Odessa speculations (research, aircraft, discussions etc.)

[sevenless]

11 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Is anyone going to do Murmansk?... it's the only eastern front map I'm really interested in to be honest.

 

Nope. You have Il2-1946 for that. Use it wisely. After Il2-GB is finished with Odessa and Karelia you might not see any flight-sim dealing with eastfront affairs for the next 20 years.

[Avimimus]

18 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Nope. You have Il2-1946 for that. Use it wisely. After Il2-GB is finished with Odessa and Karelia you might not see any flight-sim dealing with eastfront affairs for the next 20 years.

 

Let's not panic. The two major flight simulator companies are both Russian in origin, and people who grow up with certain planes in local museums, grow up reading books and interacting with veterans from their own country etc. tend to have a strong imagination for it - I have no doubt that we'll see another Eastern European module within the next decade (e.g. six years seems plausible to me).

[sevenless]

9 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Let's not panic. The two major flight simulator companies are both Russian in origin, and people who grow up with certain planes in local museums, grow up reading books and interacting with veterans from their own country etc. tend to have a strong imagination for it - I have no doubt that we'll see another Eastern European module within the next decade (e.g. six years seems plausible to me).

 

DCS has nada to offer there. But I know what you mean. Keep your fingers crossed. Best IMHO would be, if 1C stays commercialy viable, that, at some time in the future, they port the GB stuff over to the Korea engine. Lets see if and when that might happen.

[Avimimus]

17 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

DCS has nada to offer there. But I know what you mean. Keep your fingers crossed. Best IMHO would be, if 1C stays commercialy viable, that, at some time in the future, they port the GB stuff over to the Korea engine. Lets see if and when that might happen.

 

Well, this is getting a bit off topic but - I will say that they won't really be 'porting' GB stuff over... the 3d models, flight models, and damage models will have to be remade from scratch - so they really only benefit from having already obtained references and experience.

 

However, the good news from the last interview is that they've expanded the flight model staff from three people to seven and are continuing to improve the workflow - which is a good sign. The bottleneck is the stuff which is done in-house, and we've seen third parties able to make good 3d models and maps in the past - so there is this slight chance that we'll someday see parallel development of two modules at once (e.g. with each on releasing in alternate years)... at least if the market can support that! But that is looking too far ahead - we're supposed to be looking at Odessa (and perhaps Finland).

 

 

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Already announced: Yak-3, La-7, I-153, and Ju 87 D-5. 

 

And...? 🙂🙃😁

 

Well, an early Yak and LaGG-3 were already mentioned. I'd assume a Fw-190A9 or Bf-109G10 is also plausible.

 

So that is seven aircraft.

 

I'm sure there is quite a bit of competition for that last slot (a later P-39 variant would make a lot of sense). I could also see a very early A-20G-1 or a Ju-87B/R.

 

As for me - I'd like a Pe-3, Fw-189, or Fi-156... who do I need to bribe?

 

P.S. There is also the possibility of a Finnish aircraft.

[sevenless]

48 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

A-20G

 

Yes! Perfect for Eastfront and ETO

 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

Anyway highly curious about the 8 plane package including any twin engines?

[sevenless]

7 minutes ago, JG4_Moltke1871 said:

Anyway highly curious about the 8 plane package including any twin engines?

 

I doubt it, but hope dies last 😅

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, Avimimus said:

I'm sure there is quite a bit of competition for that last slot (a later P-39 variant would make a lot of sense). I could also see a very early A-20G-1 or a Ju-87B/R.

There could also be the IL-2M and Pe-2 (1944), possibly the Hs-123. Would love to see an IL-4 but that’s not likely to happen.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Still hoping for P39Q.  A strong performing P39 would be a great addition.

[Avimimus]

33 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

There could also be the IL-2M

 

Ah, yes, the 'arrow winged' late model Il-2 was mentioned at one point as a possibility..

 

So I think we should brace ourselves for the following line-up:

Ju-87D-5

Il-2 (late)

I-153

LaGG-3 (early)

Yak-1 (early)

Yak-3

La-7

Fw-190A9 or Bf-109G10

 

I'd personally prefer to have a German spotter more than some of these fighters, and I'd kind-of like a Pe-3 (early) as an option, as it'd be an interesting opponent for the Bf-110 and Ju-88C6... but, well, at least we'll have a few more aircraft. The I-153 should be fun in Kuban (mountain flying close air support).

 

IMHO, they could make the La-7 a Collector Plane (as it arrived too late for any of our maps) and give us a Fw-189 or another aircraft that fills a gap.  

 

  

24 minutes ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Still hoping for P39Q.  A strong performing P39 would be a great addition.

 

Yes, it is a bit sad that we only have one P-39 variant - it is such an interesting aircraft!

[JG4_Moltke1871]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

 

I doubt it, but hope dies last 😅

Unfortunately, the same doubts plague me😩😩😅😅

[KodiakJac]

7 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Nope. You have Il2-1946 for that. Use it wisely. After Il2-GB is finished with Odessa and Karelia you might not see any flight-sim dealing with eastfront affairs for the next 20 years.

 

At least not until 1C releases a flyable B-25 for the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps!

 

And when 1C moves to development of the WWII Pacific, they'll be stuck having to develop a flyable B-25.  Like it or not, 1C is eventually going to have to develop a flyable B-25! 

[DetCord12B]

I'm actually excited for the Odessa map/campaign.

 

The He-114 and or Ar-196 makes sense as they were in both the Luftwaffe and Romanian inventories and saw extensive action in '41 and '44, utilized primarily for shipping interdiction. On that note however, given how prevalent that theater was with regards to anti-shipping missions, the devs are going to have to add aerial torpedo stores to new and existing aircraft as well as mission sets and parameters.

 

This (torpedo bombers) is something that's been sorely missing since Kuban released. That was a real missed opportunity, IMHO.

[sevenless]

3 hours ago, DetCord12B said:

 

I'm actually excited for the Odessa map/campaign.

 

 

The He-114 and or Ar-196 makes sense as they were in both the Luftwaffe and Romanian inventories and saw extensive action in '41 and '44, utilized primarily for shipping interdiction. On that note however, given how prevalent that theater was with regards to anti-shipping missions, the devs are going to have to add aerial torpedo stores to new and existing aircraft as well as mission sets and parameters.

 

 

This (torpedo bombers) is something that's been sorely missing since Kuban released. That was a real missed opportunity, IMHO.

 

 

Yep, the whole anti-shipping area is a big lost opportunity. Both in BoK and BoN.

[354thFG_Leifr]

6 hours ago, KodiakJac said:

 

At least not until 1C releases a flyable B-25 for the Normandy and Bodenplatte maps!

 

And when 1C moves to development of the WWII Pacific, they'll be stuck having to develop a flyable B-25.  Like it or not, 1C is eventually going to have to develop a flyable B-25! 

 

Luke said in the CB Discord that the B25 (likely J model) is a priority aircraft for the Pacific title. 🫡

[BMA_FlyingShark]

52 minutes ago, 356thFS_Leifr said:

 

Luke said in the CB Discord that the B25 (likely J model) is a priority aircraft for the Pacific title. 🫡

That's nice but let's not forget that that won't be in GB series.

 

 

Have a nice day.

 

[354thFG_Leifr]

7 hours ago, FlyingShark said:

That's nice but let's not forget that that won't be in GB series.

 

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

Oh shoot, sorry I thought I was in the Korea DD thread! Long days... 😴

To be fair, Kodiak was referencing the future Pacific title.

Edited September 12, 2024 by 356thFS_Leifr

[Avimimus]

9 hours ago, sevenless said:

Yep, the whole anti-shipping area is a big lost opportunity. Both in BoK and BoN.

 

Hmm... well, the sim includes both skip bombing and dive bombing... as well as a dedicated anti-ship version of the Mosquito... there is a bit of an issue in that high explosive rockets and cannon rounds are more effective than AP rockets and AP rounds against ships... but overall there is quite a lot of gameplay.

 

As for Odessa - it is worth noting that the Blohm und Voss BV-138 was also active alongside the He-114 and Ar-196 in this theatre! I think the fact that multiple crew positions would need to be modelled for the BV-138 and He-114 makes both aircraft quite unlikely, especially as they indicated that the simpler Pe-3 was unlikely (even with just two cockpit positions, which are connected with each other, and based on an existing aircraft). But perhaps a third party might stand a chance of getting an Ar-196 added (in theory at least).

 

Anyway, the Ar-196 wouldn't be that effective against large ships, but could attack submarines and torpedo boats, as well as do liaison and artillery spotting work. That said, I suspect most actual antishipping would have been done by land based aircraft... with the seaplanes/floatplanes mainly doing patrol and anti-submarine patrol work.

 

 

[LuftManu]

Dear friends,

 

I've been trying to estimate the map borders of the new Odessa map as per 1944 planes such as the Yak 3 and La 7 (And where they might fly)

Blacksix already explained and wrote about several units that took part in the operation.

 

I was thinking of what use could be done, as probably the initial assault in 1941 could be the most interesting part, but I was also interested in the late war.

 

This will be closing of the East Front  after all(looks like!)

 

With the pictures we've seen about some cities and taking into account the always rectangle borders, we could estimate and speculate.

 

We've seen Ackerman, Tirsapol and Balti. That leave us this area that represent the initial stages of the Jassy–Kishinev offensive, as the team mentioned. Also the 6th German Army Encirclement whit is  also another heavy and interesting battle. And even part of the frontline into the final days of August in 1944.

 

(Corners added to Balti and Ackerman. Both cities shown in latest GB DD)

Kind regards!

[Humbre79]

I am currently reading an excellent article on the role of the Stuka on the eastern front. The Ju87B2 played a very important role at the start of the war. It's really a missing plane and I can't imagine the map of Karelia without being able to attack the Soviet battleships in the port of Kronstadt. In addition it would also be useful on the map of Moscow.

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

12 hours ago, Humbre79 said:

I am currently reading an excellent article on the role of the Stuka on the eastern front. The Ju87B2 played a very important role at the start of the war. It's really a missing plane and I can't imagine the map of Karelia without being able to attack the Soviet battleships in the port of Kronstadt. In addition it would also be useful on the map of Moscow.

 

I agree, Ju87B2 would be useful also in an Odessa '41 scenario, in general it is a missing plane for any 1941 map.

[sevenless]

2 hours ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

 

I agree, Ju87B2 would be useful also in an Odessa '41 scenario, in general it is a missing plane for any 1941 map.

 

Would be very nice, but it didn't happen since the release of Battle of Moscow, so I won't hold my breath that a third party will spend time on it.

[Humbre79]

10 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Would be very nice, but it didn't happen since the release of Battle of Moscow, so I won't hold my breath that a third party will spend time on it.

8 planes are announced with the maps to fill the gaps, the Ju87B2 is one in my opinion. 

[sevenless]

18 minutes ago, Humbre79 said:

 the Ju87B2 is one in my opinion. 

 

Nope. The D5 is.

[Humbre79]

9 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Nope. The D5 is.

This does not exclure the Ju87b2. There a few german planes that are really missing, there can be both.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

13 hours ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

I agree, Ju87B2 would be useful also in an Odessa '41 scenario, in general it is a missing plane for any 1941 map.

And before. It would be very useful for 1940 scenarios on the Rheinland/Normandy maps as well.

 

IIRC, the Ju-87 D-5 is already sort of announced so I don't think we'll see a second Stuka, regrettably.

[sevenless]

15 minutes ago, Humbre79 said:

This does not exclure the Ju87b2. There a few german planes that are really missing, there can be both.

 

As I mentioned, the D5 is announced. The B2 isn't. Hence there has to be some third party taking that up. No, we can´t say it never will happen, but until someone has firm info on that, likelihood isn't that high also.

[Trooper117]

The B2 has been asked for forever... let's face it, they aren't going to do it... however, that doesn't mean I don't want it, I've asked for it myself in the past.

[Lusekofte]

I would like B 25 hardnose, A-20 G and A-26 on the new engine. 
If, the two engined planes get a more complex dm and not become flying zippo’s 

In old game engine those would not make me reinstall the game. They simply serve no purpose other than targets with super effect 

[LukeFF]

B-25 flyable is highly likely for the Pacific. 

[Enceladus828]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

B-25 flyable is highly likely for the Pacific. 

The C/D or J?

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, Enceladus828 said:

The C/D or J?

 

It would just be speculation at this point, as they are still busy with Korea. A lot would depend on which theatres they model. C/D would make sense of New Guinea (or any theatre before mid-late 1944), J would make sense for Philippines.

 

[Yogiflight]

On 9/11/2024 at 7:02 PM, Enceladus828 said:

Bf-110F-2.

Following the logic of the developers, that the Bf 110 E2 was purely a ground attack aircraft and therefore is flying with the DB 601 B engines in game (why it shouldn't be flying any fighter missions and should be used by AI as a ground attack aircraft like the two seater IL-2, not like a bomb carrying fighter aircraft), the Bf 110 E1, equipped with the DB 601 P engines might make more sense as it could be used for 1941/42 scenarios in fighter and ground attack missions.

[migmadmarine]

Question for Luke or a Dev, is it publicly confirmed that the I-153 is to be a part of the plane pack discussed in a DD a while back? Since it was on that road map, all of the other WWII aircraft on that list were either collector planes or a free patch with the spitfire Mk IX early, so I had always assumed that it would remain a stand alone, but a lot in here seem to take it as a given it will be a part of the patch. 

[LukeFF]

It's planned to have it as part of the module, yes.

[Nickkyboy99]

No He 112, CR.42 or Su-2... which were big players during Odessa 1941... 😢

[Missionbug]

10 minutes ago, Juri_JS said:

Apart from the 8 announced aircraft, is there a possibility we will also get one or two collector planes?

 

 

 

As far as I am aware the finnish group are in the process of having certain aircraft made for their map so I think it most likely those types will become the collector planes for this particular module, the Fiat G-50 I think was already shown by them.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[migmadmarine]

9 minutes ago, Missionbug said:

 

As far as I am aware the finnish group are in the process of having certain aircraft made for their map so I think it most likely those types will become the collector planes for this particular module, the Fiat G-50 I think was already shown by them.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Yea, they have a Fiat G.50 and Brewster Buffalo in the works and aspirations beyond that. 

13 minutes ago, Nickkyboy99 said:

No He 112, CR.42 or Su-2... which were big players during Odessa 1941... 😢

Yea, I sympathize. Not super stoked on the late Stuka, kinda get the utility of the earlier email, though it won't be wildly different from the existing E-7. Do think the earlier production Yak and LaGG will be good to have. I suppose the arrow-wing Il-2 is iconic in its way, so fair enough there. Was half hoping for the HS-123 myself. 

[FeuerFliegen]

40 minutes ago, Nickkyboy99 said:

No He 112, CR.42 or Su-2... which were big players during Odessa 1941... 😢

 

 

Man I didn't know the He112 was there.... that would have been awesome!  And the CR.42 would be perfect too.

 

Quote

Three of the seven aircraft are now complete, both visually and physically, and the others are in some stage of completion.

 

What do you mean by "seven" aircraft?  There are eight listed?

 

 

 

The best thing that I personally know about the Stuka D-5 is the fact that it has MG151/20 cannons, apparently with a high ammo count.

 

 

I really didn't think there were enough differences compared to the E-7 to warrant the Bf109 E-4 as one of the planes; I'd moreso think of it like what they did with the Spitfire Mk.IXc, where they threw it in for free a while after Normandy was released... not that I'd expect freebees but it's also nothing we would buy on it's own, if I'm right that there are almost no differences other than the front spinner, and the fact that it can't take a drop tank.

 

 

 

Can anyone tell me what some of the differences are regarding the Yak-1 ser. 23?  and the Il-2 mod. 1944 with swept wing?

[Juri_JS]

26 minutes ago, Missionbug said:

 

As far as I am aware the finnish group are in the process of having certain aircraft made for their map so I think it most likely those types will become the collector planes for this particular module, the Fiat G-50 I think was already shown by them.

I know of the G-50, I just wonder if the devs plan to create additional collector aircraft themselves.