintain it pretty easily, in which case it'll be a very hard fight for either allied aircraft.  This is what I find against the AI.  If I start smart, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.  I can continue until I run out of ammo.  Then, I climb away and head home.  I'd imagine that crafty online players can be a handful no matter what they're flying.

Edited September 21, 2024 by MaxPower

[KodiakJac]

4 hours ago, GOA_Bf109Pilot_VR said:

There are one pilot on the comunity which fly P-39 and beat any german plane with his finger tip.

 

This is why i respect alot the P-39.

 

Regards.

 

Would that be Daniel or Albert?

 

[Snowball77]

@MaxPower Exactly that's what I noticed too, the 109 has a massive climb advantage, and despite what people say about the ai being dumb, it's smart enough to not let you drag them in a close dogfight at low speed where the yak can pretty easily defeat the Messerschmitt, I noticed I can catch them with the yak if the go in a dive though. Btw couldn't resist so I got the La-5FN too now that's on sale, and I love it, the armament is a lot better than the yak and the P-39 and it's also faster, still I don't think it's on par with the bf-109 in terms of climb rate and overall performance 

[MaxPower]

I think in boosted mode, the La-5FN should have an all around large performance advantage against axis 1943 aircraft below 3000m.  In 1943, German aircraft performance steadily degrades until the adoption of MW50.  I think you should have a change in fortunes flying that aircraft 😃

[Snowball77]

Oh well, I just did a couple of sorties but yeah..I love it, it's a beast. Maybe I was just so used to be stomped by the ai that I got the impression that it could still outclimb me

[MaxPower]

Climb rate is based not on engine power but the engine power you have left over from drag, and also the power margin you have over the hauling around the aircraft's weight.  Therefore, climb rate is pretty sensitive to what you're carrying, like ammo and fuel.  If you have a lot of fuel and ammo and they have a little, it's your worst case scenario for a climbing contest.  Your radiator positions and stuff should also influence this a bit.

Aircraft have a speed where drag is the lowest, so it's also sensitive to airspeed.  Your max climb speed should be around 245 km/h.  This is an estimation and I think the technochat tells you what's best when you set off from the aerodrome.  "Climb at xx km/h".  Because your aircraft has a higher top speed, your comparative climb rate should improve the faster you go.  Your climb rate will get lower but theirs will get lower faster.  The closer to an aircraft's top speed, the less engine power they have to spend on climbing.  At their top speed, they have zero energy left for climbing/turning/etc.  The aircraft with the higher top speed will have the higher climb rate at some speed.

There's also the illusion where an aircraft with more energy to start with seems to be the better climber, but what they're actually doing is entering a zoom climb.  You can equalize the energy state by entering a shallow dive and accelerating.  The more they chase you, the more the energy states equalize.  There's other ways of doing this too.  This one is handy if they don't have position where they can easily get a gun solution.  It also helps to have the faster aircraft and/or have a power-to-weight advantage, which you do.

Edited September 21, 2024 by MaxPower

[the_emperor]

above 1000m the Yaks/Laggs engine do start to lose its breath fast in climb and dogfight situations.

 

 

[ECV56_Necathor]

Normally you can out turn 109s one big issue now is the G´s effect on soviet planes, soviet pilot really easy go in a black out and 109´s pilot can hold 8-9 G´s without even go to gray vision. At the end the 109s can turn at full speed but russian fighters have to reduce the power to 0 to avoid fade out. That is not possible, position of the seat on 109s can give some advantage but not at that point.

Another point that I saw really unusual is when you see a 109 at your six that match your speed and altitude, at that point both planes have the same energy but in the game the 109s can hold a vertical ascension with only his motor like have no air or gravity restriction.