Either I'm impressively bad, or the statement that the 109 is a great beginner's plane is a lie.

[Patricks]

I was joking...  (should have put a wink in there, sorry).

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by Patricks

[BlitzPig_EL]

It is pretty to think about though.

[Lens7]

On 8/21/2024 at 12:42 AM, HazMatt said:

Good to hear your back at it! The normal server can be good at times and completely suck at other times.

 

Ah yes. The magical Tempest and trees. Two buzzkills lol.

 

If you haven't yet you may want to install SRS for IL2 as I find it very useful on Combat Box. 

I might, but first I'll need to decide on a pack more modern than Stalingrad, because the only plane I seem to be able to fly on either side is the Stuka, and I have no delusions about being able to be of any use in that on this server, considering even trying to do something on WoL, which is older in timescale, is a hit or miss for me right now.

[Patricks]

1 hour ago, Lens7 said:

I might, but first I'll need to decide on a pack more modern than Stalingrad, because the only plane I seem to be able to fly on either side is the Stuka, and I have no delusions about being able to be of any use in that on this server, considering even trying to do something on WoL, which is older in timescale, is a hit or miss for me right now.

 

Depends on what you would like to fly, and where.. (can also add collector planes of course).

 

Battle of Normandy - P-51B/C, Spitfire Mk.IXc, P-47D-22 “Razorback”, Typhoon Mk.Ib, Mosquito F.B. Mk.VI, Bf 109 G-6 “Late”, Fw 190 A-6, Ju 88 C-6a and Me 410 A-1 “Hornisse”.

 

Battle of Bodenplatte - P-51D, P-47D, Spitfire Mk.IX, Tempest Mk.V, Bf 109 G-14, Bf 109 K-4, Fw 190 A-8 and Me 262

 

Battle of Moscow - I-16 Type 24, Bf 109 E-7, Bf 109 F-2 and MiG-3 Series 24 fighters, IL-2 mod. 1941 ground-attack plane, Bf 110 E-2 heavy fighter, Pe-2 Series 35 and Ju-88 A-4 bombers

 

Battle of Stalingrad (which you own) - Bf 109 F-4, Bf 109 G-2, LaGG-3 Series 29 and Yak-1 Series 69 fighters, IL-2 mod. 1942 ground-attack plane, Ju 87D-3 "Stuka" dive bomber, He 111 H-6 and Pe-2 series 87 bombers.

 

Battle of Kuban - Yak-7b Series 36, Bf 109 G-4 and legendary P-39L-1 Aircobra fighters, Fw 190 A-5 fighter/bomber, IL-2 AM-38F (mod. 1943) ground-attack plane, Bf 110 G-2 heavy fighter, A-20B and He 111 H-16 bombers.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2024 by Patricks

[Lens7]

46 minutes ago, Patricks said:

 

Depends on what you would like to fly, and where.. (can also add collector planes of course).

 

Battle of Normandy - P-51B/C, Spitfire Mk.IXc, P-47D-22 “Razorback”, Typhoon Mk.Ib, Mosquito F.B. Mk.VI, Bf 109 G-6 “Late”, Fw 190 A-6, Ju 88 C-6a and Me 410 A-1 “Hornisse”.

 

Battle of Bodenplatte - P-51D, P-47D, Spitfire Mk.IX, Tempest Mk.V, Bf 109 G-14, Bf 109 K-4, Fw 190 A-8 and Me 262

 

Battle of Moscow - I-16 Type 24, Bf 109 E-7, Bf 109 F-2 and MiG-3 Series 24 fighters, IL-2 mod. 1941 ground-attack plane, Bf 110 E-2 heavy fighter, Pe-2 Series 35 and Ju-88 A-4 bombers

 

Battle of Stalingrad (which you own) - Bf 109 F-4, Bf 109 G-2, LaGG-3 Series 29 and Yak-1 Series 69 fighters, IL-2 mod. 1942 ground-attack plane, Ju 87D-3 "Stuka" dive bomber, He 111 H-6 and Pe-2 series 87 bombers.

 

Battle of Kuban - Yak-7b Series 36, Bf 109 G-4 and legendary P-39L-1 Aircobra fighters, Fw 190 A-5 fighter/bomber, IL-2 AM-38F (mod. 1943) ground-attack plane, Bf 110 G-2 heavy fighter, A-20B and He 111 H-16 bombers.

 

 

I knew well enough about what planes are in each pack, the question is which one is more likely to get me more 'mileage', so to speak. Doesn't help that my two primary choices are on two different fronts, and the planes I like in each are on opposite sides.
One could argue that's actually a benefit in that I get to experience more of the game, but OTOH splitting attention might mean I'm less effective overall rather than focusing on one. (because I know full well I do not have some 'fundamentals' to fall back on)

Said packs would be either Kuban or Normandy. For Kuban it's the 110 and Fw that have my interest in particular, whereas for Normandy it's the allied planes, I'm a sucker for the Mosquito. 
I might've even gone for the deluxe edition of Normandy if it was with that that we got the P-38 rather than being a separate collector's plane or part of BoBP.

[HazMatt]

I think I got BoB on sale for $19 without the add on planes. Have no use for the Arado and forgot what the other one is. It gives you all the latewar rides, however for me I found the G6 the best for beating the Tempest but it would probably be doable with the G14. Axis vs most of the latewar rides like spits, temp, 51d etc is a hard go unless you just straight up and b&z them from what I've see. Given equally skilled pilot in a knifefight in a phoneboot the edge would go to the allie plane in my opinion.

[c19580]

9 hours ago, Lens7 said:

I knew well enough about what planes are in each pack, the question is which one is more likely to get me more 'mileage', so to speak.

he was trying to be helpful. A simple thanks could have been a much better alternative to this sentence.

[BOO]

Taking a 110 onto a server can be a soul destroying experience if you intend to John Wayne it. AA and AAA can be ridiculously accurate, players will loiter over targets for easier kills and later war scenarios put you up against some seriously gunned up and fast foe who will likely hunt and overhaul you after the event as there is nothing else going on.

 

Your rear gunner isnt great but can be instructed to hold fire until the enemy closes but thats a risk in itself with 20mm canon and 6/8 .50 cals shootng at you. Taking additional armour might help but if you loose an engine you wont have enough power to do much. If you do loose an engine and can keep it in the air, youll be slow, likely obvious and taking a direct route and will often apprach home only to find some detractors loitering nearby. 

 

Flying 110s as a squad or a decent if casually organised group , especially those that that also provide some fighter cover is a different and ,generally, more survivable/enjoyable, experience if there is some organisation. 

 

The alternative is to find something that can haul bombs but can get out of dodge fast with a little more agility I guess. 

 

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

I think the player has to adapt to the game, rather than expecting to do whatever they want and be successful.

Tactics are everything.

 

As Boo says - if you want to do some damage and get oot of Dodge - the '190 might be a good idea.

 

As someone who's spent a lot of time in 110's, there's a lot to consider if you expect to survive a sortie :

• Your route to and from the target - is it what the enemy are expecting ?
• Are you coming in / going out at high altitude or on the deck ?
• Are you trying to get escorts or lone wolfing it ? 
• Are you doing one bomb run or hanging around the target for a long time ?
• Are you scanning the target area on approach for enemy defenders ?
• Are you able to squeeze max performance out of your plane when needed ?
• Are your evasion and escape tactics good enough ?
• Can you do your own rear gunning ?

There's a few things.

 

For what it's worth, the most adrenaline pumping moments I've had in a 110 - are getting chased home.

Sometimes the bandit will break off and return to the target area, as he really should do once you're limping away.

It's amazing how many times I conk out meters before / right on / just beyond the 'county line'.

If I get over that I can safely bail and live to fight another sortie.. losing some of my points bonus of course but I live !

There's little more satisfying for me than limping a knackered 110 back to base after a chase.

Of course death comes easy living on the edge like this, but it's great fun.. and only a game at the end of the day.

 

S!

[BOO]

I have no idea how servers set up their AA these days but being first on target at server start with a 180 degree curved glide/dive to carry as much speed out in the direction of home tended to be the most survivable. Single pass hauling ass.  After that, returns dimished very quickly. 

 

The mindset of accepting the risk and doing it "for the team" also helps but rarely did I find a "team" worth dying for on a general MP server. Most seemed to be happy cruising about in the stratosphere worrying about thier stats whilst GA players left it on the field (Also guilty as charged when i flew fighters). 

 

The best experience for me has always been as a part of an organised squad. Nothing quite beats rolling in on a target with 4-6 110s covered by 4-8 109s, all on coms, all with tactics. But then I was lucky to be surrounded by a fantastic squad at the time (SCG) with a well organised, friendly and well lead GA element under the charge of the much missed and respected CorZero. 

[HazMatt]

2 hours ago, BOO said:

Taking a 110 onto a server can be a soul destroying experience if you intend to John Wayne it. AA and AAA can be ridiculously accurate, players will loiter over targets for easier kills and later war scenarios put you up against some seriously gunned up and fast foe who will likely hunt and overhaul you after the event as there is nothing else going on.

 

Your rear gunner isnt great but can be instructed to hold fire until the enemy closes but thats a risk in itself with 20mm canon and 6/8 .50 cals shootng at you. Taking additional armour might help but if you loose an engine you wont have enough power to do much. If you do loose an engine and can keep it in the air, youll be slow, likely obvious and taking a direct route and will often apprach home only to find some detractors loitering nearby. 

 

Flying 110s as a squad or a decent if casually organised group , especially those that that also provide some fighter cover is a different and ,generally, more survivable/enjoyable, experience if there is some organisation. 

 

The alternative is to find something that can haul bombs but can get out of dodge fast with a little more agility I guess. 

 

 

If you want to fly a 110 on combat box you can tell the bot your target and eta and the bot will try to vector fighter cover to assist. Also you could ask for escort if you really want to fly a 110. My choice is a 190 with the 3 250kg bomb package.  I like to make a bomb run on the way in and a strafing run on the way out and haul butt. I survive more then I don't with these tactics.

[Patricks]

I think the best bet is to only fly the Ta 152 H-1 at 30,000 feet, dive down, take a shot, then back up on the perch.. 

[Lens7]

Thanks a lot for everyone's inputs, and apologies to @Patricks if I came off rude in my initial mention about 'mileage'. 

The points about the 110 are very solid, and enough to convince me that maybe its not a good idea for me to try it out for now at least, while I'm still utterly soaked behind the ears. And yes, communication is key and I have finally gotten around to installing SRS to get onto the combat box properly, if my experience with WoL was any indication, the Allied side tends to have much better teamwork compared to the Axis.

Which on top of my understanding that most Allied planes in Normandy have some sort of gyro sight, (iirc it's the P-51 and the spitfire and yes, is a crutch and will not help me learn properly) would help me at least suck marginally less in one department rather than all of them, has me think to maybe go for Normandy once it's on sale.

[HazMatt]

2 hours ago, Lens7 said:

Thanks a lot for everyone's inputs, and apologies to @Patricks if I came off rude in my initial mention about 'mileage'. 

The points about the 110 are very solid, and enough to convince me that maybe its not a good idea for me to try it out for now at least, while I'm still utterly soaked behind the ears. And yes, communication is key and I have finally gotten around to installing SRS to get onto the combat box properly, if my experience with WoL was any indication, the Allied side tends to have much better teamwork compared to the Axis.

Which on top of my understanding that most Allied planes in Normandy have some sort of gyro sight, (iirc it's the P-51 and the spitfire and yes, is a crutch and will not help me learn properly) would help me at least suck marginally less in one department rather than all of them, has me think to maybe go for Normandy once it's on sale.

Curious why you would pick BoN over BoB? BoB has the latest and greatest including the 262 which I found to be pretty much invulnerable unless you get stupid.

[BOO]

2 hours ago, Lens7 said:

Thanks a lot for everyone's inputs, and apologies to @Patricks if I came off rude in my initial mention about 'mileage'. 

The points about the 110 are very solid, and enough to convince me that maybe its not a good idea for me to try it out for now at least, while I'm still utterly soaked behind the ears. And yes, communication is key and I have finally gotten around to installing SRS to get onto the combat box properly, if my experience with WoL was any indication, the Allied side tends to have much better teamwork compared to the Axis.

Which on top of my understanding that most Allied planes in Normandy have some sort of gyro sight, (iirc it's the P-51 and the spitfire and yes, is a crutch and will not help me learn properly) would help me at least suck marginally less in one department rather than all of them, has me think to maybe go for Normandy once it's on sale.

 

I wouldnt view the Giro sight as a crutch. It has its own issues especially if you cant replicate the throttle handle twist adjusting whatever it adjusts well. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

6 hours ago, HazMatt said:

If you want to fly a 110 on combat box you can tell the bot your target and eta and the bot will try to vector fighter cover to assist. Also you could ask for escort if you really want to fly a 110. My choice is a 190 with the 3 250kg bomb package.  I like to make a bomb run on the way in and a strafing run on the way out and haul butt. I survive more then I don't with these tactics.

The same bot who's telling the other team the same target is under attack, don't think so.  Let the bot figure it out itself, after the fact.

[Lens7]

1 hour ago, HazMatt said:

Curious why you would pick BoN over BoB? BoB has the latest and greatest including the 262 which I found to be pretty much invulnerable unless you get stupid.

What do you think I am?🙂

Also now that you make me think of it proper, it was probably a mix of:

-The Mosquito's actually pretty cool in my opinion, the first 'WW2 flight game' (it was actually just this sort of arcade flier type thing more than any real sim and I forgot the actual name) I played basically had me flying that more than anything.

-I liked the idea of something slightly different in a map, with the English Channel being a nice mixup compared to the map of Stalingrad (though I'll be honest it's not very likely I was gonna be doing a lot of free flying before, though I might consider doing it now to get a better understanding of my planes before actually trying to fight in them)
-Something about it being *too* far into the future to be of use in WoL at any point. 

While yes, Combat Box exists, and (as mentioned) have installed SRS, something has me hesitating to get on board for some reason. Is it maybe feeling like I'll botch a lot of things and then throw in the towel and I'd rather try to at least make myself some sort of 'presentable' before I get on the server? Maybe. Idk. 

But I must say you do make a good point with the BoB question. The fact that the premium edition comes with the P-38 is a bonus. 

(Odd how I prefer heavier fighters for WW2 while I'm more a light fighter guy for more modern sims, is it me just having a penchant for playing with some sort of disadvantage with nothing to make up for it? 😛)

[BubiHUN]

Flying the 109s is beginner friendly, but fighting is the hardest.

[HazMatt]

1 hour ago, Lens7 said:

What do you think I am?🙂

Also now that you make me think of it proper, it was probably a mix of:

-The Mosquito's actually pretty cool in my opinion, the first 'WW2 flight game' (it was actually just this sort of arcade flier type thing more than any real sim and I forgot the actual name) I played basically had me flying that more than anything.

-I liked the idea of something slightly different in a map, with the English Channel being a nice mixup compared to the map of Stalingrad (though I'll be honest it's not very likely I was gonna be doing a lot of free flying before, though I might consider doing it now to get a better understanding of my planes before actually trying to fight in them)
-Something about it being *too* far into the future to be of use in WoL at any point. 

While yes, Combat Box exists, and (as mentioned) have installed SRS, something has me hesitating to get on board for some reason. Is it maybe feeling like I'll botch a lot of things and then throw in the towel and I'd rather try to at least make myself some sort of 'presentable' before I get on the server? Maybe. Idk. 

But I must say you do make a good point with the BoB question. The fact that the premium edition comes with the P-38 is a bonus. 

(Odd how I prefer heavier fighters for WW2 while I'm more a light fighter guy for more modern sims, is it me just having a penchant for playing with some sort of disadvantage with nothing to make up for it? 😛)

The thing about the 262 is it's unstoppable if you're fast (even if you're low) and if you have a few K of alt, it's still unstoppable because you put the nose down and accelerate like a runaway train. The only way to really get killed it it is to get it low and slow.

 

I like Mossie too and used to fly it a lot back in the day when I placed another game. (I don't want to say which one because somebody might say that discussion of it doesn't belong here) I've tried it here but the modeling is different and I didn't have success doing the same moves that worked in the other sim so I would have to relearn it.

 

I didn't even think about the maps because I mostly fly online. For sure pick the map you like. One thing that I would do if you want to get good in the 109 is to practice flying it slow and nose up. If you're going to B&Z with it it's still a good idea to get a feel for it slow. I use the rudder a lot in this situation and have been pretty successful.

 

Dunno what's WoL.

 

Combat box: Tune to channel 2. say. "tower request callsign lonestar 5" (it has to be one of the call signs the bot knows) after you do that the rest doesn't matter.

You can: "request taxi" "request take off" "request mission" "request emergency landing" etc but other then getting your callsign at the beginning, none of this other stuff is needed. I would start by just getting a callsign.

 

I do have the 38 on one of my accounts that I bought as an add and if you're doing air to ground it can carry some monster bombs (if they're enabled) Pretty fast too.

 

May people think I'm odd too because I'll jump into a 3 vs 1 on the deck which is usually sewercide but I must be odd because I enjoy it.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

The smart thing to do, and the fun thing to do are sadly often not the same.

[Lens7]

15 hours ago, HazMatt said:

I didn't even think about the maps because I mostly fly online. For sure pick the map you like. One thing that I would do if you want to get good in the 109 is to practice flying it slow and nose up. If you're going to B&Z with it it's still a good idea to get a feel for it slow. I use the rudder a lot in this situation and have been pretty successful.

 

Dunno what's WoL.

 

Combat box: Tune to channel 2. say. "tower request callsign lonestar 5" (it has to be one of the call signs the bot knows) after you do that the rest doesn't matter.

You can: "request taxi" "request take off" "request mission" "request emergency landing" etc but other then getting your callsign at the beginning, none of this other stuff is needed. I would start by just getting a callsign.

 

I do have the 38 on one of my accounts that I bought as an add and if you're doing air to ground it can carry some monster bombs (if they're enabled) Pretty fast too.

 

May people think I'm odd too because I'll jump into a 3 vs 1 on the deck which is usually sewercide but I must be odd because I enjoy it.

I'll give that bit in the 109 a go today, it's gonna be helpful especially so I can prolly feel its slowing down without needing to look at the panel constantly.

As for WoL, that's the Wings of Liberty Server that iirc is one of the official ones too but without icons and stuff.
 

I take it there's some sort of list for callsigns the bot knows that I can refer against before getting the rest done?

[BlitzPig_Bill_Kelso]

I will let the cat out of the bag for this new guy.

 

Trim on a slider...

 

Perhaps the best fighter ace in IL2 history, EVER. Used this to great effect while crushing his opponents. So much so that people hated him. But hey, haters gonna hate and be super jealous at his awesomeness as a fighter pilots and a dope DJ.

Say his name...

RayBanJockey 

[HazMatt]

6 hours ago, Lens7 said:

I'll give that bit in the 109 a go today, it's gonna be helpful especially so I can prolly feel its slowing down without needing to look at the panel constantly.

As for WoL, that's the Wings of Liberty Server that iirc is one of the official ones too but without icons and stuff.
 

I take it there's some sort of list for callsigns the bot knows that I can refer against before getting the rest done?

 

Ah. I haven't flow on that server in a bit.

 

Callsignes for SRS include: Anvil, Banshee, Cowboy, Dropkick, Eagle, Falcon, Grizzly, Hellcat, Iceman, Jackal, Nighthawk, Lonestar, Maniac, Neptune, Outlaw, Panther, Quicksand, Raven, Scorpion, Tomahawk, Uncle, Voodoo, Wizard, Yamaha, Zombie

 

You can use the numbers 1 through 9 as well so you could request Iceman 5 or Nighthawk 9 for example. A flight of 2 will usually request callsigns like Panther 1 and Panther 2 for example.

 

I don't have my trim on a slider but I do trim the 109 to fly level at 200kph. You will need to adjust your trim to be competitive in a 109.

[Lens7]

On 8/24/2024 at 10:24 PM, HazMatt said:

I don't have my trim on a slider but I do trim the 109 to fly level at 200kph. You will need to adjust your trim to be competitive in a 109.

I've got my trim on one of the X52 wheels, so that's not a problem. 
What is a problem is how I seem to still be terrible at both energy management and gunnery. 

Especially since one too many times any I seem to lose control if I make a last second adjustment for angle off (which I seem to always guess wrong, big surprise) even at 300-400kph. 

Thought I'd try the Yak-1 to see how it is on the other end, I'm even more confused how do I keep getting wolloped by this thing, considering my attempts at flying and dogfighting in it are even worse. I thought the faster firing cannon might offset any issues I have with gunnery in a slashing attack, but that doesn't seem to be it. 
Doubly so how while predictably I am unable to catch any 109 in a straight line, I never seem to be able to escape when I'm the one flying it. Break turns similarly seem to be of little use, even when pulling as much as 8 Gs. While I've learned to check my six more, I still seem to only catch em once I can see their shadow.

Also while I'm here, how does one actually win in a rolling scissors? I just seem to always lose, and breaking off ends up with a plane on my six and a swiss cheesed pilot. I'm guessing its once again some energy stuff that despite all the theory reading just doesn't seem to work for me?
 

I really don't want to rage quit again. 

As for combat box, I tried SRS and joining, but it seems that with BoS the only plane I can fly period is the Stuka, which while may be good for 1942, isn't gonna fly in '44/45. Especially with how bad I am

[ShamrockOneFive]

20 hours ago, Lens7 said:

Also while I'm here, how does one actually win in a rolling scissors? I just seem to always lose, and breaking off ends up with a plane on my six and a swiss cheesed pilot. I'm guessing its once again some energy stuff that despite all the theory reading just doesn't seem to work for me?

Rolling Scissors is a place that you generally don't want to be because it's like a jousting match where you're now in a very tight competition to see who can get ejected out infront. The smallest difference will involve a loss or victory. It involves careful energy management and good knowledge of just what your airplane can do versus theirs. Ultimately you want to bleed enough speed that they end up infront of you while maintaining enough energy to continue the scissors.

 

ACTL of course has an entire video devoted to it.

 

 

I want to remind again that not everyone is going to be great at doing the fighter pilot thing. IL-2 offers so much more than that with attacker, bomber, and utility aircraft.

[HazMatt]

On 9/5/2024 at 1:24 PM, Lens7 said:

Also while I'm here, how does one actually win in a rolling scissors? I just seem to always lose, and breaking off ends up with a plane on my six and a swiss cheesed pilot. I'm guessing its once again some energy stuff that despite all the theory reading just doesn't seem to work for me?
 

I really don't want to rage quit again. 

As for combat box, I tried SRS and joining, but it seems that with BoS the only plane I can fly period is the Stuka, which while may be good for 1942, isn't gonna fly in '44/45. Especially with how bad I am

 

Rolling scissors is a tough go as your opponent has to play your game. If I'm flying a 109 and the guy I'm after starts to scissors I usually pull up and hang it on the prop to avoid an overshoot. I have had some success forcing P-51s to overshoot when I was flying a 190 but in my experience most of the P-51 drivers fly that plane because they are lacking in skill. lol

 

I wouldn't say "rage quitting" is a bad thing if you need some time to cool off

 

I think the plane sets rotate on combat box but then again, I would say to get on of the expansions with a P51 in it. There was actually a 262 available once when I was flying on combat box. They funny thing about it it that it was only available from a forward base so it was a bit scary trying to get it off the ground and some alt without getting bounced.

 

[Lens7]

I have returned after about a week, mostly because a sale dropped and I have finally got the BoB dlc. and I can concur it's great. Ground attacking in both the P-47 and 190 are an absolute joy, and that seems to be my calling moreso than being a fighter, pain olympics be damned ;p.

Also a quick run against AI for dogfighting (just for the sake of it) has me believe ever so slightly that maybe it isn't just that I suck, even if I do, but also that maybe the 109 just doesn't click for me the way the 190 does. 

While it was against the normandy P-47s (I don't recall the exact model) on average AI and me using 108s (I ran out after the first or second though), I have never scored a theoretical Ace in a flight in this game. In the 109 I'd at absolute best maybe pull 2 kills if I'm lucky. When I'm not I'm just out turned and on a death spiral after the first hits. 

I can genuinely see why Tank described the 190 as a warhorse, and I'm all for it. I love this plane. 

And I find it amusing that I'm so far more successful strafing with the P-47 than anything. Why are hangars so susceptible to .50 cal again?

[Patricks]

As my brother used to say,  "there's a seat for every ass, just have to find the right one"... glad you are a bit happier now.

[Lens7]

On 9/17/2024 at 10:31 PM, Lens7 said:

Also a quick run against AI for dogfighting (just for the sake of it) has me believe ever so slightly that maybe it isn't just that I suck, even if I do, but also that maybe the 109 just doesn't click for me the way the 190 does. 

While it was against the normandy P-47s (I don't recall the exact model) on average AI and me using 108s (I ran out after the first or second though), I have never scored a theoretical Ace in a flight in this game. In the 109 I'd at absolute best maybe pull 2 kills if I'm lucky. When I'm not I'm just out turned and on a death spiral after the first hits. 
 

So that appears to have been either a fluke, or a major flaw on the part of the P-47's design, because I am doing much worse with anything else.

What level of abysmal my energy management is, is beyond me because it seems that somehow Hurricanes and Yak-1s are perfectly capable of following and shooting an A-8 if I do as much as anything beyond running away in a straight line (in a dive). 
Any attempts at rope a dopes are met with failure, BnZ is out of the question if after the merge (be it part of the basic 1v1 dogfight or the plane doing a 180 with minimal apparent energy loss as part of the initial pursuit setting (where I'm starting with a kilometer of height advantage) for a multiple v multiple dogfight reduced to a 1v1) the bandit is just perpetually at my six and any turns just bring me into his guns range. 

Is really the only answer to 'get someone else while you play bait'? Because otherwise there just seems to be nothing I can do to face off the AI. Turning isn't the Anton's forte unless I'm against something much, much worse (which I presume may have been the aforementioned P-47) and it seems any vertical maneuvers aren't working either, since they seem to follow along just well enough. All that happens is a 5-15 minute turning which is either neutral or defensive. Because somehow despite having this endless reservoir of energy, they're never fast enough to overshoot.

Now before you ask 'why the hell are you still doing this didn't you say you're happier with ground attack'?
I'd like to at least be able to *somewhat* defend myself in these new planes which are meant to be fighter bombers, rather than them just be faster virtual coffins.

[Patricks]

You must be a lot of fun at parties... even I am getting depressed reading your posts. 

[Lens7]

1 hour ago, Patricks said:

You must be a lot of fun at parties... even I am getting depressed reading your posts. 

Tell me something I don't know. The docs said I'm some medical miracle for functioning however well I do with a terrible mood like that. 

Wait, no they said I'm a medical anomaly. 

(This is a joke btw, but yes I know I am terribly, terribly depressive.)

[Patricks]

5 hours ago, Lens7 said:

Tell me something I don't know. The docs said I'm some medical miracle for functioning however well I do with a terrible mood like that. 

Wait, no they said I'm a medical anomaly. 

(This is a joke btw, but yes I know I am terribly, terribly depressive.)

 

@Lens7, the whole idea of sim flying / racing / whatever is to ENJOY it! You had a brief moment of enjoyment doing ground attack, go back to that and have some fun! Get high, dive down and blow up the objective, then RUN at high speed until clear and regain alt. Do not feel the need to engage in turn fights. Only attack a plane if you have a complete advantage, at high speed, and then RUN. RTB, and do it again.. I really hope you can find some enjoyment in this... 

Edited September 19, 2024 by Patricks

[HazMatt]

21 hours ago, Lens7 said:

So that appears to have been either a fluke, or a major flaw on the part of the P-47's design, because I am doing much worse with anything else.

What level of abysmal my energy management is, is beyond me because it seems that somehow Hurricanes and Yak-1s are perfectly capable of following and shooting an A-8 if I do as much as anything beyond running away in a straight line (in a dive). 
Any attempts at rope a dopes are met with failure, BnZ is out of the question if after the merge (be it part of the basic 1v1 dogfight or the plane doing a 180 with minimal apparent energy loss as part of the initial pursuit setting (where I'm starting with a kilometer of height advantage) for a multiple v multiple dogfight reduced to a 1v1) the bandit is just perpetually at my six and any turns just bring me into his guns range. 

Is really the only answer to 'get someone else while you play bait'? Because otherwise there just seems to be nothing I can do to face off the AI. Turning isn't the Anton's forte unless I'm against something much, much worse (which I presume may have been the aforementioned P-47) and it seems any vertical maneuvers aren't working either, since they seem to follow along just well enough. All that happens is a 5-15 minute turning which is either neutral or defensive. Because somehow despite having this endless reservoir of energy, they're never fast enough to overshoot.

Now before you ask 'why the hell are you still doing this didn't you say you're happier with ground attack'?
I'd like to at least be able to *somewhat* defend myself in these new planes which are meant to be fighter bombers, rather than them just be faster virtual coffins.

A8 is a tough go for me as a dogfighter. I've done the best with it in multi plane fights where my target it distracted or when I bounce somebody. When I do fly a 190 on the online servers I tend to use them in the attack role. I use the cloud cover on the way to the target. Drop bombs and maybe make a strafing run or two if it's clear and then run like hell until I'm back over friendly airspace. After that I will climb some and look for targets of opportunity. I for one have not had success with the 190 in dogfighting but I have fought some that did very well. (the ones that I've fought seemed to use a lot of rudder when fighting and worked for overshoots and snapshots.

 

I think the planes for easy mode dogfighting are the spit and the tempest (not sure it still will be after the flight model update)

 

 

[spreckair]

Just remember that a fair fight is 50-50, so run. 

Spot every aircraft before it gets close to you; its the one that you don't see soon enough that kills you.

Be very patient and enter combat only when you have the biggest advantage; usually more altitude and speed (i.e. energy), and friends (if possible).

 

But most of all, don't take it so seriously.  Sometimes I break all of the rules just to have fun.

Edited September 19, 2024 by spreckair

[HazMatt]

2 hours ago, spreckair said:

But most of all, don't take it so seriously.  Sometimes I break all of the rules just to have fun.

Same. We get unlimited lives and planes

[-TBC-AeroAce]

As someone that game from GA flying in real life I was always flying to the slip ball in combat sims. I have recently found out that is not a good idea. In the 109 especially you can really step on the rudder pedals and it will stop a lot of the bricky behaviour.

[MaxPower]

The P-47 has its best advantage vs the A-8 above 2000m.  On the deck is like the best cast scenario for the A-8 and worst case scenario for the P-47 in a comparative match up.  190s in general have a high stall speed, but the Thunderbolt's is even higher.  That said, the 47 has much more efficient flaps and the ability to set them at any angle.

If the 47 has 150 grade fuel and the 190 has c3 injection, both aircraft should perform relatively similar on the deck.  Likewise at 'unmodified' emergency power for both aircraft should also perform pretty similar on the deck at 50 percent fuel.  I think the P-47's emergency power time limit is much lower, though.  The 47 has a higher fuel fraction (5 percent higher) so taking full loads of fuel will penalize the P-47 more.

I would suggest taking less fuel or burning off a lot of fuel climbing before getting into combat in the P-47.  Combat above 2000m should work best for the P-47 vs. the A-8.  Don't be afraid to add some flaps if necessary.  At full power the P-47 should have a top speed and climb rate advantage.  I think its best climb speed is pretty high, like 270 km/h, but try to climb at whatever speed the tech talk tells you.  The A-8 is not the best turner but neither is the P-47 so I would advise you to use your horsepower advantage to maintain a higher energy state, and stay away from the deck.

[KodiakJac]

I've read on more than a couple of occasions that 90% of the kills during WWII were achieved by 10% of the pilots.  And most WWII fighter pilots never got a single kill.  Welcome to reality.  You are often going up against sim pilots with 1000s of hours of experience in this sim alone.  And they will continue to encourage you, because someone's got to feed the lions 😄

 

And they are sincere in their encouragement and advice, although they know that few are willing to invest the amount of time it took for them to become lions.  I have a pilot's license and aerobatic training in a Great Lakes Sport Trainer...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJhoRwWlhiQ 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOaeZLSm-k

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm6tl1We0d0

 

...but I am cannon fodder on the MP servers.  The lions on the MP servers could eat Günther Rall himself for breakfast if he were to show up in his 1943 form.

 

And you may become a lion, too.  But it will take many, many, many hundreds of hours of flight time IN THIS SIM, if not thousands, to do it.

 

Good luck! 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2024 by KodiakJac

[Lens7]

5 hours ago, KodiakJac said:

I've read on more than a couple of occasions that 90% of the kills during WWII were achieved by 10% of the pilots.  And most WWII fighter pilots never got a single kill.  Welcome to reality.  You are often going up against sim pilots with 1000s of hours of experience in this sim alone.  And they will continue to encourage you, because someone's got to feed the lions 😄

 

And they are sincere in their encouragement and advice, although they know that few are willing to invest the amount of time it took for them to become the lions.  I have a pilot's license and aerobatic training in a Great Lakes Sport Trainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJhoRwWlhiQ but I am cannon fodder on the MP servers.  The lions on the MP servers could eat Günther Rall himself for breakfast if he were to show up in his 1943 form.

 

And you may become a lion, too.  But it will take many, many, many hundreds of hours of flight time IN THIS SIM, if not thousands, to do it.

 

Good luck! 

Thanks, I'll need it. Though I'm seeing that I'm finding more fun in being a vulture (though that's probably not the proper term, since IIRC vulching is something usually not looked upon favorably, nor is it what I'm actually doing, it's more ground pounding from on high that I'm doing anyways with a sort of diving down) and striking down on ground targets, ships in particular are something I'm enjoying as they're nice, big and slow but still valuable. 

As for the Air to Air thing, I can vouch for the fact that the tempest is a damn good plane. So much so I'm actually wondering if I'm going to be getting some things wrong in the long run, but at least my gunnery is starting to get a bit better. 4 20mms almost seems illegally good in comparison to the earlier stuff I've been flying, while still being on a sufficiently maneuverable and fast aircraft in a way that's spoiling me. I'm actually getting some PvP kills interspersed with AI ones (at least when my heuristic of 'round wings: allied; flat tipped wings: axis doesn't fail me and have me chasing a P-51, ideally seeing its roundel before getting a Friendly Fire warning), plus the feedback of cannon explosions helps me know when I got the right angle off, something I struggle getting with the P-51's 50cals (which seem to be much weaker against planes than hangars, though it could just be I need to get used to the American sights and I'm actually missing a lot)

On the Air to Ground front, I've been putting time into combat box (mostly locked into the Axis side because they have the only ground attack fighter I can fly, no 51s or 47s for the allies rn) and starting to not feel so bad about being a bad dogfighter because turning this into a game of cat and mouse is a mite more fun for now. I actually passed a spit some 700 meters away and he didn't seem to care, funnily enough, maybe he didn't see me. Also a 1000kg bomb with rudimentary pop up attack approach is helping me a good bit in contributing. 
 

Edited September 22, 2024 by Lens7

[Zooropa_Fly]

When I fancy a change from ground pounding, I'll often get in a fighter and circle one of our targets to defend against enemy ground pounders.

I hope this is what you mean by 'vulching'.

If you're hanging around enemy bases then that's a bit lame imo !

 

Anyway, a 190 is obviously good for this, and I have a strange fetish for the Mig in this role.

Sometimes you can wait long enough for some action, but a wait tends to focus the mind when the situation arises.

 

I think the Tempest is the uber plane at the moment.

Almost God mode.

But it might be getting a tweak soon.. ?

 

S!