IL-2 4th Generation Future Titles

[Lord_Cool]

 

16 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I like your idea about doing beyond Korea but I don't think that it is going to happen, or at least any time soon. The age of dogfighting on a large scale started to diminish after Korea (as far as I know). There was the Vietnam War of course, and the various Arab-Israeli Wars over the latter decades of the 20th century, but you've got to remember that there were also a lot of aircraft shot down by surface to air missiles, which isn't really sporting when it comes to replicating real life missions and pilot career. However I will say that the way you have made this suggestion is pretty good and you do have some good points. I'm sure something like a Vietnam War multiplayer server would prove itself to be very popular. Dream on!

 

A fictional conflict as a potential means of expanding and progressing jet content? It appears to be a good way to add jet content without resorting to scraping together some minor conflict which saw limited air activity (relative to WW2 and Korea). Other combat sims have used fictional scenarios (like F4.0) and been successful, plus you're less constrained by what aircraft types you can use . Powerful interceptors like the Su-9, Su-15, Tu-128, F-101B and F-106 would be amazing to see in a sim but that's probably stretching it a bit.

[Jackfraser24]

After the Pacific is done how likely would the go to the Eastern Front next? Would it be a popular choice?

Edited October 11, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

5 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

After the Pacific is done how likely would the go to the Eastern Front next? Would it be a popular choice?

Whatever they choose, majority part of one geographical audience would see it as most popular other would disagree.

[Aapje]

7 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

After the Pacific is done how likely would the go to the Eastern Front next? Would it be a popular choice?

 

I think that this question is impossible to answer right now, because it almost certainly depends on how well Korea and The Pacific are received. 1CGS is of course going to look at the sales figures, and if for example, The Pacific proves highly popular, they may make a lot of modules in that region. On the other hand, if it sells relatively poorly, they may return to Europe much sooner.

[Avimimus]

 

If they end up doing 8 flyable, 2 collector, and 3-4 AI for each module - then they can cover the space of three modules with two modules.

 

If I were them I'd do:

2025 - Korea

2027 - Pacific 1

2028 - Pacific 2

2030 - Western Europe 1

2032 - Easter Europe 1

2034 - Western Europe 2

2036 - Eastern Europe 2

2038 - Pacific 3

2040 - New WWI sim? Mediterranean? Europe 3?

 

At the same time I'd hand off Flying Circus to a third party to allow a Flying Circus Vol. 5 (which would finish up WWI) and port the new infantry technology back into Great Battles (and maybe drop-tanks or AI fixes) for an 'anniversary edition' (with a corresponding price bump for new purchases)... aiming for release around 2028.

 

Ideally, they'd increase the size of the team to allow parallel development... and double the release rate, allowing us to have everything listed by 2031. So I'm strongly hoping that this series is very successful and they'll be able to further expand their number of modellers/engineers.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

3 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

2040 -

OMG depressive 😅

[Avimimus]

1 minute ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

OMG depressive 😅

 

Yes, and most of the (weirder) stuff I'm interested in would be in the post-2040 era... things like the Fw-189 and Fi-156 pr Pe-3 are unlikely to be prioritised for the first couple of waves of development! We could really do with them doubling the size of their aircraft building team to allow speeding this up.

[Trooper117]

3 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Whatever they choose, majority part of one geographical audience would see it as most popular other would disagree.

 

Absolutely... I don't want to see the Eastern Front for at least the next 10 years!

[Mysticpuma]

10 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

After the Pacific is done how likely would the go to the Eastern Front next? Would it be a popular choice?

Not for me. MTO is a theatre that needs attention.

[Enceladus828]

7 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

Not for me. MTO is a theatre that needs attention.

Agree but I doubt we’ll see it until there are 3 PTO installments ☹️

[ThePops]

On 10/7/2024 at 10:44 PM, Lord_Cool said:

 

 

Other combat sims have used fictional scenarios (like F4.0) and been successful, plus you're less constrained by what aircraft types you can use.

Indeed. When it comes down to it, t's all about creating an immersive atmosphere that stands on its own two feet, like F4.0 is a very good example of. It's all make believe anyway. This is what IL2-Korea will be judged by. Hopefully it will succeed, and in doing so, they can expand any way they like. Personally I would like a cold war direction, mostly because WWII is starting to become worn out.

[Trooper117]

1 hour ago, ThePops said:

WWII is starting to become worn out.

 

WWII will never be worn out... there are still theatres to be done that have nothing to do with the eastern front!

[Jackfraser24]

16 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

WWII will never be worn out... there are still theatres to be done that have nothing to do with the eastern front!

I absolutely agree with you. After Korea, I’d like to see them do Midway (because Midway was a turning point in the Pacific and was a highlight in IL-2 1946), the Coral Sea (also an important battle and popular in IL-2 1946), New Guinea (same two reasons plus it was a lengthy campaign), the Marianas (same two main reasons I gave) and Okinawa (same two reasons plus it was the last major battle of WWII). After the PTO, I’d like to see them do Burma (because the campaign is long overdue for a modern representation in combat flight simulation, though I don’t know how well it would sell) and British Malaya (because there is no representation of the historic campaign in combat flight simulation whatsoever) before the series moves onto the MTO. There I think North African battles should be given attention like Tobruk, El Alamein (1st and 2nd) and Tunisia before they go on to Sicily (Operation Husky) and mainland Italy (the Gustav Line). I’d like to see them do the Battle of Crete (and the air operations that were conducted by the Luftwaffe and Regia Aeronautica after it’s takeover and until the final surrender surrender of Axis forces in Crete and the Aegean in May 1945) as well as Malta (because it’s possession was heavily wagered in the skys over those islands). Then I think the Battle of Normandy could really do with a much more contemporary representation in combat flight simulation, so they could have cities like Paris and London available to fly over (plus the Invasion of Normandy’s significance should not be overlooked in this new series). Northwest Europe (Battle of the Bulge, Operation Bodenplatte, Operation Market Garden) should also be at least considered because of its significant contribution to the final defeat of German forces. Then they could focus on the Eastern Front.

 

But let’s see where this all goes though. I think I jumped the gun a bit here! What are your thoughts on this?

 

 

 

 

 

[Avimimus]

I think we need to avoid being selfish here. Some people will propose five or more PTO modules while decrying any ETO modules, some want four ETO module before going to the WTO, others think it is  time to do the MTO... others really want WWI.

 

We should recognise that there are a lot of different people, with different interests, and two modules (20 flyable, 8 AI) for each theatre is a more realistic goal. So, I think it is advisable to focus our debates on which two modules and which set of twenty aircraft we want for each theatre (as opposed to arguing that some theatres shouldn't exist at all).

 

For the Pacific I'd like New Guinea: It has a variety of earlier and mid-war aircraft, it has some Japanese Army aircraft (as well as IJN), it has extensive ground support, and it could even feature a PT Boat (why not?)

 

For the ETO I'd like 1942 with some unusual aircraft: I-153, IAR-80, Fw-189, Fi-156 and the Mig-3, Pe-3, P-39 (as well as classics like the Ju-87, Bf-109F).

 

For WTO I'd probably just remake an improved version of Battle of Normandy (really liked that plane set). Although, Italy would also make sense.

 

For WWI I'd continue building out Flying Circus for a bit, and maybe port the infantry tech into it.

[Jackfraser24]

34 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

I think we need to avoid being selfish here. Some people will propose five or more PTO modules while decrying any ETO modules, some want four ETO module before going to the WTO, others think it is  time to do the MTO... others really want WWI.

I think you’re right about the avoid being selfish part. People do have different preferences and whether it’s WWI, WWII or tank battles, they should all be addressed at least to a degree. But I think that WWI combat flight simulation should take a back seat and let Flying Circus sell for a while while they focus more on WWII in the air and on the ground (tanks and other AFVs). 

[BlitzPig_EL]

A Flying Tigers DLC to the Pacific would be a great idea, as it would cover not only China, but Burma as well, and also is a way to include the RAF (Brewsters, Blenheims, maybe Hurricanes), and even the I16 in the Pacific area early on.

 

 

Not to mention the IJAAF cohort of aircraft.

Edited October 13, 2024 by BlitzPig_EL

[Jackfraser24]

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

A Flying Tigers DLC to the Pacific would be a great idea, as it would cover not only China, but Burma as well, and also is a way to include the RAF (Brewsters, Blenheims, maybe Hurricanes), and even the I16 in the Pacific area early on.

 

 

Not to mention the IJAAF cohort of aircraft.

Good suggestion. I’d really like to see a representation of the Burma campaign for combat flight sim. I don’t think it has been done ever in combat flight sim history (please correct me if I am wrong). I’d also like to see Spitfire Mk.VIII’s, Hurricane Mk.IV’s, P-39Q’s and P-40N fighting against Japanese planes like the A6M5, Ki-43, Ki-44 and Ki-84 as well. And least shall we forget bombers like the B-25, Ki-67 and G4M and cargo planes like the C-46 and C-47. 

[MajorMagee]

Don't forget that the new engine requires you to be a regimental commander planning missions and arranging logistics, and not just a flyboy pilot. The China / Burma theater will be a fight with shortages (for both sides) as much is it will be with the enemy.

[Jackfraser24]

On 10/13/2024 at 3:56 AM, Trooper117 said:

 

WWII will never be worn out... there are still theatres to be done that have nothing to do with the eastern front!

I still like your idea of a British Malaya Campaign. I really think it could sell well enough to turn a profit. 

[Trooper117]

14 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

Don't forget that the new engine requires you to be a regimental commander planning missions and arranging logistics, and not just a flyboy pilot.

 

Yes, this is the bit I dislike... I want to be a rookie pilot starting from scratch to work towards being a commander! That is the way I would like to play the game.

 

[Jackfraser24]

On 10/14/2024 at 11:25 PM, Trooper117 said:

 

Yes, this is the bit I dislike... I want to be a rookie pilot starting from scratch to work towards being a commander! That is the way I would like to play the game.

 

What if we could have our cake and eat it too?

[Jackfraser24]

On 10/11/2024 at 10:33 PM, Avimimus said:

If I were them I'd do:

2025 - Korea

2027 - Pacific 1

2028 - Pacific 2

2030 - Western Europe 1

2032 - Easter Europe 1

2034 - Western Europe 2

2036 - Eastern Europe 2

2038 - Pacific 3

2040 - New WWI sim? Mediterranean? Europe 3?

If I were them I would do:

2025 - Korea

2027 - Midway

2029 - New Guinea

2031 - Marianas

2033 - Okinawa

2035 - Tobruk/El Alamein

2037 - Tunisia/Sicily

2039 - Italy

2041 - Britain

2043 - Stalingrad

2045 - Moscow

2047 - Kursk

2049 - Berlin

 

I don't want to go on any further down the line. Too scary.

 

[David_4555]

Are we really trying to scheme what should come out in 25 years time? Let's focus on Korea first shall we, we'll see about the rest

[Enceladus828]

On 10/16/2024 at 7:12 PM, Jackfraser24 said:

If I were them I would do:

2025 - Korea

2027 - Midway

2029 - New Guinea

2031 - Marianas

2033 - Okinawa

2035 - Tobruk/El Alamein

2037 - Tunisia/Sicily

2039 - Italy

No thank you for Midway. We're already getting that in Combat Pilot along with a flyable B-17, so it doesn't make much sense to go there when someone else is covering it very nicely. Would make more sense to do New Guinea. Things no doubt will overlap with 1CGS Pacific and CP but doing a full-on Midway installment wouldn't make sense when there are many other places of the Pacific that could be done.

With Tobruk/El Alamein, I'd rather they do Sicily first, that would be more interesting and can be the median of MTO battles -- go backwards to Tunisia or Rommel's retreat after El Alamein, or the March Up Italy.

[Jackfraser24]

50 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

No thank you for Midway. We're already getting that in Combat Pilot along with a flyable B-17, so it doesn't make much sense to go there when someone else is covering it very nicely. Would make more sense to do New Guinea. Things no doubt will overlap with 1CGS Pacific and CP but doing a full-on Midway installment wouldn't make sense when there are many other places of the Pacific that could be done.

With Tobruk/El Alamein, I'd rather they do Sicily first, that would be more interesting and can be the median of MTO battles -- go backwards to Tunisia or Rommel's retreat after El Alamein, or the March Up Italy.

At the end of the day we can only wait and see what comes.

[Jackfraser24]

IL-2 Eastern Front Titles

• IL-2 Stalingrad (Why - Too important to leave out because it was the biggest turning point of the Eastern Front.)
• IL-2 Moscow (Why - Also too important to leave out because it was the first turning point of the Eastern Front and the start of Soviet counteroffensives.)
• IL-2 Kuban (Why - Marked the point of the final expulsion of Axis forces from the Caucasus. Would act as a chronological sequel to Stalingrad.)
• IL-2 Kursk (Why - One of the largest tank battles of WWII. There were large scale operations of IL-2 and Ju-87 sorties.)
• IL-2 Crimea (Why - Multiple battles fought there during WWII between 1941 -44.)
• IL-2 Bessarabia (Why - Part of the Jassy Kishnev Offensives and was a decisive campaign as it lead to Romania leaving the Axis and switching to the Allies.)
• IL-2 Courland (Why - A long campaign that lasted from July 1944 to May 1945. Also could include the East Prussian Offensive and the fall of Konigsberg to the Soviets)
• IL-2 Berlin (Why - It was the final end game of the Eastern Front. Massive battle.)
• IL-2 Karelia (Why - It would include the Siege of Leningrad. Would be very popular among players.)

[Jackfraser24]

On 10/19/2024 at 4:56 AM, Enceladus828 said:

With Tobruk/El Alamein, I'd rather they do Sicily first, that would be more interesting and can be the median of MTO battles -- go backwards to Tunisia or Rommel's retreat after El Alamein, or the March Up Italy.

What if they made a module covering the Battle of Malta, the Tunisian Campaign, Operation Husky, and the Italian Campaign? Could it work, or would the map be too big for our computers to run?

Edited October 21, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[Mysticpuma]

3 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

What if they made a module covering the Battle of Malta, the Tunisian Campaign, Operation Husky, and the Italian Campaign? Could it work, or would the map be too big for our computers to run?

I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[MajorMagee]

Check this out then. A Work In Progress

[Mysticpuma]

10 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

Check this out then. A Work In Progress

CFS3?

[MajorMagee]

Yes, new maps are still being developed.

[Jackfraser24]

How well would a First Indochina War module sell with French forces fighting the Vietnamese?

Edited October 23, 2024 by Jackfraser24

[AEthelraedUnraed]

On 10/21/2024 at 4:15 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

Could it work, or would the map be too big for our computers to run?

The limiting factor is their map building team rather than the system requirements. I think to cover the Battle of Malta, the Tunisian Campaign, Operation Husky, and the Italian Campaign up to mid-1944, one could do with an 800x800km map. That's about 2.5 times the map surface of Korea, but most of it is water so in land surface area (i.e. workload for their map team) it's probably similar.

 

Like Mysticpuma, I would buy it in a heartbeat

 

On 10/19/2024 at 11:02 PM, Jackfraser24 said:

IL-2 Eastern Front Titles

• IL-2 Stalingrad (Why - Too important to leave out because it was the biggest turning point of the Eastern Front.)
• IL-2 Moscow (Why - Also too important to leave out because it was the first turning point of the Eastern Front and the start of Soviet counteroffensives.)
• IL-2 Kuban (Why - Marked the point of the final expulsion of Axis forces from the Caucasus. Would act as a chronological sequel to Stalingrad.)
• IL-2 Kursk (Why - One of the largest tank battles of WWII. There were large scale operations of IL-2 and Ju-87 sorties.)
• IL-2 Crimea (Why - Multiple battles fought there during WWII between 1941 -44.)
• IL-2 Bessarabia (Why - Part of the Jassy Kishnev Offensives and was a decisive campaign as it lead to Romania leaving the Axis and switching to the Allies.)
• IL-2 Courland (Why - A long campaign that lasted from July 1944 to May 1945. Also could include the East Prussian Offensive and the fall of Konigsberg to the Soviets)
• IL-2 Berlin (Why - It was the final end game of the Eastern Front. Massive battle.)
• IL-2 Karelia (Why - It would include the Siege of Leningrad. Would be very popular among players.)

I think this list misses some obvious choices, like the current IL2 does: some locations in the west of the Soviet Union, like Smolensk or Minsk. Those would enable combat in both the great German push of 1941, as well the later Soviet counteroffensives of 1943 and 1944. Twice the bang for your bucks, so to speak.

 

It should be noted that both the upcoming maps for IL2 do feature this.

[BlitzPig_EL]

8 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

How well would a First Indochina War module sell with French forces fighting the Vietnamese?

I think a Spanish Civil War scenario has more opportunities for virtual pilots, and we all have seen how little traction that scenario has.

There is so much material for them to cover in the Pacific that we could have years and years of gameplay in that theatre alone.

Edited October 23, 2024 by BlitzPig_EL

[David_4555]

On 10/21/2024 at 4:15 AM, Jackfraser24 said:

What if they made a module covering the Battle of Malta, the Tunisian Campaign, Operation Husky, and the Italian Campaign? Could it work, or would the map be too big for our computers to run?

TFS are making a lot of the MTO in the future for Cliffs of Dover. Not ideal compared to newer games but better than nothing

Edited October 24, 2024 by David_4555

[Enceladus828]

7 hours ago, David_4555 said:

TFS are making a lot of the MTO in the future for Cliffs of Dover. Not ideal combared to newer games but better than nothing

There’s nothing saying that 1C can’t do the Tunisia Campaign which would also allow players to do the Siege of Malta and Operation Husky. That would sell better and be more ideal than a full fledged Siege of Malta installment. An El Alamein Tank Crew installment could follow Tunisia.

[Lord_Cool]

I'd be surprised if they don't eventually do at least one other title with jet era content should Korea go well. It seems odd that they would give us a taste of jets and go to all that effort simulating jets, only to never use them again in any other title and proceed to do only WWII content. Of course there's more WWII theatres to do, but it would be a real shame not to delve deeper into the relatively unexplored yet very popular planes of the cold war era.

Edited October 24, 2024 by Lord_Cool

[Jackfraser24]

17 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I think this list misses some obvious choices, like the current IL2 does: some locations in the west of the Soviet Union, like Smolensk or Minsk. Those would enable combat in both the great German push of 1941, as well the later Soviet counteroffensives of 1943 and 1944. Twice the bang for your bucks, so to speak.

 

It should be noted that both the upcoming maps for IL2 do feature this.

Maybe they could make a map of the western fringes of Western Russian SSR, Belarusian SSR, and the Baltics and call it Bagration: IL-2. A module covering the entirety of Operation Bagration would be a huge hit among players. It would cover the Battle of Smolensk, the Minsk Offensive, the Battle of Narva, the Courland Pocket and the East Prussian Offensive. I know it would be a mammoth task for the map builders but I am sure that their work would pay off. 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

8 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

Maybe they could make a map of the western fringes of Western Russian SSR, Belarusian SSR, and the Baltics and call it Bagration: IL-2. A module covering the entirety of Operation Bagration would be a huge hit among players. It would cover the Battle of Smolensk, the Minsk Offensive, the Battle of Narva, the Courland Pocket and the East Prussian Offensive.

I think for those players interested in the Eastern Front, it might be the most interesting module possible since it features both the legendary German pushes of 1941 and the Russian ones of 1944.

 

8 hours ago, Jackfraser24 said:

I know it would be a mammoth task for the map builders but I am sure that their work would pay off. 

Yeah with the current map building technology it would be too much work basically. But I think to be future-proof, 1CGS eventually needs to step away from their current antiquated map building techniques and invest in some serious automation. I've been thinking about this, and theoretically there's nothing that prevents you from loading a high-res historical map (e.g. this one of some piece of Byelarus) and have a neural net convert it into ready-made forest and water maps, as well as roads, cities and the basic terrain texture layers. Speaking as someone who trains neural nets, the basic functionality would realistically take me 4 to 6 months to get it to perform satisfactorily; then add another 1 to 3 months for each of the roads/cities/terrain texture features. A comparatively big time investment, but once it's finished it'd give you basically free map creation. Of course you'd likely still need some amount of manual labour to add flavour, clean up any inconsistencies and add airfields, but you'd have a basic map in a heartbeat.

 

As a matter of fact, I already have some working code that can automatically add villages to the Rheinland map based on real-life locations and village sizes. These villages also nicely blend into the "road network" of the background terrain. The problem is that it requires a rather large village template file, and that I've never had the time to finish it. Should there be anyone who's interested in endlessly placing village textures on a map for hours on end, feel free to contact me

[Jackfraser24]

23 hours ago, Lord_Cool said:

I'd be surprised if they don't eventually do at least one other title with jet era content should Korea go well. It seems odd that they would give us a taste of jets and go to all that effort simulating jets, only to never use them again in any other title and proceed to do only WWII content. Of course there's more WWII theatres to do, but it would be a real shame not to delve deeper into the relatively unexplored yet very popular planes of the cold war era.

I'd really like the to do Vietnam. I know that they probably won't do Vietnam, but I think that it would be a huge hit, both single player wise and multiplayer wise.