Large Squadrons Ruin Multiplayer

[ColeG8]

The past few months the game is lucky to have one full server a month. The rest of the time it's at most a couple of half full servers and between 30-120 people. This isn't caused by a lack of new content, but small groups of players making the experience unplayable for anyone who doesn't belong to them.

 

When 4 squads of five people on discord join a server and refuse to balance teams because their squad "only flies axis/allies" they ruin all of multiplayer that day for anyone who plays solo. These squads in discord are perfectly content flying 20 vs 6. The majority of people in multiplayer want to have a fun and fair dogfight, not be spotted by 4 guys in a call and forced to run or suicide into them. It's causing the entire multiplayer scene to lose players. No one wants to spend time getting their setup together, take off from an airfield and realize everyone is flying together so you are wasting your time. The majority of the player base is not in a squadron. As long as this persists I won't be populating the servers, and many people have already stopped due to the same issue.

If anyone can point me to a community or server plugin that sets up 1v1 dog fights I may play again. Until then these insular communities will continue to kill the game they enjoy through their own obstinance.

[JG27_Steini]

19 minutes ago, ColeG8 said:

The past few months the game is lucky to have one full server a month. The rest of the time it's at most a couple of half full servers and between 30-120 people. This isn't caused by a lack of new content, but small groups of players making the experience unplayable for anyone who doesn't belong to them.

 

When 4 squads of five people on discord join a server and refuse to balance teams because their squad "only flies axis/allies" they ruin all of multiplayer that day for anyone who plays solo. These squads in discord are perfectly content flying 20 vs 6. The majority of people in multiplayer want to have a fun and fair dogfight, not be spotted by 4 guys in a call and forced to run or suicide into them. It's causing the entire multiplayer scene to lose players. No one wants to spend time getting their setup together, take off from an airfield and realize everyone is flying together so you are wasting your time. The majority of the player base is not in a squadron. As long as this persists I won't be populating the servers, and many people have already stopped due to the same issue.

If anyone can point me to a community or server plugin that sets up 1v1 dog fights I may play again. Until then these insular communities will continue to kill the game they enjoy through their own obstinance.

 

Squadrons are the fundament of multiplayer and keep the MP alive, recruiting and training new pilots. This game is not about balance, but simulation. If the german squadrons in WW2 had a chance against a huge amount of enemies, i am sure you also have.

[von_Tom]

1 hour ago, ColeG8 said:

The majority of people in multiplayer want to have a fun and fair dogfight...

 

I'd rather zoom down and blast someone who hadn't seen me coming.  "Fairness" (whatever that is) doesn't play into it at all.

 

I kinda agree with the balanced sides bit (20 v 6 would be tedious for both sides) but if me and 5 or my squad mates fly together then we'll be on the same side - usually the side with less pilots.  If that then makes it unbalanced, that's a shame but you can still deal with it.  Most of the time we're on jabo/fighter-bomber stuff so we tend not to have any kind of advantage.

 

You'd be better off pointing the finger at those that fly alone, camp over their own targets, and shoulder-shoot because killz = big -----...  It's much better to be in one of those 4, 5 or 6 pilot groups.

 

von Tom

[ColeG8]

1 minute ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

Squadrons are the fundament of multiplayer and keep the MP alive, recruiting and training new pilots. This game is not about balance, but simulation. If the german squadrons in WW2 had a chance against a huge amount of enemies, i am sure you also have.

Buddy, this is a game. You aren't "training pilots" You are adding another person to your discord to share info with on a server layer. Most people are looking for a dog fight simulator when they play a multiplayer WW2 flight sim. They aren't looking to be teamed up on by squadrons of 4 people all on the other team. There is a marked difference in player count, and I can promise squadrons are only detracting from the player count, not adding to it.

7 solo players vs 20 people in a discord is a common occurrence every single day on these servers. You can think the way you want to, but you're going to run out of goodwill from the majority of players who fly solo and want fair dog fights. Our views are incongruent, and you obviously won't change yours bc you have a prefix in front of your name.

[SYN_Ricky]

2 minutes ago, ColeG8 said:

Most people are looking for a dog fight simulator when they play a multiplayer WW2 flight sim.

Not sure about this. Some want to fly missions to get an idea of how it was. Some want to ground pound interesting targets, some want an historical recreation of the period, some just want shoot down stuff...most people in squads want to fly as a group and try to complete a mission. Even flying on the most numerous side and doing ground attack you often get blasted by guys hanging over the targets while nearly no one on their side tries to complete objectives. So even flying in squad is not always that fun...

[ColeG8]

4 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

 

I'd rather zoom down and blast someone who hadn't seen me coming.  "Fairness" (whatever that is) doesn't play into it at all.

 

I kinda agree with the balanced sides bit (20 v 6 would be tedious for both sides) but if me and 5 or my squad mates fly together then we'll be on the same side - usually the side with less pilots.  If that then makes it unbalanced, that's a shame but you can still deal with it.  Most of the time we're on jabo/fighter-bomber stuff so we tend not to have any kind of advantage.

 

You'd be better off pointing the finger at those that fly alone, camp over their own targets, and shoulder-shoot because killz = big weiners...  It's much better to be in one of those 4, 5 or 6 pilot groups.

 

von Tom

I don't only posit "fair" as no height or speed advantage. But if you're a solo pilot, and the entire other team is already imbalanced, and full of sections of 4-5 fighters all in a discord call your options are run away or die in 99.99% of situations. I don't even understand how the 4 fighters in discord can stand all chasing one person every 10 minutes.

I only mention a 1v1 plugin as it's the easiest way to achieve an environment devoid of private discords.

I don't expect people to agree with me on the forum, bc a large percentage of forum users are the same people that I'm addressing as a problem to the player base at large.

I do not care to join a server I can't effectively fly a fighter in. Many others think like me whether you agree or not, and all of that is compounding into a dying multiplayer scene. 

No one wants to get their sim set up ready to be ambushed by 4 other pilots when you've got one beat, and are killed before you can finish the fight. You need solo players to populate servers, and going around as a squadron of 4-5 clubbing solo planes with all your might does not increase the player base. 

1 minute ago, SYN_Ricky said:

Not sure about this. Some want to fly missions to get an idea of how it was. Some want to ground pound interesting targets, some want an historical recreation of the period, some just want shoot down stuff...most people in squads want to fly as a group and try to complete a mission. Even flying on the most numerous side and doing ground attack you often get blasted by guys hanging over the targets while nearly no one on their side tries to complete objectives. So even flying in squad is not always that fun...

I disagree, and that's fine. I believe the majority  (not all) of people who wish to fly on multiplayer servers want a fun PVP dogfighting experience. 

[No145_Bunny]

You could join a Squadron and "see" how the other sock feels in the same shoe ?

Check us out at Tangmere Pilots.

Edited January 26, 2024 by No145_Bunny

[von_Tom]

9 minutes ago, ColeG8 said:

I do not care to join a server I can't effectively fly a fighter in. Many others think like me whether you agree or not, and all of that is compounding into a dying multiplayer scene. 
 

 

 

“Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice.”

 

A Piece of Cake

Derek Robinson

 

Sadly by flying alone you have made your choice.  Combat flying in reality or in computer games has never been about solo pilots - that died out in Novemer 2018.  Find someone to fly with and it is much more fun.  A pair can be tremendously effective and makes it much easier to not get dragged into something you cannot get out of.

 

Edit:  Most people who want to play on amultiplayer server want to shoot people down or blow stuff up without being shot down themselves.  Flying solo really hampers their chances unless they are very SA astute, fly defensively and only ever hit and run.

 

I understand the frustration about being outnumbered but thankfully it's a game/simulation.  If you're outnumbered you don't have to engage - fly smart and you have a target-rich environment.

 

von Tom

Edited January 26, 2024 by von_Tom

[ColeG8]

34 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

“Up there the world is divided into bastards and suckers. Make your choice.”

 

A Piece of Cake

Derek Robinson

 

Sadly by flying alone you have made your choice.  Combat flying in reality or in computer games has never been about solo pilots - that died out in Novemer 2018.  Find someone to fly with and it is much more fun.  A pair can be tremendously effective and makes it much easier to not get dragged into something you cannot get out of.

 

Edit:  Most people who want to play on amultiplayer server want to shoot people down or blow stuff up without being shot down themselves.  Flying solo really hampers their chances unless they are very SA astute, fly defensively and only ever hit and run.

 

I understand the frustration about being outnumbered but thankfully it's a game/simulation.  If you're outnumbered you don't have to engage - fly smart and you have a target-rich environment.

 

von Tom

 

We're on two different planets. I don't want to only fly safely. I want an environment where I can consistently practice dogfighting maneuvers and principles. I do not want to turn on VR set up controllers and rudders, launch the game, load a server, take off, and fly for 20 minutes to see a large group of things I can't fight, and fly back to base and land. You can do that all day against AI if you want. I don't care about being beaten in a dog fight, I care about being able to actually employ maneuvers instead of being swarmed by people in a discord call.

If anyone has a community server, or plugin that allows them to do this let me know. Until then I don't have an hour and a half to waste flying and landing and running.

[von_Tom]

Practice 1 v 1 against AI because unless you have a friend to practice with that is the only way you will get to consistently practice manoeuvres.  The only other options you have are:

 

1.  Take off, fly high, stay fast. hunt for enemies, attack the highest one and extend away.  No turning. (What you'd do in reality in some respects.)

 

2.  Fly at mid height near the front line and engage everything you see, twisting and turning and knowing that you will be shot down a lot. (What you'd see in reality if you were inexperienced and outnumbered.)

 

3.  Fly very low and fast and hunt enemies at low level.  Avoid anything that is higher than you or which you cannot damage significantly in one go. (Not like reality at all but bottom feeding can be good fun.)

 

Regardless of what you think, the large groups are not necessarily the worst thing because you've actually seen them and can decide (provided you have height and speed etc) not to get dragged into a fight that you will lose.  The worst thing is the enemy you don't see whilst you're having fun "playing" with someone.  They don't care about that - they just want to blow you apart.

 

As evidence, go and fly over an enemy target close to the front lines.  Most of the pilots there won't be flying in a group.

 

von Tom

[ColeG8]

To make a comparison for anyone that knows Escape from Tarkov. You're telling me all about the game and how it's so cool that you have to eat and drink and find ammo etc. I'm saying I like the way the guns and combat is modelled and just want to have gunfights without all of the extra stuff (Tarkov Arena). This is a more complete professionally flight modeled ww2 simulator than there ever has been. I don't want simulate what a pilot would do day to day, I want to dogfight.

[von_Tom]

3 minutes ago, ColeG8 said:

I don't want simulate what a pilot would do day to day, I want to dogfight.

 

That's cool, though dogfighting also isn't really a thing and also never has been the mode of combat through choice since WWI.

 

What you really mean though is that other people who want to simulate what real pilots did, or want to fly in a smart way, are ruining your fun. 

 

This is probably true, so you have the option of tempering your own expectations or flying smart.

 

Either way I wish you many happy hours.

 

o7

 

von Tom  

[ColeG8]

Just now, von_Tom said:

 

That's cool, though dogfighting also isn't really a thing and also never has been the mode of combat through choice since WWI.

 

What you really mean though is that other people who want to simulate what real pilots did, or want to fly in a smart way, are ruining your fun. 

 

This is probably true, so you have the option of tempering your own expectations or flying smart.

 

Either way I wish you many happy hours.

 

o7

 

von Tom  

Again, you're talking past me. I want to know if there is a community, or server plugin that allows people to consistently respawn and get into combat with eachother. I'm not looking for people who think differently than me, I'm looking for the best way commercially available to fly against people.

 

The premise that all of the current servers started with is that "wars" or "missions" will force people to get into conflict. I don't want the pretense of an objective, I want a plugin or server where I can consistently dogfight. I don't need you to condescend with historical quotes.

 

I'm not trying to convince you that what I want is what you should want. I'm trying to find a place where I don't have to commit 2 hours of my time for 2-3 dogfights outnumbered 4-1. I want them one after the other, with randomized starting points. Height advantage, speed discrepancy etc.

[=MERCS=Warrior*]

Hello Cole, 

I would love to invite you to my server called Air Attack Tactical Combat. We do a lot of fun things like events 1v1 tournaments, 2v2 tournaments, squad battles, Fun events, historical events, etc etc. We play on very easy settings because we are a server that like to have fun and not fly the realistic style of IL-2. Would love to get on discord with you and explain more of what we do and what we have to offer. 

Thank You 
Air Attack Tactical Combat

Discord Link:
https://discord.gg/mGH2Mh7xD2

[von_Tom]

3 minutes ago, ColeG8 said:

I want to know if there is a community, or server plugin that allows people to consistently respawn and get into combat with eachother.

 

The whole premise of your first post was that large groups are spoiling multiplayer.

 

Try the Berloga 1 v 1 server if it is still running.  Or quick mission v AI.

 

von Tom

 

 

Edited January 26, 2024 by von_Tom

[ColeG8]

24 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

The whole premise of your first post was that large groups are spoiling multiplayer.

 

Try the Berloga 1 v 1 server if it is still running.  Or quick mission v AI.

 

von Tom

I still believe that, I was able to have more fun when the servers were more populated and diluted the amount of squads to solo you see. Now the game is hemorrhaging players because that ratio has switched and these servers are so easily controlled by them. Meaning I did enjoy Finnish until it was filled entirely with discord calls. So instead of taking 10-15 minutes and finding another solo or duo squad to fight I spend twice the time to find groups of 4-5 guys that I can't fight bc they're at cloud base and I can't see through clouds to take a altitude advantage. So the easiest solution to my problem is to find servers or communities that inherently don't allow squads. ie. 1v1

 

Me expressing that my enjoyment from this game comes from fighting real people in well modeled planes doesn't change my view. I'm going to go out for lunch. I may check this thread again sometime. 

[ACG_TBird]

It's not my bag, but I have sympathy with the OP's point.

 

It strikes me that large squadrons should really be investing in their own servers for their squadron matches, rather than using public ones - if that's what's happening. I don't spend a lot of time on the public servers, so I don't get to see it.

 

But, that may well lead to many fewer players on the public servers?

Edited January 26, 2024 by ACG_TBird
add

[[CPT]Crunch]

To be fair most of the big squadron groups on those lopsided servers are not wasting their time looking for kills, they're engaged in ground attack.  I find them interesting and engaging tactical puzzles to solve.  For me the experience doesn't get any better to successfully engage one of these groups as a pair with my own wing, bag one of theirs and both of us successfully escape before they know it. 

 

You need to get a wing man and fly as a pair yourself, a two man pair that's any good and works coordinated is a high threat to any of the big squadrons.  Solo you ain't never doing nothing any way, and if your looking for a fair fight solo is the worst possible start, there is no such thing in air combat as fair, your certainly not doing it right if your attempting a fair fight.  Honorable is a whole other kettle, don't cheat.

[69th_Panp]

Gooid luck finding the Multiplayer server that bans squads, just not going to happen.

go fly in berloga, its a airquack server where you can fly 

[357th_KW]

Even if the server player count is equal, if you are flying solo and encounter a squad in a 4-ship, you are about to get wrecked - all you can do is recognize the situation and escape, or stalk them to try to bounce them from above and run - dogfighting 1 v 4 is hopeless.

 

Secondly, it might be worth trying some different servers if you aren't enjoying the experience.  Players in this game are far too focused on player count as the decider in what they play.  Be willing to give something new a chance, and be one of the first few logged on.  There's a lot of innovative stuff going on out there, that no one sees because the player count on the server at any given time is low or zero.

[CountZero]

its simple, just fly on berloga if you wont to practice your 1 v 1 skils, and thouse skills wont come handy mutch in other servers, as  in df servers without icons if your in DF longer then 1 min you messed up big time, exept if you plan to do some turnaments 

 

but just having 1 team mate is gona change things, try to pair up with someone, like Crunch said just pair of 2 is mutch more deadlyer then even bigger squads , as its not so easy to coordinate them in fight.

 

yes its problem for solo players the way todays MP is, but thats how its gona be no change gona hapend as there is not many new players coming in

 

you have to either stop playing like most new players in MP do when they get bored of this outnumbering situatiion when you search for fair df, find atleast 1 guy to play with you and practice fighting as pair, or just go on Berloga and keep asking for 1 v 1 , or join servers discort or what not and pair there, or just lissen whats going on.

 

there is simply not enought solo players like 10+ years ago in 1946 compared to veterans paired in either on squad or on voic channals

Edited January 27, 2024 by CountZero

[BOO]

Been along time since I last played GB and I come from the POV of enjoying being part of a squad. I cant judge how MP has gone in the pst few years but, the last time I tried it, as a SP, it did indeed suck although this seemed to be more down to AAA and AA defence being set up to counter larger co-orinated attacks and single players camping over targets in uber fighters than squads. 

 

My interest fell off as the later types emerged and the opportunity to fly earlier scenarios diminished resulntantly but thats neither here or there. As annoying as being hunted by 4 co-ordinated players can be, so is camping, suicidal flying and wasiting more capable airframes in the quest for a kill at all costs, both of which are the preserve of the lone wolf.Its  been this way since, as CountZero points out, the number of single players, who set them selves up to counter such activity, dimisnished. 

 

Each to their own but I would not lay the blame at the doors of squads, many of which  are also involved in putting up and paying for servers in the first place. Going back to 2016 when i started playing GB, a lot has changed in the game and the wider community itself. Not all those changes suit me and I guess no change will ever suit everyone. 

 

If I were to ever come back, I think id find a parter as thats all that really needed to thrive and survive. 

 

 

[354thFG_Leifr]

Fly with a friend(s), try a different server.

What server have you been flying on, out of interest? There are differences.

[BOO]

8 hours ago, 86th_Leifr said:

Fly with a friend(s), try a different server.

What server have you been flying on, out of interest? There are differences.

Friends is fer sissys ?

Edited January 27, 2024 by BOO