TrackIR annoying deadzone in the centre

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

Hi people,

 

I fly with TrackIR and I use completely flat curves with all axis on, trueview, 15 smoothing but I have an sticky centre. More than sitcky, what it happens is that when my view crosses the centre, I get like sucked in to it which it is quite annoying in a dogfight and it doesn't feel smooth to look around with this.

 

I have checked YouTube videos from other people and it doesn't happen to them. Also DCS is completely fine and TIR software shows completely smooth movements.

 

Do you know what may be happening?

 

I have been fighting this issue for years, I even tried more obscure causes of the issues like this one without success.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

EDIT: I have recorded a short video to show my issue: https://streamable.com/u1yv76

 

With further testing, I think the snapping issue is in the X axis when I check my 6 over the shoulder and come back to center. Also it seems related to Trueview as if I disable this feature, the issue disappears.

Edited May 21, 2024 by III/JG52_Al-Azraq

[jollyjack]

I had some emai advice from James Allen about my trackhat sensor v2, and you need to tune filtering maybe.

 

Please try increasing rotating filter smoothing, you can do this in the 'filter' tab in TrackHat opentrack options,

please try increasing the first slider on the page to at least 1.5.

You should also set the deadzone, the second slider, to at least 0.03

 

I had a TrackIR5 before, most issues were related to backlight disturbing my camera, and then getting the curves right.

I do still feel sensor v2 works better however.

[BladeMeister]

Sunlight is a big problem for TIR5 that I have ever had. I literally put black felt over my blinds inside and have never looked back. Of course you may an actual hardware problem, but I have used TIR since the first iteration and have never had a problem except the sunlight issue.

 

S!Blade<><

[Hook_Echo]

Post pictures of your trackir curves.

[BladeMeister]

Try Requiem's profile. It is well made and there is only a very slight dead spot in the center, which you need.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/88gpqowjde5u831/RequiemFeb21.zip?dl=0

 

S!Blade<><

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

14 hours ago, jollyjack said:

I had some emai advice from James Allen about my trackhat sensor v2, and you need to tune filtering maybe.

 

Please try increasing rotating filter smoothing, you can do this in the 'filter' tab in TrackHat opentrack options,

please try increasing the first slider on the page to at least 1.5.

You should also set the deadzone, the second slider, to at least 0.03

 

I had a TrackIR5 before, most issues were related to backlight disturbing my camera, and then getting the curves right.

I do still feel sensor v2 works better however.

 

9 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Sunlight is a big problem for TIR5 that I have ever had. I literally put black felt over my blinds inside and have never looked back. Of course you may an actual hardware problem, but I have used TIR since the first iteration and have never had a problem except the sunlight issue.

 

S!Blade<><

 

Thanks for your replies! But it is not that. I am very experienced with TrackIR and when there's a problem with sunlight the tracking go nuts which is not the case. The problem here is that it attracts me to the center like a magnet when I check my 6 and lean a bit (thus using X axis).

 

I did more testing and I think it has something to do with Trueview because if I disable it, the problem goes away. I have also found out, that if I don't move the X axis at all I don't have the issue either.

 

I have recorded this short video to show what's the issue: https://streamable.com/u1yv76

 

4 hours ago, Hook_Echo said:

Post pictures of your trackir curves.

 

Sure, here you have (I have added an slight decrease in sensitivity in the center, but the issue is there with flat curves as well):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Try Requiem's profile. It is well made and there is only a very slight dead spot in the center, which you need.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/88gpqowjde5u831/RequiemFeb21.zip?dl=0

 

S!Blade<><

 

Thanks! I prefer to have my own as each one has a different distance to monitor but I will try it for troubleshooting purposes.

[BladeMeister]

The one from Requiem is going to feel twitchy and you won't like it at first, but I assure you once you get used to it, it is the best profile available. Funny thing is in all the years I have used TIR, my evolved profile was almost identical to his when I compared them. His is just that little bit better though so I use it as a base and fiddle with it from there for different sims. Good luck.

 

S!Blade<><

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Just set less aggressive deadzone in the center. Without any deadzone in the center, dogfighting would be harder.

[Hook_Echo]

The only thing that looks weird to me is how narrow your Y and Z curves are. Is it possible that you are moving beyond that range and then when you get close to center it snaps back in? Maybe try extending those out farther, or disabling those two motions and see what happens.

 

I agree with you on making your own profiles. I tried the Requiem profile and it did not work well for me at all, so I made my own.

[BladeMeister]

To each their own, but I am telling you, once you get the muscle memory for Req's profile, takes 2-3 weeks, you won't ever go back. If you just try a few times you will hate it. There is a reason that his profile has been frequently downloaded for slightly over a decade now. It's like anything worthwhile, you have to work at it for a while before you experience how really good it is.  My 2¢. I'll shut up now.......

Maybe!

 

S!Blade<><

Edited May 22, 2024 by BladeMeister

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

5 hours ago, Hook_Echo said:

The only thing that looks weird to me is how narrow your Y and Z curves are. Is it possible that you are moving beyond that range and then when you get close to center it snaps back in? Maybe try extending those out farther, or disabling those two motions and see what happens.

 

I agree with you on making your own profiles. I tried the Requiem profile and it did not work well for me at all, so I made my own.

 

Thanks! That could be the issue, I will try later today and post the results.

 

4 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

To each their own, but I am telling you, once you get the muscle memory for Req's profile, takes 2-3 weeks, you won't ever go back. If you just try a few times you will hate it. There is a reason that his profile has been frequently downloaded for slightly over a decade now. It's like anything worthwhile, you have to work at it for a while before you experience how really good it is.  My 2¢. I'll shut up now.......

Maybe!

 

S!Blade<><

 

Back in 2018 when I got TrackIR I installed Requiem's profile and for some reason when using yaw I couldn't get past 90º. I finally decided to invest time and make my own curve as the distances to the monitor are different in each setup. Monitor size matters also.

 

Nevertheless, I will check Requiem's profile to get some inspiration for mine.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

I use Req profile, but I did modified it to suit my personal preference. For example among other changes I did remove the involuntary back move in cockpit  when you look behind, because when dogfighting you want be in  front of the cockpit to see more behind when on defense.

[69th_Panp]

wow I haven't seen such a flat profile ever!

Not sure how you could keep your eyes on your screen as you turn your head with that profile.

 

your hickup could be due to losing tracking due to excessive head movement due to your flat curves

 

The object of the profile is to enable your eyes to stay on your screen with as little head movement 

as possible and still get the rotation in game that you need to see your 6

I can get a full 6 view by rotating my head to the edge of my monitor with a dead zone at center.

Try raising your curves to create a arch in the dots and bring them in or out from center to control rotation movements and speed.

 

Edited May 22, 2024 by 69th_Panp

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

13 hours ago, 69th_Panp said:

wow I haven't seen such a flat profile ever!

Not sure how you could keep your eyes on your screen as you turn your head with that profile.

 

your hickup could be due to losing tracking due to excessive head movement due to your flat curves

 

The object of the profile is to enable your eyes to stay on your screen with as little head movement 

as possible and still get the rotation in game that you need to see your 6

I can get a full 6 view by rotating my head to the edge of my monitor with a dead zone at center.

Try raising your curves to create a arch in the dots and bring them in or out from center to control rotation movements and speed.

 

 

I actually made them flat trying to remove the deadzone but I'm starting to think that such a sharp deadzone (feels like a magnet) and only in the X axis must be something like you mention.

 

Yesterday I didn't have the chance to try some of the proposed solutions in this thread but today for sure I will test and comment.

 

However, with these curves, I never lose sight of my monitor even when checking 6.

Edited May 23, 2024 by III/JG52_Al-Azraq

[Ace_Pilto]

I see you've bound your re-canter to a joystick button, check your hardware to make sure your button is not faulty and constantly re-centering.

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

5 hours ago, Ace_Pilto said:

I see you've bound your re-canter to a joystick button, check your hardware to make sure your button is not faulty and constantly re-centering.

 

Thanks for the idea, but the button is fine for sure and it is not recentering just that when I come back to the centre I'm pulled into it.

[Ace_Pilto]

In that case you might consider an inverted curve for the center. If it still "snaps" or "pulls" with a flat curve that would be the only counter to it.

[69th_Panp]

I just noticed on your screen shots that you actually dont have a dead zone in your profile.

All your curves start at a setting above 0 which means that you will have movement on that axis, if it was set to zero it would provide no movement at the center.

I dont think that the issue you have is dead zone related on your X axis.

 

Here, try this curve set up for X, it has a dead zone at zero but will cover full range on the X with a little lean movement. 

[III/JG52_Al-Azraq]

And update: so I added a deadzone in all my axis and made the curve more pronounced, thus increasing the sensitivity overall. I also removed the weird short lines I had for axis Y and Z and I have to say, the issue is almost completely gone! It is not annoying anymore and everything is much more responsible and smooth. I still have some pull and magnet effect in the center but it is much much better and not annoying anymore. I can even say it is good as it acts kinda like re-centering.

 

Thanks everyone for your ideas!

 

15 hours ago, Ace_Pilto said:

In that case you might consider an inverted curve for the center. If it still "snaps" or "pulls" with a flat curve that would be the only counter to it.

 

This is an interesting take, I will test it.

 

12 hours ago, 69th_Panp said:

I just noticed on your screen shots that you actually dont have a dead zone in your profile.

All your curves start at a setting above 0 which means that you will have movement on that axis, if it was set to zero it would provide no movement at the center.

I dont think that the issue you have is dead zone related on your X axis.

 

Here, try this curve set up for X, it has a dead zone at zero but will cover full range on the X with a little lean movement. 

 

Actually I don't want deadzone almost at all, but I will give a try to your idea. Every proposal is welcome and testing new profiles with TrackIR is extremely easy.

 

Thanks!

[69th_Panp]

15 hours ago, III/JG52_Al-Azraq said:

Actually I don't want deadzone almost at all, but I will give a try to your idea. Every proposal is welcome and testing new profiles with TrackIR is extremely easy.

Some want a dead zone and some don't which is ok 👍 

I found that my gunnery was a lot better when I redid my profile to add a dead zone, it allows your head to be right in line with the gun site and makes shooting more precise.

I routinely average around 23 to 28 percent hits on target.

 

Glad you were able to get it worked out 👍