Dynamic campaign

[Jack_Daniels1983]

Will Korea have a dynamic campaign and if, would the player be able to change the outcome of the war?

[LuftManu]

53 minutes ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

Will Korea have a dynamic campaign and if, would the player be able to change the outcome of the war?

Hi!

I am not sure, but I bet they want to represent the historical conflict, like they did in WW2. That would be my preferred choice too, to fly the types missions both sides flew in each moment of the conflict.

 

Also, seeing how they want to develop the management of the unit, I guess there might also be more interactive playground for our choices withouth changing the outcome of the war per se.

 

It's hard to change the outcome of the war as a single pilot or squadron, unless you are Mobius 1 😄

[Aapje]

3 hours ago, Jack_Daniels1983 said:

Will Korea have a dynamic campaign and if, would the player be able to change the outcome of the war?

Almost certainly not. I expect a similar campaign as right now, but with some more unit management.

[Avimimus]

It depends on how one defines a dynamic campaign... originally the use refers to generated missions, which change somewhat over time. But some people use it for a strategic campaign (where you play a strategy game, with the addition that you can take control of one of the vehicles). Then there are a variety of campaigns in-between those two... ones where you can influence a mission profile before it begins, or influence outcomes slightly by achieving a particular objective, or where the mission generator takes into account more complex calculations.

 

So, the answer will almost certainly be both 'yes' and 'no' simultaneously - depending on your exact definition.

[LukeFF]

More information about this will come later.

[Patricks]

6 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

More information about this will come later.

 

My goodness, if you tell me it will be introducing a true dynamic campaign (as in BMS Falcon) I would pay a LOT of money for that! 

[Gambit21]

On 6/27/2024 at 9:31 AM, Patricks said:

 

My goodness, if you tell me it will be introducing a true dynamic campaign (as in BMS Falcon) I would pay a LOT of money for that! 

Whoa - be careful Icarus.

 

[Patricks]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

Whoa - be careful Icarus.

 

 

Not worrying much, even DCS with their money, programming pool, and years of talking have not produced one..

 

[slipper]

If it turned into a modern version of Rowansofts Mig Alley, I would be more that happy.

 

Might Alley and Battle of Britain really nailed the campaign aspect, I haven't seen it reproduced as good in the last 30 or so years!!

[Patricks]

2 hours ago, slipper said:

If it turned into a modern version of Rowansofts Mig Alley, I would be more that happy.

 

Might Alley and Battle of Britain really nailed the campaign aspect, I haven't seen it reproduced as good in the last 30 or so years!!

 

You need to look at Falcon BMS 4.37.4 if into jets, their dynamic campaign blows away anything ever made... and it (Falcon 4.0 with a true dynamic campaign) was done in 1998. 4.38 will introduce DX12 graphics..

Edited July 1, 2024 by Patricks

[Avimimus]

4.37 wasn't released in 1998! I was honestly unimpressed by the campaign - but that was probably because I was trying to exclusively fly the OV-10 Bronco and it wasn't designed for that 😄

[Patricks]

47 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

4.37 wasn't released in 1998! I was honestly unimpressed by the campaign - but that was probably because I was trying to exclusively fly the OV-10 Bronco and it wasn't designed for that 😄

 

Thanks for the correction, i'll clarify. Falcon 4.0 was released in 1998 with the 1st truly dynamic campaign. It has been constantly updated and BMS got involved ~2003 with the source code. First big update was BMS 4.32 and it has constantly evolved since. And no, it is a War simulation for the F16 Falcon (and now the F15 Eagle and F18 Hornet), I had no idea the Bronco was ever even flyable, let alone why anyone would even try or what effect it would have on the Campaigns.. I can see how you would not be "impressed"... 

Edited July 1, 2024 by Patricks

[Avimimus]

14 minutes ago, Patricks said:

Thanks for the correction. Falcon 4.0 was released in 1998 with the 1st truly dynamic campaign.

 

I'm not entirely sure about that! 😄 At the very least I think Enemy Engaged Apache vs. Havok may have beat it by a few weeks  There were probably some earlier sims with strategic layers that could also qualify.

 

That said, the fact that it keeps coming up shows that some people really like its implementation.

[Patricks]

5 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

I'm not entirely sure about that! 😄 At the very least I think Enemy Engaged Apache vs. Havok may have beat it by a few weeks  There were probably some earlier sims with strategic layers that could also qualify.

 

That said, the fact that it keeps coming up shows that some people really like its implementation.

 

No comparison as far a a dynamic war simulation, not even close. I had EE, MSFS3 (was touted as dynamic), and BoB.. they were all good, but don't hold a candle to F4, and to see it is still as popular as it is, and being updated to this generation's graphics (ground graphics were always a nit), is amazing. I've been trying to get them (BMS) to slip in a Mig 15 and Sabre for years...

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by Patricks

[Avimimus]

17 minutes ago, Patricks said:

No comparison as far a a dynamic war simulation, not even close. I had EE, MSFS3 (was touted as dynamic), and BoB.. they were all good, but don't hold a candle to F4, and to see it is still as popular as it is, and being updated to this generation's graphics (ground graphics were always a nit), is amazing. I've been trying to get them (BMS) to slip in a Mig 15 and Sabre for years...

 

This does reinforce my original point about the breadth and depth of the word dynamic, and how it can mean so many different things  

 

What I'd like to try is the old leaked expansion to the DOS version of EF-2000 Tactcom... apparently you can even direct ship movements etc. With new wrappers and dosbox updates I could probably even get it to be stable (if I can find a copy).

[Patricks]

27 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

This does reinforce my original point about the breadth and depth of the word dynamic, and how it can mean so many different things  

 

 

I agree, to me at least, it means the war progresses regardless of your involvement. Destroyed objects stay destroyed until an engineering battalion (ala BMS) fixes them (or a suitable amount of time passes), the destruction has an effect (like a supply depot going down, airbase being wiped out, power plant going down), missions are generated or you can create them, etc. it's a living entity. 

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by Patricks

[Aapje]

An issue with a fully dynamic campaign in IL-2 is that this sim seeks to be historically accurate, which you won't get with a fully dynamic campaign, where you can affect the results of the overall war.

 

But I think that a good compromise would be for the game to simulate a whole lot of individual land, air and sea units, including the missions they do. But all that happens away from the player would then be simulated in very low fidelity until they get close to a player. So you'd have the enemy (and friendlies) do CAP, but the game would only fully simulate the plane when the player gets close to it. Otherwise it would just be: Enemy plane X8604 flies these waypoints, at this speed and this altitude.

 

Basically, PWCG on steroids.

 

The thing I want most in this game (aside from a better AI) is to have a game world that is filled with a lot more activity.

Edited August 4, 2024 by Aapje

[Halon]

On 7/1/2024 at 1:21 PM, Aapje said:

The thing I most most in this game (aside from a better AI) is to have a game world that is filled with a lot more activity.

 

I would 100% concur with this, plenty of activity and variety where possible (and realistic). Something I always wanted from Great Battles was for the activity I encountered in mission to match the historical norms in terms of numbers of sorties taking place.