FFB joysticks

[Panzerlang]

Jesus. 3kg is around 9nm (?). The FFBeast I have coming does max 30nm. 🫣

[BOO]

8 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

Jesus. 3kg is around 9nm (?). The FFBeast I have coming does max 30nm. 🫣

 

Horses for courses. If you are floor mounting it with long extensions I can see where the Beast would work. However if you are not and need to mount it to say a Monstertech chair with a shorter or no extension then the Rhino has a smaller form factor to allow this. 

 

I have a Rhino. The resistance forces it creates and maintains with a short stick extension are more than enough for me. I do not intend to work out in the gym 5 days week to get that ultimate flighter jock effect. If I were using a long extension however, I may feel differently. 

[Panzerlang]

22 minutes ago, BOO said:

 

Horses for courses. If you are floor mounting it with long extensions I can see where the Beast would work. However if you are not and need to mount it to say a Monstertech chair with a shorter or no extension then the Rhino has a smaller form factor to allow this. 

 

I have a Rhino. The resistance forces it creates and maintains with a short stick extension are more than enough for me. I do not intend to work out in the gym 5 days week to get that ultimate flighter jock effect. If I were using a long extension however, I may feel differently. 

I have a 20cm extension (stick is floor mounted) but even then I have no intention of running it at full power.

[BOO]

8 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

I have a 20cm extension (stick is floor mounted) but even then I have no intention of running it at full power.

 

Its a great choice for that kind of set up I think. 

[dgiatr]

46 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

I have a 20cm extension (stick is floor mounted) but even then I have no intention of running it at full power.

 

36 minutes ago, BOO said:

 

Its a great choice for that kind of set up I think. 

I attached my diy Rhino ffb base directly to a Virpil constellation stick with no other extension, I also set higher motors current for better stick stifness in higher speeds.

Not in need for more power than that.

[BOO]

6 minutes ago, dgiatr said:

 

I attached my diy Rhino ffb base directly to a Virpil constellation stick with no other extension, I also set higher motors current for better stick stifness in higher speeds.

Not in need for more power than that.

 

Yup - without an extension the Rhino can pretty much beat my puny arms. Put an long extension on though and I start to fight back a bit 🙂  If I were floor mounting Id have been more tempted to go with a beast but, as Im not, the Rhino fulfuls everything I need with great software to suport it too. 

[GVL224]

The point of the big force FFBesat is not a replacement for the gym, but an even and informative distribution of the load depending on the speed and angle of deviation.
Distributing 10 kg of force will be more informative than 2 kg...

 

[BOO]

2 minutes ago, GVL224 said:

The point of the big force FFBesat is not a replacement for the gym, but an even and informative distribution of the load depending on the speed and angle of deviation.
Distributing 10 kg of force will be more informative than 2 kg...

 

 

Well I feel well enough informed by my Rhino. And it fits on my seat. Nothing Ive seen of the Beast leaves me feeling Im missing out in my particular circumstance. 

 

 

[GVL224]

16 минут назад, BOO сказал:

 

Well I feel well enough informed by my Rhino. And it fits on my seat. Nothing Ive seen of the Beast leaves me feeling Im missing out in my particular circumstance. 

 

 

I agree, for some people even 100 grams of the handle spread all over seems to be enough
and for some people even 20 kg at maximum deflection is not enough, especially for those who have been flying for more than one hour on real airplanes...

 

[BOO]

11 minutes ago, GVL224 said:

I agree, for some people even 100 grams of the handle spread all over seems to be enough
and for some people even 20 kg at maximum deflection is not enough, especially for those who have been flying for more than one hour on real airplanes...

 

 

Yup. Hope I didnt come accross as dissmissive. I would never say this is better that that. Its down to the end user. I do see the benefits of higher forces especially for those wanting the absolute experience. 

[SRF_kaltokri]

Since the VirpilACE I ordered for the prototype still hasn't been shipped, I've started to adapt the design that Number481 did for the VirpilACE pedals to the MFG.
If it all works out, it will be a kit to connect the powerful 86 Rhino motor to the MFG for force feedback.
I'm still waiting for belts with the (hopefully) correct length and adapted aluminum profiles. But the first attempt looks promising.

 

[Aapje]

I updated the main post with information about the grips that work with the Moza AB9 and (some of) their limitations.

 

It appears that the Virpil grips now work well, with only the LEDs not working. But the axes work correctly. This is probably the best option now, if you get the AB9 base. People seem to generally be unhappy with Moza's grip.

 

But I'm waiting for the day where I can start updating the Winwing section again...

[smee_ger_ac]

Is there a way to increase the FFB of stalls in IL-2 BOX, I use the WinWing F-16EX Stick, all is fine but the stall is weak

[Aapje]

The new Moza software update that is supposed to support IL-2 GB telemetry is planned for release tomorrow!

Edited March 12 by Aapje

[Aapje]

Also, the latest news from Flitesim is that they are going to release of FFB pedals in mid-march, and then will focus on the FFB joystick base.

[Aapje]

 

 

So there will be 3 versions

1. 20+ Nm with a belt drive for $415
2. 60+ Nm with a belt drive for $700
3. 16+ Nm with direct drive for $700

- Might be coming in the summer

- Designed to be deep, but not wide, with only a 15 cm width

 

They also showed off FFB Rudder pedals with a claimed 170+ Nm for $800:

 

[Monkeey]

Impressive show of force from Winwing, looking forward to see the first review of this equipment. The price/power ratio is unbeatable and the possibility of a direct drive (even at only 16Nm) is very exciting.

Edited March 18 by Monkeey

[SRF_kaltokri]

The RhinoACE ForceFeedBack Do-It-Yourself conversion kit is ready.
It will cost 199€ plus shipping.
I have to order some parts for it and the delivery may take up to 3 or 4 weeks.
Everyone who wants this beauty should send me a PN, so I can order the right amount of material.
 

For all people which have already WinWing Orion pedals and have a Rhino Joystick: I will create a Rhino conversion kit for the Orion, too.
So you are not forced to buy new pedals to enjoy FFB.
I have buyed them just for that purpose and I simply enjoy designing and building these things.

I realize that many people prefer to buy a product from a well-known manufacturer.
However, you have to wait and see how the software turns out. And the Rhino ecosystem sets the bar pretty high.

Edited March 21 by SRF_kaltokri

[propeler]

18.03.2025 в 19:42, Monkeey сказал:

The price/power ratio is unbeatable and the possibility of a direct drive (even at only 16Nm) is very exciting.

Beatable. Any rudder pedals can be modded for this force(even more) for around 150 $.  For that price it is possible to have rudders with 30kg force. 

 

[Monkeey]

On 3/22/2025 at 5:52 PM, propeler said:

Beatable. Any rudder pedals can be modded for this force(even more) for around 150 $.  For that price it is possible to have rudders with 30kg force. 

 

I was talking about the base for the stick. The rudder is indeed less competitively priced.

[Monkeey]

Would someone with some 3D skills be willing to make a render with the different bases (and rudder!) next to one another to have an idea of the space constraints of them all? 
I feel like this is going to be a make or break point for some models depending on our configurations and simpit dimensions but I have no clue how to do it myself.

 

P.S.: @Aapje you should add the products from Simnautica to the list, they look gorgeous and have interesting features like this out of stick connection allowing a real quick disconnect I would guess.

Edited April 6 by Monkeey

[Aapje]

@Monkeey

 

I added the Simnautica Eagle to the post. Unfortunately, they give absolutely no information about why they chose to have the grip cable on the outside of the connector. In general, there is a lack of information about this product, and there are no reviews that I can find. They seem to be really bad at marketing and at actually getting people to buy it. But perhaps they only really sell this with their other glider simulator products to a very niche audience.

 

I did notice that they are using a quick release seat post clamp for bicycles: https://www.pro-bikegear.com/nl/accessories/seatpost-clamps/quick-release-seatpost-clamp

 

The 250 euro price for a bigger power supply does seem absurd. This reminds me of Fanatec who sell a 160 euro power supply, while you can get the same for 38 euro from AliExpress.

[Monkeey]

@Aapje agreed, many questions need to be answered and I'm not convinced about the power supply price but the dimensions of their base is super convenient to install it under a seat, one can tell this was built to fit their custom rig.
The quick release seat post clamp seems like a great idea to me if it means I can get the stick out of the way in a few seconds but like you said no review and a lack of information if preventing me from trying their stuff.

[propeler]

06.04.2025 в 13:53, Aapje сказал:

Unfortunately, they give absolutely no information about why they chose to have the grip cable on the outside of the connector. In general, there is a lack of information about this product, and there are no reviews that I can find

Simnautica uses software based on FFBeast. So all that is in FFBeast is there.

[Aapje]

2 hours ago, propeler said:

Simnautica uses software based on FFBeast. So all that is in FFBeast is there.

 

Yes, that is clear. But there is no information about the wattage or the maximum throw. Nor is there an installation guide. You offer all of that, and so does Moza.

 

[SRF_kaltokri]

The new conversion kit to convert WinWing Orion pedals with a Rhino motor to Force Feedback is now ready.

You can order it from me for 159.- € (plus shipping costs). The pedals and the motor are not included!

More information here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSqg5z7IwCEvO7kp_7aN6nuZ5UhiMT_u1BInB1sxV7iZH9Nfqi1VOfpibHZyeEb1vdAsGP9yn6JOIgE/pub

Questions or orders via PN to me.

This is for all people which have already WinWing Orion pedals and don't want to buy new pedals to enjoy FFB.

 

[Aapje]

Virpil is teasing their FFB base:

 

 

Not much to see, but the bad puns in the description on their Instagram post are quite clear: https://www.instagram.com/p/DK909LMx6c5/

 

I expect news from them at FSExpo.

[SRF_kaltokri]

The new conversion kit to convert Virpil R1 pedals with a Rhino 86BLF03 motor to Force Feedback is now ready.
You can order it from me for 199.- € (plus shipping costs). The pedals and the motor are not included!
More information can be found here: 

Questions or orders via PM to me.

 

[Monkeey]

On 6/18/2025 at 11:13 PM, Aapje said:

Virpil is teasing their FFB base.

 

I expect news from them at FSExpo.

Latest instagram post gives us a date: 2026. Let's all go register our interest so that they are aware that it's a must! https://virpil-controls.eu/ffb-register-now

Edited June 25 by Monkeey

[Aapje]

Moza has announced an FFB base with half the strength of the AB9. It has 4.4 Nm of single axis torque. I wonder how much this shaves off the price. It may get very competitive with the top non-FFB bases.

 

https://mozaracing.com/flight/ab6-mhg-bundle/

[Aapje]

Based on the published one axis to combined peak torque ratio of the AB6, and the peak torque of the AB9, I calculated the AB9 one axis torque at 8.8 Nm.

 

I added the new base to the first post. It's a bit irritating that they now added all kinds of data to the spec sheet of the AB6, but they don't publish the same data for the AB9.

 

Anyway, the AB6 seems a decent bit smaller. It's interesting that they added sliders and buttons to it, while those are not present on the AB9. That makes me think that the AB9 needs a refresh, since it seems rather strange that the more expensive unit is missing things that the cheaper unit will have.

Edited June 27 by Aapje

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

I'd guess when they designed the AB6 they were thinking about people with a lower budget who don't have a throttle, but with the AB9 they're assuming people spending that much have a seperate throttle. I wouldn't want to reach and use the base buttons/axis on the stick if I had a throttle, especially in VR. 

[Aapje]

If they are not in the way, then more controls are better, in my opinion. I personally use the buttons on my Gladiator base for more rarely used commands like recentering my view and ejecting.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

If they're free, I could probably find something to put there, but I'd prefer a lower price tag and not having them.

[Aapje]

These controls are probably extremely cheap to add, so they shouldn't impact the price meaningfully.

[Monkeey]

It's too quiet here... 

[Panzerlang]

19 minutes ago, Monkeey said:

It's too quiet here... 

Beware the FFB Beast going wonky, it repeatedly tried to break my wrists/fingers, itself and my femurs. Lol.

[GVL224]

8 часов назад, Panzerlang сказал:

Beware the FFB Beast going wonky, it repeatedly tried to break my wrists/fingers, itself and my femurs. Lol.

Perhaps it is necessary to add the "damper" force in the Setup.
Of course, I do not release the handle when the plane crashes...

[Panzerlang]

7 hours ago, GVL224 said:

Perhaps it is necessary to add the "damper" force in the Setup.
Of course, I do not release the handle when the plane crashes...

There is/are a combination/combinations of malarkey that appear able to make the hardware/software combination lose its nut, possibly triggered by IL2's output having a bug in it (as pointed out to me by prop).

In my case the most dangerous setting is the "Invert Force Output" checkbox. This causes forces to be either 'To Center' or 'To Peripheral'. Guess what happens when the checkbox is NOT checked? Yes, the stick tries to launch itself at max velocity out of its base. Apart from potential physical injury it also twice nearly gave me a heart attack.

The other dangerous setting is "Force Calibration". If that's not on a minimum of 10 on the slider the stick appears to not calibrate correctly which, I surmise, is what allows it all to lose its nut.

If the documentation was correctly done it would show screen shots of the setup panels showing safe initial setups AND safe in-game use setups. Maybe also with red-text warnings saying to be cautious/aware of the "Invert Force Output" and "Force Calibration" settings. As it is right now, setting up this stick from scratch is dangerous, due to a lack of clear and easily understood instructions.

[Monkeey]

7 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

If the documentation was correctly done it would show screen shots of the setup panels showing safe initial setups AND safe in-game use setups. Maybe also with red-text warnings saying to be cautious/aware of the "Invert Force Output" and "Force Calibration" settings. As it is right now, setting up this stick from scratch is dangerous, due to a lack of clear and easily understood instructions.

Did you report this to Propeler3D, he might know his software too well to think about it and your input might help him see the issue?

Edited August 14 by Monkeey