Bf 109 G-10

[I./JG53_BlackJaguar]

I'm happy that we have so many 109s, I would still love tike to see the G-10. I have to say it is my favorite 109

[I/JG53_Kurtz]

I totally agree, 100%. G-10 is essential in this simulation, it was produced in 2600 examples and used on all fronts, It is a must. Moreover I suppose that would be a quick job for developers to develop it starting from existing Gustavs.

[sevenless]

2 hours ago, I/JG53_Kurtz said:

I totally agree, 100%. G-10 is essential in this simulation, it was produced in 2600 examples and used on all fronts, It is a must. Moreover I suppose that would be a quick job for developers to develop it starting from existing Gustavs.

 

You never know. Certainly low hanging fruit. Basically take the G6/AS exterior and combine it with the engine of the K4. Job done...Quick & Dirty...

[DBFlyguy]

drop tanks... nope

AI B-17 or B-24... nope

A-20G collector aircraft... nope

flyable B-26... nope

flyable B-25.... nope

 

 

So, we'll probably get the G10 eventually.

[Lusekofte]

55 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

So, we'll probably get the G10 eventually.

I was actually waiting for an announcement on this. I don’t mind others happiness. So I won’t object nor buy it

[FliegerAD]

If there is a G-10 collector's plane, there won't be a late war module with German planes anytime soon. Does not look like it anyway, but still...

 

The Bf 109 G-10 and Fw 190 A-9 are the only two German late war mainstay fighters left undone. They would be mandatory for any module set in 44/45 featuring the Luftwaffe.

If there is no such module, yes, we should get them asap. They would bring in money. I mean, there is the G-14/AS but that would be quite silly given the difference would be the oil cooler.

 

(Also, it would be nice for our Hungarian friends since they had no K-4s iirc, so the G-10 would be their best fighter)

[Juri_JS]

The Bf-109 G-10 is also my favorite 109 version, but I really wish we had a 1944/45 eastern front map to fly it on. Most, if not all, Luftwaffe units that flew the G-10 were send to the east after January 1945. So the period we could use it on the Rhineland map is rather short (December 1944 to January 1945).

[CountZero]

5 hours ago, FliegerAD said:

If there is a G-10 collector's plane, there won't be a late war module with German planes anytime soon. Does not look like it anyway, but still...

 

The Bf 109 G-10 and Fw 190 A-9 are the only two German late war mainstay fighters left undone. They would be mandatory for any module set in 44/45 featuring the Luftwaffe.

If there is no such module, yes, we should get them asap. They would bring in money. I mean, there is the G-14/AS but that would be quite silly given the difference would be the oil cooler.

 

(Also, it would be nice for our Hungarian friends since they had no K-4s iirc, so the G-10 would be their best fighter)

We are already gona get Ta-152H, Yak-3 and La-7 as collector airplanes, all airplanes that would be neccesary in late war module. So you aint gona get any late war DLCs for this game thats for sure if Yak-3 or La-7 is gona be collector and they would have to be main soviet airplanes in any late war dlc. There aint gona be more DLCs for this game, just collector airplanes, most likely fighters, and user made maps.

109g10 will come as collector maybe with next years batch of fighters.

[sevenless]

8 hours ago, FliegerAD said:

They would bring in money. I mean, there is the G-14/AS but that would be quite silly given the difference would be the oil cooler.

 

Erm, we already have the G14/AS. The collector allows you to fly the G6/AS (DB 605 AS engine) and the MW50 using G14/AS (DB 605 ASM/ASB engine). What you might mean is the lack of the DB 605 ASC engine powered planes.

[Hanu]

33 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Erm, we already have the G14/AS. The collector allows you to fly the G6/AS (DB 605 AS engine) and the MW50 using G14/AS (DB 605 ASM/ASB engine). What you might mean is the lack of the DB 605 ASC engine powered planes.

 

Well for skinning purposes, I'd like to see G6 variant with Erla haube and older smaller tail

I'd have A LOT of Finnish Messerschmitt's more to paint. (Just to say there are always some idiots like me to be happy for a small change ?)

[FliegerAD]

7 hours ago, sevenless said:

Erm, we already have the G14/AS. The collector allows you to fly the G6/AS (DB 605 AS engine) and the MW50 using G14/AS (DB 605 ASM/ASB engine). What you might mean is the lack of the DB 605 ASC engine powered planes.

 

The later production batches were to be equipped with the Fo 987 which would be a difference to what we have in game, the Fo 970 (if I am not mistaken). Obviously that is a small difference both visually and in terms of performance. Not enough that I would consider buying a G-14/AS (late) collector's aircraft.

Also, due to the lack of Fo 987 and the abundance of the smaller cooler units few G-14s actually came with it.

 

11 hours ago, CountZero said:

We are already gona get Ta-152H, Yak-3 and La-7 as collector airplanes, all airplanes that would be neccesary in late war module. So you aint gona get any late war DLCs for this game thats for sure if Yak-3 or La-7 is gona be collector and they would have to be main soviet airplanes in any late war dlc.

Very perceptive of you, maybe that is why I wrote "it does not look like it". ? Though, as we have established as well, the Ta 152 is certainly not a 'necessity' given its low impact even by Luftwaffe standards of 1945. It is really there because it has fans, and fans among the devs too it seems.

 

And yes, as long as there is any development for GB, the G-10 is very likely to come sooner or later. At this point it is about making quick money and late war planes are the way to go. I do not blame them...

[David_4555]

The more 109's the better. Please don't ban me

[EAF19_Marsh]

36 minutes ago, David_4555 said:

The more 109's the better. Please don't ban me

By the Power Of Grayskull, I ban thee to the He-112 dimension.

[354thFG_Panda_]

39 minutes ago, David_4555 said:

The more 109's the better. Please don't ban me

 

[LuftManu]

The Bf 109 G-10 is a cool one! I would definetly like it. As well as another P-47 version or a Mk.Vc with the ability to fly with the CW for the Channel Map. ?

[BMA_FlyingShark]

1 hour ago, LuftManu said:

The Bf 109 G-10 is a cool one! I would definetly like it. As well as another P-47 version or a Mk.Vc with the ability to fly with the CW for the Channel Map. ?

I would like to ad an early P-51 to this.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[MAJ_stug41]

A late bagration module about vistula-oder or budapest would be very cool, and bring the russian aircraft in line with those of the west.

 

Imagine 190A9, 109G10, La7, Yak3, Tu2...

[sevenless]

38 minutes ago, MAJ_stug41 said:

Imagine 190A9, 109G10, La7, Yak3, Tu2...

 

Don´t worry. In the last Q&A vid they more or less announced all of those except for the G-10. Releasing them as collector planes makes commercially sense.

 

See minutes 15:35 and 14:30 of the transcript

 

 

[kestrel79]

What's so great about the G-10 version compared to the others?

[Duggy]

34 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

What's so great about the G-10 version compared to the others?

"The Bf-109G-10 was a sub-type that attempted to increase high-altitude performance, and was in fact the fastest of the entire 109 series, with a top speed of 437 m.p.h. at rated altitude of 28,000 feet." 

[FliegerAD]

43 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

What's so great about the G-10 version compared to the others?

 

Not much with the G-6/AS (-14/AS) and the K-4 being available, tbh, when it comes to raw performance. You could argue it is almost on K-4 level but offers the 20mm option for the Motorkanone.

Btw., I would doubt the G-10 was faster than the K-4 at any altitude. The K-4's airframe is much cleaner and it usually the same engine... or better.

 

However, The G-10 is historically significant, especially on the Eastern Front, and it was the most advanced fighter to be given to Germany's few remaining allies.

[Kurfurst]

13 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Erm, we already have the G14/AS. The collector allows you to fly the G6/AS (DB 605 AS engine) and the MW50 using G14/AS (DB 605 ASM/ASB engine). What you might mean is the lack of the DB 605 ASC engine powered planes.

 

With the G-14/AS, you might get an excuse for the interim 1,9ata engine setting as used by JG 11, but that's pretty much it, otherwise pretty much same ratings/performance as G-10 (common to all AS/D engined versions by late war). 

 

The G-10 makes far more sense for either a late war Italian or Eastern front operation (Balaton map).

Edited March 6, 2024 by VO101Kurfurst

[FeuerFliegen]

9 hours ago, Duggy said:

"The Bf-109G-10 was a sub-type that attempted to increase high-altitude performance, and was in fact the fastest of the entire 109 series, with a top speed of 437 m.p.h. at rated altitude of 28,000 feet." 

 

I wouldn't have thought this to be the case, as the K-4 has the same engine but is more aerodynamic.  What makes the G-10 faster?  I assume it weights slightly less, but aerodynamics are far more important for top speed than a small percentage in weight difference.

[the_emperor]

Well, I have a G-10 manual that says that the airframe is the same as the K-4 with fully covered Landing gear and the instruction to install the retractable tailwheel. 
So you could really just put a 20mm cannon in the K-4 modell and maybe adjust for the weight difference. Easy cash for the devs for a collector plane

[Aurora_Stealth]

11 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

With the G-14/AS, you might get an excuse for the interim 1,9ata engine setting as used by JG 11, but that's pretty much it, otherwise pretty much same ratings/performance as G-10 (common to all AS/D engined versions by late war). 

 

The G-10 makes far more sense for either a late war Italian or Eastern front operation (Balaton map).

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here... (this may be just be a perpetuated myth in historical literature) but my understanding is that there was a particular production run of G-10's built by the Erla factory which was meant to have included some weight saving or lightening changes to the airframe or equipment at the Erla factory...

 

Again I'm not sure if this was documented, but it seems like this has contributed to some of the popular "dogfighter" status on the G-10.

 

If so, the advantages to (specifically) an Erla built G-10 seem like they would have been constrained to climb rate and manoeuvrability compared to the heavier K-4 while having similar speed to a G-6/AS and G-14/AS due to aerodynamics etc.

 

It's just what I've read from secondary sources, do you have any knowledge or documentation on this Kurfurst?

[sevenless]

 

On 3/6/2024 at 11:12 PM, VO101Kurfurst said:

The G-10 makes far more sense for either a late war Italian or Eastern front operation (Balaton map).

 

Yep. Even for Rheinland the G10 makes sense, because a lot of them were used in the west in 44/45.

 

When they do it, if they do it, I´d love to see the real musterduck it was including options to switch engines from AS to ASM to DB/DC.

Edited March 9, 2024 by sevenless
amended

[I./JG53_BlackJaguar]

18 hours ago, Duggy said:

"The Bf-109G-10 was a sub-type that attempted to increase high-altitude performance, and was in fact the fastest of the entire 109 series, with a top speed of 437 m.p.h. at rated altitude of 28,000 feet." 

 

Exactly...:)

[percydanvers]

I'd really like a 109 G-10 for the same reason I'm hyped for the Ta-152 - it's just a last lingering missing piece of the design family. You can't talk about late war 109s without the G-10.

[LukeFF]

8 hours ago, the_emperor said:

Well, I have a G-10 manual that says that the airframe is the same as the K-4 with fully covered Landing gear and the instruction to install the retractable tailwheel. 
So you could really just put a 20mm cannon in the K-4 modell and maybe adjust for the weight difference. Easy cash for the devs for a collector plane

 

The cockpit of the G-10 is significantly different from the K-4.

 

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196264/messerschmitt-bf-109g-10/

[Juri_JS]

The G-10 was also the only late war Bf-109 that was produced as camera equipped recon version. In early 1945 it replaced the G-6 and G-8 in close range recon units. The G-10 could be the last chance to get a camera modification for the Bf-109 in GB.

[Kurfurst]

11 hours ago, Aurora_Stealth said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here... (this may be just be a perpetuated myth in historical literature) but my understanding is that there was a particular production run of G-10's built by the Erla factory which was meant to have included some weight saving or lightening changes to the airframe or equipment at the Erla factory...

 

Again I'm not sure if this was documented, but it seems like this has contributed to some of the popular "dogfighter" status on the G-10.

 

If so, the advantages to (specifically) an Erla built G-10 seem like they would have been constrained to climb rate and manoeuvrability compared to the heavier K-4 while having similar speed to a G-6/AS and G-14/AS due to aerodynamics etc.

 

It's just what I've read from secondary sources, do you have any knowledge or documentation on this Kurfurst?

 

AFAIK there was only one type of G-10, so no ‘light’ version, the Erla ones had slightly different chin cowling but IIRC that’s it. All of them were new builds and all had the DB605D. The G-10 had no other purpose than stuffing K-4 parts (engine and generator) into a G series airframe so not to interfere with production lines.

 

The standard G-10 was a bit lighter than the K-4 but only because it had the MG 151, not the MK108. The G-10/U4 (MK 108) was practically the same weight as the K-4, some 20 kg lighter which comes down to minor equipment differences adding up. 

 

OTOH the WNF (Austrian / Czech) manufactured planes seem to be ones that the most often seen with aileron Flettners installed (G-6s, -14s and G-10) and with MK 108  so that may be  a nice mod to have to differentiate them a bit, with a bit of boost in high speed roll rate.

 

 

10 hours ago, sevenless said:

When they do it, if they do it, I´d love to see the real ---- it was including options to switch engines from AS to ASM to DB/DC.

 

 

 

Those are all practically the same engines (A-series large supercharger and D-series with large supercharger), even the ratings are the same between the late AS and D series. Its just the designation that changed in late 1944 to correspond their fuel/boost rating. 

 

Early designation until late 1944

 

AS - 1.42 ata, no MW-50

ASM - 1.7ata MW50

DM - 1.75 ata MW 50

 

in late 44 designation was changed to as the boost ratings were increased:

 

AB - 1.7 ata (its the old DB 605AM with no change) 

ASB / DB - when set 1.8 ata

ASC  / DC - when set to 1.98 ata

(JG 11 employed an intermediate 1.9ata or their AS and D engines)

 

Engines were to be marked with big white B and C letters depending on manifold pressure and fuel settings, but every AS and D could be set to be either in about 1-2 hours. 

 

As such late war G-14/AS, G-10 and K-4 were practically identical in power&performance save for the K’s aerodynamic improvements.

[sevenless]

14 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Early designation until late 1944

 

AS - 1.42 ata, no MW-50

ASM - 1.7ata MW50

DM - 1.75 ata MW 50

 

in late 44 designation was changed to as the boost ratings were increased:

 

AB - 1.7 ata (its the old DB 605AM with no change) 

ASB / DB - when set 1.8 ata

ASC  / DC - when set to 1.98 ata

(JG 11 employed an intermediate 1.9ata or their AS and D engines)

 

Thats what I meant. Integrate the option to have the variety of different engine/boost settings in one collector plane. Lets see if they do that.

 

From JaPo on G10/U4 in Czechia:

 

[Aurora_Stealth]

14 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

AFAIK there was only one type of G-10, so no ‘light’ version, the Erla ones had slightly different chin cowling but IIRC that’s it. All of them were new builds and all had the DB605D. The G-10 had no other purpose than stuffing K-4 parts (engine and generator) into a G series airframe so not to interfere with production lines.

 

The standard G-10 was a bit lighter than the K-4 but only because it had the MG 151, not the MK108. The G-10/U4 (MK 108) was practically the same weight as the K-4, some 20 kg lighter which comes down to minor equipment differences adding up. 

 

OTOH the WNF (Austrian / Czech) manufactured planes seem to be ones that the most often seen with aileron Flettners installed (G-6s, -14s and G-10) and with MK 108  so that may be  a nice mod to have to differentiate them a bit, with a bit of boost in high speed roll rate.

 

 

 

Those are all practically the same engines (A-series large supercharger and D-series with large supercharger), even the ratings are the same between the late AS and D series. Its just the designation that changed in late 1944 to correspond their fuel/boost rating. 

 

Early designation until late 1944

 

AS - 1.42 ata, no MW-50

ASM - 1.7ata MW50

DM - 1.75 ata MW 50

 

in late 44 designation was changed to as the boost ratings were increased:

 

AB - 1.7 ata (its the old DB 605AM with no change) 

ASB / DB - when set 1.8 ata

ASC  / DC - when set to 1.98 ata

(JG 11 employed an intermediate 1.9ata or their AS and D engines)

 

Engines were to be marked with big white B and C letters depending on manifold pressure and fuel settings, but every AS and D could be set to be either in about 1-2 hours. 

 

As such late war G-14/AS, G-10 and K-4 were practically identical in power&performance save for the K’s aerodynamic improvements.

 

Thanks for clearing that up - makes good sense now with that context.

[Eisenfaustus]

On 3/6/2024 at 1:03 AM, FliegerAD said:

there won't be a late war module

Well there won't be any other GB WWII modules ever again as I understood it. The team is working on Korea not as a GB module but as the starting point for a new series - correct me if I'm wrong.

 

This means a few collector planes and some usermade maps (hopefully backed up by careers?) is all we ever gonna get for GB.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

26 minutes ago, Eisenfaustus said:

Well there won't be any other GB WWII modules ever again as I understood it. The team is working on Korea not as a GB module but as the starting point for a new series - correct me if I'm wrong.

It may or may not be a new series (though probably incompatible with the current game either way), but Han said in a video somewhere that they plan to go WW2 PTO next.

 

Of course things like that may change if for instance Combat Pilot turns out to be very successful, since that would be an obvious competitor for PTO operations. But at least it shows that WW2 content is still planned

[I./JG53_BlackJaguar]

I will happily pay forBf-109 G10, as a collector plane  

[NooneYouKnow]

yes, must have ALL the 109's, lol.

190's, Spits, Mustangs and Yak's too. Bought everything else so far (except for transports and the U-2 biplane), would buy the G-10, more Rustangs, more Spits, etc. I'd Whine for the B-25 and B-26, too, but they said not happening. Booooo...

[I./JG53_BlackJaguar]

 Dear development team,

 

Is there a possibility that Bf-109 G10 will ever see the light of the day or...

 

Thank you

 

Peter

[LukeFF]

We'll let you know when we announce our future plans for GB. 🙂

[ITAF_Rani]

3 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

We'll let you know when we announce our future plans for GB. 🙂

Thanks Luke...maybe after summer?