Pilot and G tolerance

[=475FG=Dobs]

After giving the game another chance over a 3 week period, I have to say the G modeling in the game is huge issue.

I won't go into the G difference between sides as that always sparks a debate, but I will say that the lack of pilot G tolerance pretty much negates some aircraft's prime attribute, aka the ability to develop an instantaneous turn.  And yes I'm aware of the effect of instantaneous G's on the human body...of an untrained pilot. 

It seems they tried to model pilot Fatigue, but ended up with the biggest wuss factor in the world for G tolerance.  Most people have around a 4 G resting tolerance....some upwards of 6.  A simple research of centrifuge examples will demonstrate this....    In the game, I hit 6 Gs and the world goes dim....I keep turning and I pass out..    Just Wow.... 
 

So then I think "they spent all this effort" to make a model for pilot G tolerance and they didn't even take in basic human physiology.  The fact that your body will start, on its own, countering the G effects almost immediately is not taken into account:

"The heart and cardiovascular system must respond quickly to G acceleration to keep blood flowing to the brain and maintain consciousness. Physiological response to +Gz causes the heart to beat harder and faster with an increased vascular tone to keep the blood flowing “northward” toward the head."  -Acceleration in Aviation:G-Force from the FAA ....first return in my search.

Then I see the Massive NEGATIVE G bunts on part of a bounced enemy, followed by rapid G onset of the positive type. 
Based on this, the body is reacting to stop the massive flow of blood to the brain, and then you reverse the G's and you have a "night night" situation.....But not in the game...

"While the effects of +Gz can be profound, the
human body is even less well equipped to
handle -Gz, which is described as a foot-tohead
force and is encountered when a pilot
pushes over into a dive or enters an outside
loop. Under -Gz, the blood is prevented from
flowing back down the jugular veins into
the heart, but the arterial blood flow to the
head is enhanced. Once again, the retina
of the eye is extremely sensitive, and the
visual effect is a loss of vision due to “Red
Out.” If the pilot does not back off the control
pressure, loss of consciousness will ensue in
short order because the blood does not flow
through the brain. To survive in an aviation
environment, pilots must respect the laws of
acceleration."  - Acceleration in Aviation:G-Force from the FAA

So essentially you are forced into a boom and zoom fight, because you can't sustain G's (due to pilot limitations).  

Toss in the Gloom and Doom lighting when under a cloud (doesn't matter if it is overcast or a lone cloud...the lack of light reminds me of SCUBA diving at 70'), the huge difference between flat screen users and VR users, and the disparity of game play makes the game pretty much "Unfun".  When I discovered the 1000 meter vertical targeting for the guns which meant the guns get canted up, I had to laugh.  AFAIK, the F-15C was the first A/A fighter with an upcant of its guns (2 degrees)...but evidently I'm wrong based on game modeling and slow pitch softball lobbings shells up and over.

So essentially its off to wait for DCS to fix the F-5, and or wait for the Phantom to come out...  I gave it a try for a few weeks, but for the reasons above just don't want to log on to play.

[357th_KW]

2 hours ago, =475FG=Dobs said:

After giving the game another chance over a 3 week period, I have to say the G modeling in the game is huge issue.

I won't go into the G difference between sides as that always sparks a debate, but I will say that the lack of pilot G tolerance pretty much negates some aircraft's prime attribute, aka the ability to develop an instantaneous turn.  And yes I'm aware of the effect of instantaneous G's on the human body...of an untrained pilot. 

It seems they tried to model pilot Fatigue, but ended up with the biggest wuss factor in the world for G tolerance.  Most people have around a 4 G resting tolerance....some upwards of 6.  A simple research of centrifuge examples will demonstrate this....    In the game, I hit 6 Gs and the world goes dim....I keep turning and I pass out..    Just Wow.... 
 

So then I think "they spent all this effort" to make a model for pilot G tolerance and they didn't even take in basic human physiology.  The fact that your body will start, on its own, countering the G effects almost immediately is not taken into account:

"The heart and cardiovascular system must respond quickly to G acceleration to keep blood flowing to the brain and maintain consciousness. Physiological response to +Gz causes the heart to beat harder and faster with an increased vascular tone to keep the blood flowing “northward” toward the head."  -Acceleration in Aviation:G-Force from the FAA ....first return in my search.

Then I see the Massive NEGATIVE G bunts on part of a bounced enemy, followed by rapid G onset of the positive type. 
Based on this, the body is reacting to stop the massive flow of blood to the brain, and then you reverse the G's and you have a "night night" situation.....But not in the game...

"While the effects of +Gz can be profound, the
human body is even less well equipped to
handle -Gz, which is described as a foot-tohead
force and is encountered when a pilot
pushes over into a dive or enters an outside
loop. Under -Gz, the blood is prevented from
flowing back down the jugular veins into
the heart, but the arterial blood flow to the
head is enhanced. Once again, the retina
of the eye is extremely sensitive, and the
visual effect is a loss of vision due to “Red
Out.” If the pilot does not back off the control
pressure, loss of consciousness will ensue in
short order because the blood does not flow
through the brain. To survive in an aviation
environment, pilots must respect the laws of
acceleration."  - Acceleration in Aviation:G-Force from the FAA

So essentially you are forced into a boom and zoom fight, because you can't sustain G's (due to pilot limitations).  

Toss in the Gloom and Doom lighting when under a cloud (doesn't matter if it is overcast or a lone cloud...the lack of light reminds me of SCUBA diving at 70'), the huge difference between flat screen users and VR users, and the disparity of game play makes the game pretty much "Unfun".  When I discovered the 1000 meter vertical targeting for the guns which meant the guns get canted up, I had to laugh.  AFAIK, the F-15C was the first A/A fighter with an upcant of its guns (2 degrees)...but evidently I'm wrong based on game modeling and slow pitch softball lobbings shells up and over.

So essentially its off to wait for DCS to fix the F-5, and or wait for the Phantom to come out...  I gave it a try for a few weeks, but for the reasons above just don't want to log on to play.

 

 

When the current G model was put together, this was a point of debate.  The "fatigued" sustained G limit was originally about 2.5 and now after lots of complaints it was raised to about 3.5.  But it's still way too low - the data that was shared on this forum when the new G model was being put together was showing 5Gs was a good average, but sadly we didn't get it.  It has a huge impact in game - even with a gentle onset to 5 G's your pilot is basically crippled within a minute.  One of the strangest side effects of this is that the P-51D with the G-suit is the king of low speed turnfights, as the pilot can use all the available performance where everyone else is passing out after 45 seconds. 

 

The good news is, you can choose the difficulty option "simplified physiology" and get a sustained G limit of 5 G's.  It doesn't have all the same features of the "advanced" model, but getting the basic limit right makes a huge difference IMO - turn fighters can actually use their maneuverability, and every fight doesn't get forced into a sad 3G scissors on the edge of blackout.