Request: Hey Loft! - What do you think of the Oculus Rift? :-)

[Freycinet]

 

...Just interested in your opinion... Maybe even related to flightsims...  :-)

[JG27_Chivas]

Oculus Rift, great equipment for flight simulation, but I don't know whether BoS supports it or not.

That's Loft in the pic above, taking the Oculus Rift back to Russia to see if its something they want/can implement in BOS.   I think he will find its a perfect fit for any flightsim, but what will the cost  be in time and monies to implement.   Personally I'll be drawn to the combat flight sim that does implement it.  VR is a feature that will draw far more people to the genre than anything we've seen in the past.  Users will actually feel like they're flying.  Sitting in front of a monitor won't give you that much immersion, as your peripheral view tells exactly where you are.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Chivas

[Freycinet]

I think it will be a watershed as well. And Loft, Jason, Zak et al. are the guys making our dreams come true, sooo.... - Don't feel any pressure, my friends  :-)

 

Of course it won't be implemented in the first iteration of BoS. The schedule is tight and Jason and the team have shown a commendable focus on sticking to their development plan and not wandering off on a tangent as some other developers before them (*cough*, CoD, *cough*). But, maybe, just maybe, down the road, if the new Il-2 takes off and becomes successful...

[JG27_Chivas]

I think it will be a watershed as well. And Loft, Jason, Zak et al. are the guys making our dreams come true, sooo.... - Don't feel any pressure, my friends  :-)

 

Of course it won't be implemented in the first iteration of BoS. The schedule is tight and Jason and the team have shown a commendable focus on sticking to their development plan and not wandering off on a tangent as some other developers before them (*cough*, CoD, *cough*). But, maybe, just maybe, down the road, if the new Il-2 takes off and becomes successful...

It appears Loft was impressed enough with the Oculus Rift to hope to have the Oculus Rift support ready for a European Game Show.    This huge news.

 

"Back to work now. Pre-alpha stage is now successfully completed and there are a number of new targets that are awaiting our focus. First up is to present the game in Europe at GamesCom 2013 in Cologne, Germany later this month. I hope that all visitors (press mostly) will be able to fly using the Oculus Rift which is now being tuned for optimal compatibility with BOS. Believe me, this is truly and awesome sight."

Edited August 2, 2013 by Chivas

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Fantastic news about OR! going to start saving my pennies for the HD version.

[Freycinet]

Wauw, talk about getting a reply to your question... And what a reply!

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Yeah thats pretty encouraging.  id be interested in seeing their implementation.  there are so many things that need to be adjusted, such as IPD and focus.  Im wondering if they are going to build their own or count on Oculus to make one, sort of a track IR UI solution.  Either way they ahve a while to perfect it as the HD Rift is still a ways out.  Having support at this stage is awesome though.

[Jason_Williams]

Loft likes it as do I and so does our lead programmer. The tech isn't perfected yet, at least not anywhere nearly polished as TrackIR is so it will be awhile before it meets its full potential regardless of how much developers support it. In addition to the lengthy wait, our U.S. unit is defective with a known hardware issue.

 

Jason

[smink1701]

Jason, glad you guys are taking it seriously it sounds like a diamond in the rough but I think it's the future.

[Freycinet]

I really think it could help BoS become an iconic title, if it is the sim that ushers in professional OR-flight simming. Also, I see a symbiotic relationship developing, with OR driving sim sales and vice versa, just as it happened with TrackIR. I am dead sure the OR people would be thrilled to have a cutting-edge, slick and gorgeous sim to present with their hardware. A venue to explore, for sure.

 

Still a lot of hurdles to overcome, but that's we have gifted developers to deal with... I know that one of them is how to implement complex control inputs, such as the host of keyboard commands necessary for hi-fi flight-simming. Also clickable pits are a hurdle, but there are plenty of people working on virtual hands, keyboards, etc, etc, so I am sure several solutions will develop over time.

 

I don't know, does OR permit 6DOF tracking? - I.e. is there a gyro in the unit, to track translation? Or wil it have to be used in conjunction with a TrackIR unit (that would be quite a headache to set up...)

[Freycinet]

BTW, nice blog post by John Carmack on the challenges of virtual reality headsets:

 

http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2013/02/22/latency-mitigation-strategies/

[JG27_Chivas]

I really think it could help BoS become an iconic title, if it is the sim that ushers in professional OR-flight simming. Also, I see a symbiotic relationship developing, with OR driving sim sales and vice versa, just as it happened with TrackIR. I am dead sure the OR people would be thrilled to have a cutting-edge, slick and gorgeous sim to present with their hardware. A venue to explore, for sure.

 

Still a lot of hurdles to overcome, but that's we have gifted developers to deal with... I know that one of them is how to implement complex control inputs, such as the host of keyboard commands necessary for hi-fi flight-simming. Also clickable pits are a hurdle, but there are plenty of people working on virtual hands, keyboards, etc, etc, so I am sure several solutions will develop over time.

 

I don't know, does OR permit 6DOF tracking? - I.e. is there a gyro in the unit, to track translation? Or wil it have to be used in conjunction with a TrackIR unit (that would be quite a headache to set up...)

 

 

Check out their website http://www.oculusvr.com/blog/category/general , especially the Blog section

 

You would not need Track IR.  Currently I believe the OR development kit is 3DOF, but the consumer version should have more with a very low latency.  Latency is one of the main caused of nausea, and they have the brightest minds in the business working on the issue.  Even software that predicts where your head is going to further reduce latencies.  I believe the end result will be better than TrackIR.  That said I don't need the Zoom function as I prefer to have it on my Hotas rather than my Track IR, so if it ends up with less than 6 DOF, I'm not sure it will be that much of a problem.   I only need up/down, rotate left/right,  and lean.  I turn off the tilt and zoom functions of 6DOF in the TrackIR.  

Edited August 3, 2013 by Chivas

[Freycinet]

Oh, but I don't want to zoom with the thing. Just pitch, roll, yaw and then sideways, forward-backward and up-&-down translation to move my head around in the cockpit. The translation movements are handy for seeing some cockpit instruments better, lining up with the gunsight, etc...

[SR-F_Winger]

Loft likes it as do I and so does our lead programmer. The tech isn't perfected yet, at least not anywhere nearly polished as TrackIR is so it will be awhile before it meets its full potential regardless of how much developers support it. In addition to the lengthy wait, our U.S. unit is defective with a known hardware issue.

 

Jason

Agreed. For competetive multiplayer the resolution is yet too low. I really hope there will soon be a full hd hack. Some people on the dev forums are already evaluating possibilities.

Also i hope that there will soon be an oportunity to preorder the consumerversion of the rift.

 

Winger

[SYN_Bandy]

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Now thats funny!

[Jason_Williams]

Hooves and I had some fun testing Oculus with BOS Pre-Alpha and ROF. This is not the official implementation, just 3rd party solution. I don't have the new build yet. Best method we found was to use TrackIR for the tracking since my unit has a roll issue and needs to be RMA'd. 
 
 
 
 
 
Jason

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Hooves and I had some fun testing Oculus with BOS Pre-Alpha and ROF. This is not the official implementation, just 3rd party solution. I don't have the new build yet. Best method we found was to use TrackIR for the tracking since my unit has a roll issue and needs to be RMA'd. 

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

Yer...not jelous...really...i hate you.

[SR-F_Winger]

Awesome! It works:) in engine support will enhance the experience quite a bit. At least some folk that tested IRacing first with the vireio driver and later the official implementation said that the official implementaiton is vastly superior in almost any aspect.

I would really love to try out ROF with my Rift. Can anyone maybe send me directions on how to make it work?

 

I wonder if it will be possible to use TIR for positional tracking only and the rifts tracking for the rotation tracking?

 

Winger

Edited August 5, 2013 by Winger

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Awesome! It works:) in engine support will enhance the experience quite a bit. At least some folk that tested IRacing first with the vireio driver and later the official implementation said that the official implementaiton is vastly superior in almost any aspect.

I would really love to try out ROF with my Rift. Can anyone maybe send me directions on how to make it work?

 

I wonder if it will be possible to use TIR for positional tracking only and the rifts tracking for the rotation tracking?

 

Winger

Hey bud, ill pm you when i get off work. Its best to get on team speak so I can talk you through it. But its not that hard. Just a couple of steps you have to do In order.

[SR-F_Winger]

Thanks a lot Hooves!

[FZG_Merlin]

I really think the OR plus track it for 6dof is the best solution !

 

Wow. It must be great

[71st_AH_Hooves]

It was actually a lot better than I thought it would be. While looking all the way back to your tail. Over your shoulder is VERY cool. It gets extremely strenuous. After about an hour. And if you think about it that makes sense. When I. A combat flught sim you are nearly in a constant dog fight. I'd imagine a RL routine patrol, while lasting a few hours and if you got in a fight they did not last but 15 20 mins at most. Using TiR. Gave us all the benifits of limited head motion and the full visibility of a monitor on your face. The 3D In tri-def is not that deep. So I'm sure native support will blow it out of the water.

 

I will say that of all the solutions we tried, I liked this one the most. Its going to be good times ahead with bos and OR and Track IR!

[SR-F_Winger]

It was actually a lot better than I thought it would be. While looking all the way back to your tail. Over your shoulder is VERY cool. It gets extremely strenuous. After about an hour. And if you think about it that makes sense. When I. A combat flught sim you are nearly in a constant dog fight. I'd imagine a RL routine patrol, while lasting a few hours and if you got in a fight they did not last but 15 20 mins at most. Using TiR. Gave us all the benifits of limited head motion and the full visibility of a monitor on your face. The 3D In tri-def is not that deep. So I'm sure native support will blow it out of the water.

 

I will say that of all the solutions we tried, I liked this one the most. Its going to be good times ahead with bos and OR and Track IR!

 

Once we wether get a Full HD Hack by some of the hardwarenerds around the official Oculus dev forums OR even better the consumerversion of the rift EACH and EVERY single simmer will be sold on this device the moment he puts it on the first time. The light bulb moment ist just so frikin extreme. Up until today i have only experienced 2 diffrent kinds of reactions when i demoed my rift to friends and family. 1. after 30 seconds "Ack i cant stand it get it off - its too intense" and 2. "AAAAaaaaAAAHHHAaaaa HOW COOL IS THAT! AWESOME! Where do i have to throw my money to:P"

And this is only with the low resolution Devkit.

Forget 3D you experienced until this day. Oculus VR 3D is THE real thing:)

 

You see i am pretty excited about the rift:)

 

Winger

Edited August 5, 2013 by Winger

[JG27_Chivas]

I can see needing TrackIR with the prototype OR, especially with Jason's units defect, but I'm not so sure it will be needed with the OR consumer versions headtracking.  

[SR-F_Winger]

I can see needing TrackIR with the prototype OR, especially with Jason's units defect, but I'm not so sure it will be needed with the OR consumer versions headtracking.

 

The devs already stated that positional tracking (the in the developerversion missing 3dof) is one of the features they want in the consumerversion. I am sure they will manage to implement that. Souldnt be oo hard to achieve.

 

Winger

[Uufflakke]

I think this is a must read for the developers:

A review on 3D gaming goggles like the Oculus Rift, Cinemizer OLED and the SMD ST1080.

All tested on RoF.

 

http://the-games-veda.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/oculus-rift-dev-kit-review-part-2-why.html

 

For the real 3D experience they are more positive about the Cinemizer and the SMD than the OR.

Quotes on the OR test:

 

"The visible pixel size is what helps turn distant planes into dancing Tetris blocks .. "

 

"A 3D display, using side by images requires us in a hmd at least to focus on the left right images being produced. If you then throw in the chequerboard visible pixel and screen door issues you lose the 3D effect. As your eyes move across the FOV you will focus on the pixels , or the screen door, this is enough to shatter the 3D illusion."

 

Ooops...   

[71st_AH_Hooves]

I think this is a must read for the developers:

A review on 3D gaming goggles like the Oculus Rift, Cinemizer OLED and the SMD ST1080.

All tested on RoF.

 

http://the-games-veda.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/oculus-rift-dev-kit-review-part-2-why.html

 

For the real 3D experience they are more positive about the Cinemizer and the SMD than the OR.

Quotes on the OR test:

 

"The visible pixel size is what helps turn distant planes into dancing Tetris blocks .. "

 

"A 3D display, using side by images requires us in a hmd at least to focus on the left right images being produced. If you then throw in the chequerboard visible pixel and screen door issues you lose the 3D effect. As your eyes move across the FOV you will focus on the pixels , or the screen door, this is enough to shatter the 3D illusion."

 

Ooops...   

Hence why you should not buy the Dev Kit.  oh and by the way this guy has pretty much been proved to have ZERO idea what he is talking about when it comes to the rift.  He went on the Meant to be seen forums spouting nonsense and got torn apart.  

 

THe Consumer version is set to have not only have Higher res displays but Higher pixel density displays as well, rendering all of Veda's ranting pointless.   The Cinemizer just falls off the earth when comparing to the rifts FOV.  And not to mention its 800 dollars.

 

Dont worry though, getting the HD rift will be more up your ally.

 

 

OH yeah he also tested RoF without screen warping.  That pretty much destroys any review he could have objectively attempted.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Hooves

[DD_bongodriver]

OH yeah he also tested RoF without screen warping.  That pretty much destroys any review he could have objectively attempted

 

 

This exactly, the oculus requires pre warping of the image to offset distortion from the lenses, simple side by side images just don't work, I can say that you can move your eyes around in the rift quite happily and the 3d effect remains.

[SR-F_Winger]

+1 Hooves. You want a HMD what equates a 40" screen "floating" few meters in front of your head with a FOV of around 30° then the cinemizer IS a good choice.

If you want REAL Immersion  with 110° FOV and the feeling to actually BE there. Then Wait for the consumerversion of the rift. IF you have 300€ to play around with and if you are totally impatient then (AND ONLY THEN) go ahead and buy the DEV Kit of the rift. Like stated numerous times. The rift is no finished product yet. Its ONLY a Developerkit. And for that purpose it does an awesome job.

 

Winger

[Uufflakke]

 oh and by the way this guy has pretty much been proved to have ZERO idea what he is talking about when it comes to the rift.  He went on the Meant to be seen forums spouting nonsense and got torn apart.  

 

OH yeah he also tested RoF without screen warping.  That pretty much destroys any review he could have objectively attempted.

 

Lol!

I didn't know he was talking BS.

 

Anyway, another question related to the Oculus Rift crossed my mind: How about the heat?

I mean after a couple of hours gameplay or whatever my computer screen generates some heat. But at least it has open space around to get rid of it and I sit about 40 cm away from it.

How will that be with the OR? It is a closed environment and the screen is at 10 cm distance.

I  presume my eyeballs won't melt but does it generate some noticable heat?

[DD_bongodriver]

No the screen doesn't generate noticeable heat from my own experience, but there is the drawback of your own body heat fogging up the lenses in some cases, don't play it fresh out of the shower or after a workout.

[SR-F_Winger]

Noone knows how it will be handeled in the consumerversion. For the Devkit it isnt really an issue (at least for me) since i havent been using it for more than an hour yet. Like i said, currently its only a toy for me. I can see that becoming an issue. But maybe the consumerversion will have some sort of active ventilationsystem instead of the passive one currently in the Devkit.

Some aircirculation surely will help comfort. But believe me. In 1-2 years you will know whos a simmer from the pressuremarks in his face:P

 

Winger

[Uufflakke]

No the screen doesn't generate noticeable heat from my own experience, but there is the drawback of your own body heat fogging up the lenses in some cases, don't play it fresh out of the shower or after a workout.

 

Ah yes, the fogging up. That is another issue I haven't thought about.

 

But there is an easy remedy for that.

Do as divers do: spit on the inside of your goggles.

To prevent fogging.

[DD_bongodriver]

That reminds me, I have some special anti fogging fluid somewhere.

 

On the heat issue I can say the screen gets luke warm, but the heat only presents itself on the front of the unit (back of screen) nothing appreciable seems to make it inside the unit.

[Zmaj76]

Oculus is not polished yet. As it was said before it still doesnt meet performance needed for sims. I hope next versions of Oculus will be much better than the first version. After all, if you compare TiR v1 and latest 5 its a huge difference...I was surprised when I heard the price for Oculus...isnt expensive as I thought it would be.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Tvrdi

[71st_AH_Hooves]

Is the oculus rift integrated with microphone and earphones?

not as of yet, I dont think any of those things were in the plans anyway.   I just use my regular headset most of the time

[Matt]

Way off-topic, but the Sennheiser PC360 is extremely light and comfortable. I barely notice it, when i'm wearing it. Definately worth the money.

[JG27_Chivas]

John Cormack has joined the Oculus Rift team.  I hear the guy can innovate and write descent code.

 

http://www.oculusvr.com/blog/

[71st_AH_Hooves]

My head is big, with my headset I usually feel uncomfortable, so do you have some recommend for choosing a headset?

Ah man that's a tough call. I don't have a big head so pretty much any headset fits me. The turtle beach headsets are fairly adjustable. Maybe go to best buy and try some on?