Friendly Flak in Flying Circus!

[Majpalmer]

This has happened to me several times in Flying Circus career missions. The most recent: a flight of 6 Halb D2s flying defensively over a point on our side of the lines behind the trenches. We see Flak bursts. Three Nieuports are attacking something. Our flight leader leads us into an intercept and we engage. The Flak doesn't stop. One Nieuport I'm chasing blows up from a flak hit in front of me. I shoot down one Nieuport and look around. I can find only one of my comrades. 

 

On return, I learn that I got credit for one Nieuport. No one else in the flight had a kill. Four of my comrades died, along with the third Nieuport,--apparently from German Flak! 

 

I know that in WWII German flak would stop when their fighters engaged. I know Flying Circus isn't WWII. But shouldn't the Flak stop? There were only 11 pilots in my Jasta, and 4 (36$) just died from friendly fire. 

[Dr1falcon500]

All too common flying German missions. Friendly flak bursting so close I can hear the shrapnel flying past. Seems to be worse in Intercept Ground Attackers missions. Dived on a N28 which was being fired on by our flak. Of course they kept on firing. Hard to know how many of our planes have been lost to friendly fire. Nearly all my missions are flying German planes, so I'm not sure if the situation's similar with friendly fire on the other side. Interesting to see what response this thread gets from the big boys, if any.

Edited April 7, 2024 by Dr1falcon500

[Majpalmer]

Just flew another mission, but this time as flight leader. As we approached the red crosshairs marker, I could see the Flak bursts. I thought no way was I going to fly my comrades into that crap. So, I loitered nearby and a minute later saw the message "mission accomplished." We returned to base. 

 

On the recap I saw that 5 DH4a and 2 FEEs had been shot down by German Flak! I'm guessing a third Fee and a sixth DH4 escaped. Who needs an air force! My AI comrades aren't anywhere near that deadly. 

 

BTW, I have the settings on Scattered. 

 

 

[Dr1falcon500]

I thought this problem was supposed to be fixed? This was a PWCG mission a few days ago with ground units set at low. There were so much MG and flak near Douai that it appeared as a large blue blob on the map. 3 or 4 Camels were flying over there. Attacking the Camels, the flak didn't stop. The bursts were rocking and jolting my Dr1 with shrapnel whining past. Our Albatros was knocked out by our flak. I suppose next time I'll leave the flak to it and fly some where else. 1st shot, flak bursting close to my Dr1.  2nd Albatros pilot killed and centre section smashed by flak.

Edited September 4, 2024 by Dr1falcon500

[LukeFF]

As always, I need a track or mission file to give to our QA guys. 

[Dr1falcon500]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

As always, I need a track or mission file to give to our QA guys. 

Really? What are testers for if not to test?

[LukeFF]

59 minutes ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

Really? What are testers for if not to test?

 

This is how it's worked since day 1 of GB and now FC - if players see a problem it's simple enough to post files showing what the issue is. Beta testers can check it of course as well but being volunteers aren't required to.

[Zooropa_Fly]

If there's 'friendly' flak around, being on your bandits 6 is the worst place to be.

Like anyone and everything else they tend to 'lag shoot' - so you're more likely to be hit than the enemy.

 

I've heard it said it was often thus in the real war, so there is an element of realism to it.

[Dr1falcon500]

On 9/5/2024 at 1:47 PM, LukeFF said:

 

This is how it's worked since day 1 of GB and now FC - if players see a problem it's simple enough to post files showing what the issue is. Beta testers can check it of course as well but being volunteers aren't required to.

So is ICGS a registered charity? They seem to rely a lot on unpaid labour from testers and customers! Next they'll be asking for donations to keep the planes in the air.

[LukeFF]

17 hours ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

So is ICGS a registered charity? They seem to rely a lot on unpaid labour from testers and customers! Next they'll be asking for donations to keep the planes in the air.

 

This is how it works with pretty much any software developer out there, so no, it has nothing with us being some sort of unique case. 

 

If you still have the mission file, just post it here so we can look at it. Our mission designers do look at them - as I've said repeatedly - and fixes do come out from these reports. 

[Dr1falcon500]

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

This is how it works with pretty much any software developer out there, so no, it has nothing with us being some sort of unique case. 

 

If you still have the mission file, just post it here so we can look at it. Our mission designers do look at them - as I've said repeatedly - and fixes do come out from these reports. 

I haven't got the file anymore otherwise I'd upload it. Part of the problem was that PWCG had such a large concentration of AA that you wouldn't see in career mode. Maybe not in real life, as there didn't seem much to warrant it.

[Dr1falcon500]

As this is PWCG I was able to re-fly the mission 3 times to get some tracks.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/qgb3p0dcdemedjr/F-Fire-Red2.zip/file

Map near Seclin showing concentation of AA. Mission results showing our Albatros was shot down by friendly MG fire. Also note that Camels seem to be able to climb a bit too steeply and rapidly.

On 9/5/2024 at 8:37 AM, LukeFF said:

As always, I need a track or mission file to give to our QA guys. 

3 track file uploaded, hope this helps.

[LukeFF]

Alright, thanks. 👍

[LukeFF]

Alright, so this looks like a mission design issue with PWCG, so I recommend you bring it to Pat's attention.

[LukeFF]

Furthermore...

 

One of our mission designers couldn't open the mission properly, because the number of objects is very large, and the editor crashes with the error: "Frame heap overflow!"

With such a density of fire, anyone can be shot down. 

[Dr1falcon500]

20 hours ago, LukeFF said:

Furthermore...

 

One of our mission designers couldn't open the mission properly, because the number of objects is very large, and the editor crashes with the error: "Frame heap overflow!"

With such a density of fire, anyone can be shot down. 

It's not just a problem with density of fire or missions being created by PWCG. Also happens in career mode missions particularly intercept ground attacker missions.  Our flight was over the flak area before the Camels arrive, but flak opened fire regardless. I'd say that's a FC flak AI problem, not PWCG. BTW I can't find any reference to game developers using unpaid testers, only that pay was very low.

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, Dr1falcon500 said:

It's not just a problem with density of fire or missions being created by PWCG. Also happens in career mode missions particularly intercept ground attacker missions.  Our flight was over the flak area before the Camels arrive, but flak opened fire regardless. I'd say that's a FC flak AI problem, not PWCG. BTW I can't find any reference to game developers using unpaid testers, only that pay was very low.

 

Talk to more developers: Most smaller or independent studios use volunteers exclusively (excepting testing done within the core team itself). Some very large companies wihlth budgets in the hundreds of millions briefly employ paid quality assurance testers near release, but that is a very small percent of companies. It also doesn't guarantee quality work. I'd also say that free beta testing isn't exploitative, because, frankly speaking, a small number of us enjoy testing as much or more than playing a game. It is a puzzle game in itself.

 

Anyway, discussion regarding compensation for submitting bug reports is very off-topic. If it continues I'll need to split the thread soon. These forums are for discussing the sim, not discussing business practices in the software industry (there are otherbplaces on the Internet if you want to learn more about that).