P stands for Paddy I suppose ..

[jollyjack]

Stupid question of course. p51,p38, p40,p47 .... what's it with this p bizziness and where does it stands for? 

[Billsponge1972]

I believe it's stood for "pursuit" aircraft, at least back in the day.

[Art-J]

^ Indeed. From mid '20s all the way till '47. Replaced with F- for "fighter" we're all familiar with nowadays.

[dannytherat]

My understanding is that the "P for Pursuit" designation for fighters had its roots in the American policy of isolationism in The '20s and '30s.

 

The broad idea is that calling fighters "Pursuit" aircraft implied that their usage would be to "pursue" hostile aircraft entering US airspace (ie interception), rather than "fighting" overseas - at least that was the impression the designation was intended to give to Congress or the public (regardless of whether the aircraft was actually intended as an interceptor, an escort fighter or whatever).

[Gavrick]

Not really in the subject, but also about the designations)

After the war, separate air defense forces were created in the USSR. These were separate forces, like an army or a navy. And the fighters that were in service in air defense aviation were oficcialy called "interceptors" or "fighter-interceptors". Which, in my opinion, is quite consonant with the "pursuer".

And, well, if you literally translate the Russian term for a "fighter" into English, you get something like "exterminator" or "destroyer". Or for air defense - "exterminator - interceptor")

[IckyATLAS]

22 minutes ago, Gavrick said:

exterminator - interceptor

Interesting how translations can come up with different meanings. Fighter and Exterminator at least in English have a very big difference.

"Fighter" means you have to fight and if you are good enough you may win, but it is not a given.

However "Exterminator" means there is no fight really, it is plain direct destruction with no fight as it means there is no opposition.

Very very different meanings indeed.

 

[Gavrick]

31 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

it is plain direct destruction with no fight

I can be wrong, but as for me - it is very close to naval therm "destroyer", as ship class.

[Jaegermeister]

To go one step further down the "P" rabbit hole, the first American built fighter plane was the Aeromarine PG-1 with the abbreviations standing for Pursuit/ Ground Attack. It was proposed in 1921 and 3 were built before they decided it sucked and abandoned the first "pursuit" plane in 1922.

 

 

I think the first P plane to make it into service was the Curtiss P-6 Hawk which served in the '30s in whatever Pursuit Squadrons there were at the time.

 

 

Not to be confused with the P-36 Hawk which was a much improved aeroplane that I would love to see simulated over North Africa...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2024 by Jaegermeister

[DD_Fenrir]

The Pursuit appellation is a direct result of the US collaboration with the French Air service of WW1 - see Lafayette squadron.

 

French fighter squadrons were called Escadron de Chasse…

[Zooropa_Fly]

So in just about 40 years, the Yanks went from this..

 

 

 

To this ..

 

Spoiler

 

Remarkable really.

Just a shame it's always driven by killing and nicking stuff.

[EAF19_Marsh]

You're all wrong: it is a shorthand for Para bellum.

 

12 hours ago, Gavrick said:

can be wrong, but as for me - it is very close to naval therm "destroyer", as ship class.

 

I cannot now remember the term, but is it not something like 'Istrabel'? Hence I-15 etc

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

The Pursuit appellation is a direct result of the US collaboration with the French Air service of WW1 - see Lafayette squadron.

 

French fighter squadrons were called Escadron de Chasse…

Although the French word chasse looks very much like the English "chase" (and is in fact related), AFAIK it is the equivalent of "hunt" in the sense of hunting animals, rather than running after something which "pursuit" would imply. In that sense, the French (avion de chasse, chasseur) have gone the same route as the Germans (Jagdflugzeug, Jäger) (and Dutch, Poles, Italians, Danes, Romanians, Spanish, Hungarians, ...) in equating the job of a fighter pilot with that of a hunter. Then there's the British who didn't bother inventing a new name for the concept and just continued to use the term "scout" which initially referred to fast reconnaissance planes before these were fitted with machine guns, becoming essentially a different class of aircraft. In the 20s they recognised that the term scout wasn't really applicable anymore and started to call them "fighters" (as do the Japanese, Chinese, and later on the Americans). Then finally there's the Russians, Ukrainians, Fins, Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians whose words are all related to "destroying" the enemy.

 

It's funny to see how so many terms exist, and how there also seems to be a clear geographical distinction. The central/western European world refers to the process (the hunt), the anglophone and east Asian worlds refer to the action itself (the fight) and the eastern European world refers to the intended result (destruction).

 

58 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

I cannot now remember the term, but is it not something like 'Istrabel'? Hence I-15 etc

Istrebitel' (истребитель), plural istrebiteli.

[Jaegermeister]

7 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

The Pursuit appellation is a direct result of the US collaboration with the French Air service of WW1 - see Lafayette squadron.

 

French fighter squadrons were called Escadron de Chasse…

 

Yes, the American squadrons serving in the French Air Force were combined  into the 1st Pursuit Squadron when America entered WWI.

 

I believe the Americans changed their term from Pursuit to Fighter during the Korean War because the brand new US Air Force as an independent branch of the service didn't want to sound passive, as though they were chasing something they could not catch.

[EAF19_Marsh]

6 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Istrebitel' (истребитель), plural istrebiteli.

Interesting post, much obliged to you. I had never really thought about the background of the different terms.

[IckyATLAS]

On 5/15/2024 at 11:29 PM, Gavrick said:

I can be wrong, but as for me - it is very close to naval therm "destroyer", as ship class.

Most probably that is how to be interpreted.