Zero communication from Flight lead

[jokash]

A simple "Atention 1 min to waypoint" and "Atention 1min to target" and "Atention,engage enemy fighters" or "Atention,evade enemy fighters"

 

God forbid you look away from flight lead when actual waypoint change or start of ground attack begins

No circling around ground targets,just jump to 45 degree dive with laser acquired targets.

How about "Atention 1 min to ground targets",then a circle of target area,then attack - there is no way that everyone in my flight saw anything on ground from the angle we initiated our attack in our I16's.

Do i even bother playing as wingman or just play as flight lead in every carrer?

[R33GZ]

1 hour ago, jokash said:

Do i even bother playing as wingman or just play as flight lead in every carrer?

Yep, that's it... you need to play as flight lead. You will still have problems with your mute squadron mates though. Ive lost count of the number of times I look left to check on my flight... and they're not there lol. They've buggered off without telling me where they are going or what they are doing and they generally will not respond to orders you give them, the exception being the RTB command

I should add. Communication can be created as text by the mission designer. But this would be highly scripted, so you could receive orders, but not really give them

[Gambit21]

? 

Fly Hell Hawks - that’s the only way you’re getting comms from Lead.

 

[Lusekofte]

Yes and Havocs over Kuban too. 
I think I do them again. 

[jokash]

9 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

?

Fly Hell Hawks - that’s the only way you’re getting comms from Lead.

 

Does it appear as scripted yellow "HUGE TEXT MESSAGE ACROSS SCREEN" communication? 

[Gambit21]

8 hours ago, jokash said:

Does it appear as scripted yellow "HUGE TEXT MESSAGE ACROSS SCREEN" communication? 

No

8 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

Yes and Havocs over Kuban too. 
I think I do them again. 

Havok is text only (because the squadron is Russian) to be clear, but yes.

[da11en47]

To say single player is lacking any depth, communication, re-playability is an understatement for me. I can't bring myself to buy anything else until single player gets a massive overhaul.

[jokash]

And the whole experience of the career is ruined by a few seemingly simply fixable things 

[Mtnbiker1998]

Yeah, singleplayer experience with AI is pretty lacking. Not just the comms, but the AI's behavior itself and the ability to command them could use a lot of improvement, to say nothing of the campaign engine itself with its repetitive template-based mission generation.

 

Its remarkable that 25 years ago we had games like Falcon 4 with wingmen that were far more useful and competent than we have today, with proper dynamic campaigns too. maybe the devs should spend some time in BMS for inspiration

 

 

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, jokash said:

And the whole experience of the career is ruined by a few seemingly simply fixable things 

It is obviously not a simple thing. We have complained about this since career was introduced 

scripted campaigns are different and highly recommended 

Some careers seems to work better than others

they are basically making a new game engine because among others this minor problem as you say

[jokash]

17 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

It is obviously not a simple thing. We have complained about this since career was introduced 

 

And what was the response?

[Gambit21]

19 hours ago, da11en47 said:

To say single player is lacking any depth, communication, re-playability is an understatement for me. I can't bring myself to buy anything else until single player gets a massive overhaul.

Aye - it’s not worth the time investment at all. I’ve flown 2 missions with time accel on while testing and that’s about all I could take. You’re better off in the QMB. Hopefully that changes but it’s going to take major effort and a shift in mind-set from the Devs.

 

 

 

 

Edit: Or AQMB - both offer the most fun vs career IMHO.

[LukeFF]

20 hours ago, jokash said:

And the whole experience of the career is ruined by a few seemingly simply fixable things 

 

I would highly suggest if you've not already done so to read the transcript of Han and Loft's interview they recently gave, in one of the recent dev blog entries. Changing the radio comms system requires a lot of in-depth work that can only be really resolved with a full overhaul.

 

19 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Its remarkable that 25 years ago we had games like Falcon 4 with wingmen that were far more useful and competent than we have today, with proper dynamic campaigns too. maybe the devs should spend some time in BMS for inspiration

 

See above. 😉

 

The team is well aware of the shortcomings of the current model.

[jokash]

I just played a bridge crossing attack mission and flight leader prior to bomb run said something like "Rook-circle and find your targets",10 seconds later,we did no circle,we just dived immediately towards the pontoon bridge and gathered troops.But this was better than literally nothing and seeing your whole flight dive without a word.I find it fun flying the I-16 as novice wingman.For some reason i was put as number 3 in formation,and keeping the formation is kinda satisfying if sometimes very hard (for now atleast).

[czech693]

Even in RL there's always something that doesn't get conveyed.  The noob who misses the radio freq change and doesn't notice the dead silence as he talks on the radio.  Chalk it up to reality and just tell yourself. " noboby tells me anything".

[jokash]

except when landing and taking off...then we talk for days how all numbers report take off,and how landing is permitted and not permitted 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

4 hours ago, jokash said:

I find it fun flying the I-16

Without detracting anything from your point about the underwhelming IL2 radio performance, which the Devs have acknowledged and are supposedly improving in their next title...

 

...but you do know that in 1941 most Soviet planes, including the I-16, weren't even fitted with radios, and until ca. 1943 not with properly working ones, right?

[R33GZ]

2 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

..but you do know that in 1941 most Soviet planes, including the I-16, weren't even fitted with radios, and until ca. 1943 not with properly working ones, right?

Hahaha. I did not know that. I should fly more eastern front careers, then I've got no reason to moan lol 😁

[Jaegermeister]

And you guys would really like Flying Circus. No radios at all, just colored flares to shoot.

 

[jokash]

13 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

...but you do know that in 1941 most Soviet planes, including the I-16, weren't even fitted with radios, and until ca. 1943 not with properly working ones, right?

Crossed my mind,but is this really the fact or...cause i already mention that we all talk on airfield (maybe they only have receivers?)

[AEthelraedUnraed]

1 hour ago, jokash said:

Crossed my mind,but is this really the fact or...cause i already mention that we all talk on airfield (maybe they only have receivers?)

Well, in IL2 all WW2 aircraft are equipped with radios. To clarify my earlier statement, I meant that most individual I-16s didn't have a radio, not that the I-16 as a type was never fitted with radio sets. Squadron/flight leaders were often given a radio set to communicate with ground control - occasionally these radios may even have been functional.

 

But basically speaking, for 1941 Soviet scenarios, the unrealistic part is not that some radio calls are lacking, but rather that the wingmen use radio at all. So given that you're flying the I-16, the lack of communication you experience is actually pretty authentic

 

In this famous photo, only the third MiG is fitted with a radio, as can be seen from the antenna in front of the cockpit. Although reportedly not even all aircraft with an antenna actually had a radio. Would be a nice mod: the option to leave out the radio entirely, in exchange for slightly less weight and improved aerodynamics as the antenna can be left off.

Edited April 9, 2024 by AEthelraedUnraed

[LukeFF]

Yes, just to add, it was typically only the bombers that were all equipped with radios at the beginning of the war, for the Red air forces. 

[Yogiflight]

21 hours ago, jokash said:

except when landing and taking off...then we talk for days how all numbers report take off,and how landing is permitted and not permitted 

or airfights of other squadrons. You constantly hear them calling out which aircraft they are attacking. But the most annoying one is my pilot, constantly telling me, which aircraft, in his oppinion, I will attack.

Usually I am the only one of my squadron communicating. So I am constantly talking to myself,... because noone else does so?

Edited April 9, 2024 by Yogiflight

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

One of the reason the soviets loved the P-39 is that it was actually equipped with a quality radio. So when you fly early birds like the I-16, the less you hear, the more realistic it is.

[jokash]

Well now we have a pretty important factor that plays a huge impact on how you play...being ambiguous in game environment?Do i have radios as I16 junior pilot,does my leader have it,is it represented ingame,is it represented by a rigid tight formation AI behavior on I16 flight model.

 

I dont know,the game didnt tell me anything.

[JG27_Steini]

Every plane in IL2 has a radio. There is no difference. The radio function is very limited over all or not functioning as exptected (command's) or not available to special flight positions (as wingman) or it is spamming you to death. 

 

Refering to historical facts might help for immersive reasons. 

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, jokash said:

Well now we have a pretty important factor that plays a huge impact on how you play...being ambiguous in game environment?Do i have radios as I16 junior pilot,does my leader have it,is it represented ingame,is it represented by a rigid tight formation AI behavior on I16 flight model.

 

I dont know,the game didnt tell me anything.

 

2 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

Every plane in IL2 has a radio. There is no difference. The radio function is very limited over all or not functioning as exptected (command's) or not available to special flight positions (as wingman) or it is spamming you to death. 

 

Refering to historical facts might help for immersive reasons. 

Pretty much what Steini says. The IL2 radio does not work "as intended" per se and is inadequate for things like 1944 western front. However in the specific case of 1941/1942 Soviet campaigns, the end result is actually pretty realistic

[Jaegermeister]

8 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

Every plane in IL2 has a radio. There is no difference.

 

If you don't consider Flying Circus part of IL-2 then I guess so... perhaps you mean all WWII planes in IL-2?

[JG4_Moltke1871]

58 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

If you don't consider Flying Circus part of IL-2 then I guess so... perhaps you mean all WWII planes in IL-2?

In fact the Flying Circus planes have radio. In Bomber intercept missions you get permanently updates about enemy positions. Also plane Icons can be interpreted as radio incoming….

I made this a topic.

Have a look in flying circus suggestions on discord or here :

 

 

[Hartigan]

I use "Cover me" command at the beginning of the mission if I want my flight to stay near me. That works pretty well when the flight arrives at combat zone

Edited April 11, 2024 by Hartigan

[nachinus]

Player agency when flying as wingman should be adressed too in the next installation. Wingman comms should include an 'enemy spotted/target spotted' call to force the lead AI to acknowledge the presence of the nearest enemy and take the appropiate decision rather than just continuing the flight path or mission plan. Also an emergency 'Break!' option to force the AI flight to instantly abandon flight plan/mission objective and fly defensively against nearest enemy fighters.

 

This two little thingies (not so little in the programmers end, I guess) would hugely improve current SP experience.

 

AI may be limited and heavily influenced by non-flexible mission parameters and may ignore threats and continue their plan when they are obviously threatened in a way that feels totally unrealistic and detracts from the player experience. Making the AI take realistic tactical decisions and self-preservation actitude that feels human would be wonderful, but if we can't get that, we can at least give the player ways to force the AI to react to threats or make sensible tactical options.

Edited April 14, 2024 by nachinus

[Gambit21]

On 4/14/2024 at 2:12 AM, nachinus said:

Player agency when flying as wingman should be adressed too in the next installation. Wingman comms should include an 'enemy spotted/target spotted' call to force the lead AI to acknowledge the presence of the nearest enemy and take the appropiate decision rather than just continuing the flight path or mission plan. Also an emergency 'Break!' option to force the AI flight to instantly abandon flight plan/mission objective and fly defensively against nearest enemy fighters.

 

This two little thingies (not so little in the programmers end, I guess) would hugely improve current SP experience.

 

AI may be limited and heavily influenced by non-flexible mission parameters and may ignore threats and continue their plan when they are obviously threatened in a way that feels totally unrealistic and detracts from the player experience. Making the AI take realistic tactical decisions and self-preservation actitude that feels human would be wonderful, but if we can't get that, we can at least give the player ways to force the AI to react to threats or make sensible tactical options.

 

Yeah it would be nice if this particular product could at least catch up to the old IL2.

Installing 1946 shouldn't be an upgrade in any way whatsoever...but it is in some ways unfortunately.

 

 

[Gunfreak]

I tired one career in FC as flight lead. 

AI didn't do anything. Couldn't get them to attack. They just milled about down low while I had to tackle all the Huns by myself.

[LukeFF]

19 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

I tired one career in FC as flight lead. 

AI didn't do anything. Couldn't get them to attack. They just milled about down low while I had to tackle all the Huns by myself.

 

Need track files. 🙂

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Need track files. 🙂

This was like a year ago. So no track