Waco Ai landing and Drag-Chute activation: how?

[jollyjack]

About to comply to Blitzen's post with a (special delivery WACO mission) request (set as player).

 

 

----------------------

 

Got finally a Land-zone working via trial and error (thank you Jaegermeister for all your Waco-ing INFO sofar), but the required landing place is quite small, them wacoos overshoot it.

Now how do you activate the chute (it's loaded alright and lands at the right spot). This for the player and the wingmen. via some Complex trigger? It won't show without player interference, and not on autopilot for the player.

 

Edited January 8, 2024 by jollyjack

[Ulricus]

The commands are

 

RAlt+B - Drogue parachute Release (below 140 mph)

LAlt+D - Drogue parachute Jetison (after landing) 

 

and my wingmen also use it automatically when they are equipped with the "Breaking parachute" *).

 

*) BTW regarding "Breaking parachute". I found in the net the following: ... "Drogue parachute" is the proper term. “Drag chute” is a slang term that came from the result of a drogue parachute’s creation of “drag” which is why they just called it a drag parachute - it’s a parachute that creates drag. 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Ulricus

[jollyjack]

Ah, thnx, must be air-speed then .... set to high now. Any idea how far before the landing command a wp speed should be 140mph?

[Ulricus]

3 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Any idea how far before the landing command a wp speed should be 140mph?

Have done only WPs for the towing C47s so far. In my test missions they relase the gliders without any further Waco WPs. So I'm very interested in your findings to manage the after release flight of the Wacos.  

[jollyjack]

will let you know ... but air speed at the last waypoint before land command was 200 km, below 140 mph, so ...

Edited January 9, 2024 by jollyjack

[jollyjack]

I used Jagermeisters FC high target linked from a waypoint and object linked to the waco only, with drop ordonance marker on,

and then set new separate waypoints for the wacoos towards their own landing commands. saw a chute popping out now. airspeed 180 kmh.

Formation does not seem to work IMO with them wacoos, but have not tried it. They seem to land some 20 meters behind the land command MCU.

Edited January 8, 2024 by jollyjack
spelling

[Ulricus]

Thx for this info. I will use your procedure in my test missions. 

Edited January 8, 2024 by Ulricus

[jollyjack]

I give up for now, cannot find how to release the drag chute on Land for Ai Wacoos, and one on autopilot. tried speeds, land command set to low, medium or high, NADA.

 

ADDED:

The drop chute works IMO only at the Land MCU after passing it.

Also as WACO player on runway take off you should tick vulnerable in advanced properties, other ways it stays put.

Edited January 9, 2024 by jollyjack

[Ulricus]

I did some CG-4A drag parachute tests (player/autopilot and 2 wingmen):
     Release at 3200ft - 114mph*
     Dive to 1600ft - 144mph
     Continued flight at 650ft - 113mph
     Landing glide 50-3ft - 106mph
     Automatic release at 3ft and 66mph
     Chute automatically disappears at 3ft - 16mph
     *) approximate speed, but could be reproduced well in several tests for all CG-4as.

 

On 1/8/2024 at 8:36 PM, jollyjack said:

The drop chute works IMO only at the Land MCU after passing it.

After my tests, I can confirm your opinion here. Manually by the player at any time, but the AI wingmen chute release seems to be connected with the Land MCU.

 

Added 15.01.2024:

Regarding "seems to be connected with the Land MCU"  I found in further tests that that a CG-4A Landing MCU is not necessary for the automatic chute release. My CG-4As released their chutes also when no Landing MCU was set. It seems that only the height (3ft = 1m) and/or the speed (66mph) triggers the automatic release.  

Edited January 15, 2024 by Ulricus
New findings re. automatic chute release

[pappy2]

Hello everyone,
I take advantage of your post to ask a question:
How do you get the C47 AI to drop its Waco AI when arriving on the LZ?
I'm very new to the mission creator, I don't know all the commands.

thanks in advance

[Jaegermeister]

3 hours ago, pappy2 said:

I take advantage of your post to ask a question:
How do you get the C47 AI to drop its Waco AI when arriving on the LZ?

 

Trigger a Command Force Complete object linked to the towing C-47 with "High" selected and "Emergency Ordnance Drop" checked in the advanced properties dialogue box where you want the drop to take place.

[pappy2]

21 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Trigger a Command Force Complete object linked to the towing C-47 with "High" selected and "Emergency Ordnance Drop" checked in the advanced properties dialogue box where you want the drop to take place.

Thanks for the response "Jaegermeister"
I'm going to test it as soon as I get home from work.

[Jaegermeister]

4 hours ago, pappy2 said:

Thanks for the response "Jaegermeister"
I'm going to test it as soon as I get home from work.

 

You're welcome...

It works. 

[pappy2]

It just doesn't work.
I have to put at least 6 containers under the C47 which is towing the glider, and when it lets go of the last one the Waco comes off.

TO MODIFY:

I explained myself badly:

It works very well but in my case I have to put containers with my C47 otherwise the AI runs in circles without letting go of the Waco.

The good thing is that this prevents the glider pilot from encountering the parachutes.
I don't know if during D-Day or other operations the C47s which had gliders also dropped containers?

 

Edited January 16, 2024 by pappy2

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, pappy2 said:

I don't know if during D-Day or other operations the C47s which had gliders also dropped containers?

 

If they were towing gliders, then they weren't carrying anything internally like supply containers. 

[Jaegermeister]

14 hours ago, pappy2 said:

It just doesn't work.
I have to put at least 6 containers under the C47 which is towing the glider, and when it lets go of the last one the Waco comes off.

TO MODIFY:

I explained myself badly:

It works very well but in my case I have to put containers with my C47 otherwise the AI runs in circles without letting go of the Waco.

 

You have something else going on with your commands. I have run that logic in simple tests many times and had no trouble with an empty C-47 cutting the Waco loose. If you want to post your mission, someone will probably be able to look at it and see what the issue is.

[[DBS]Tx_Tip]

With FC cmd. That’s gonna be a lot of “Return to Mission” holler’n going on.

Why design it like that? Attack Area “Ground” for AI formations and Single AI release is ready made.

Granted they’ll holler about dropping as well but only the leader with a formation.

 

Btw. What’s the single player release cmd? Default as Drop Ordinance?

 

[pappy2]

So I still don't know how to include a link to post a mission on the forum.
I am therefore attaching a screenshot of my simple mission.
The C47 and Waco are in AI, the Player plane is hidden.

the C47 switches to “Command Force Complete” without dropping the glider.

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

10 hours ago, [DBS]Tx_Tip said:

With FC cmd. That’s gonna be a lot of “Return to Mission” holler’n going on.

Why design it like that? Attack Area “Ground” for AI formations and Single AI release is ready made.

Granted they’ll holler about dropping as well but only the leader with a formation.

 

Btw. What’s the single player release cmd? Default as Drop Ordinance?

 

 

I agree completely. I have politely and clearly asked that the "rejoin Formation and Continue with the Mission" radio command be removed. It is frequently inappropriate for the circumstance and gets annoying.

 

The command for glider release is "Jettison" and there was never any instruction. I just figured out a way to do it on my own.

 

1 hour ago, pappy2 said:

So I still don't know how to include a link to post a mission on the forum.
I am therefore attaching a screenshot of my simple mission.
The C47 and Waco are in AI, the Player plane is hidden.

the C47 switches to “Command Force Complete” without dropping the glider.

 

 

Spoiler

 

To post a mission, you would put the xxx.mis, xxx.msnbin, and in this particular forum, the xxx.eng files in a folder with the mission name. Create a .zip file from that and drag it into your post. That's all there is to it.

 

There are too many things that can't be seen in your screenshot to really know what the problem is, but it looks like all the waypoints and commands are object linked to the player in the Waco and the Waco glider is targeting the C-47. All of those commands need to be applied to the tow plane, not the player in the glider.

 

If the waypoints and commands are object linked to the C-47 and the Waco is targeting the tow plane, that's a problem also as it should be placed behind the tow plane, but not linked to it in any way.
 

Edited January 18, 2024 by Jaegermeister
typos

[Zooropa_Fly]

As a side note, it's a good idea to re-name some of the labels - timers in particular.

For example, I would use 300ms / 3s / 3. The last one there being 3 minutes.

And you can add 'IN', 'OUT TO.. or whatever helps describe it's role.

 

Sometimes it helps to number waypoints - wp1 / wp2 etc.

And things like 'Command Force Complete' I change to simply 'Complete'.

 

 Mission logic can get messy to view after a while, so simplifying the label names makes it less cluttered.

And if you've named timers, it makes it easier to de-bug stuff, for you or anyone else.

 

S!

[pappy2]

Thanks for your help guys.
I'm new to mission creations and trying to understand how all the controls work.
I took your comments into account, but the AI C47 does not drop the AI Waco.
I am attaching the file of my mission, if anyone can understand the problem..

 

Edit 19/01/2024:
Zip overloaded problem resolved, see below Zip V5 Final

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2024 by pappy2

[Jaegermeister]

@pappy2, Question... What's wrong with this picture?

 

 

Answer:

 

Spoiler

 

The link from your waypoint to the Timer is backwards. You don't actually need that timer anyway. The Waypoint is a trigger. 

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2024 by Jaegermeister

[pappy2]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

@pappy2, Question... What's wrong with this picture?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The link from your waypoint to the Timer is backwards. You don't actually need that timer anyway. The Waypoint is a trigger. 

 

 

Thank you for your valuable help
I test and try

 

[pappy2]

Here is my test No. 3: THE GLIDER DROP WORKS
- 4 C47s with 4 Wacos in training, the Wacos are well off in Wpt 2.
But... new problem: after releasing the gliders the C47s turn right!!!
They don't follow the Wpt on the left to leave, I don't understand why.

 

Edit 19/01/2024:
Zip overloaded problem resolved, see below Zip V5 Final

 

Edited January 20, 2024 by pappy2

[JG4_Deciman]

Just a guess without testing.

 

The 'Force Complete' also disables the given waypoints.

Try to add a short timer after the 'Force Complete' triggering the next waypoint.

And if they are no longer in formation that had also been disabled by the FC...

 

Deci

[pappy2]

Hello and thank you again for your help;
But unfortunately, after dropping the gliders, I can't get the C47s to fly to the Wpts.
I am attaching my mission if anyone can help me
thanks in advance

 

Edit 19/01/2024:
Zip overloaded problem resolved, see below Zip V5 Final

 

Edited January 20, 2024 by pappy2

[jollyjack]

You forgot to objectlink wp 3 and 4 to the C47s. Also you cannot link waco flights together in a grouped config IMO.

Also you did not set wp speeds above 100 kph, and 180 m hight might be too low?

 

Messing with it, some errors still:  Test Waco v5.zip

 

Edited January 19, 2024 by jollyjack

[pappy2]

jollyjack@
thank you for your help, I corrected the Wpt links and the speeds of each Wpt with 230Km/h.

I chose the altitude of 600 feet because historically this is approximately the altitude at which pilots dropped D-Day.
I don't understand your remark:
Also you cannot link waco flights together in a grouped config IMO.
Can you explain to me, sorry, I don't master the mission creator correctly.

The 4 C47s and the 4 Wacos fly well in formation and the 4 gliders are released at the same time above Wpt 1, then the 4 Wacos continue straight ahead and end up landing.
But the C47s turn right without following the direction of the following Wpts, they circle around above Wpt 1.

 

Why don't they want to follow the Wpt ?

Edited January 19, 2024 by pappy2

[pappy2]

EUREKA
I found my final answer here:

 

So everything works:
- Four C47s with Four Wacos in formation
- Release the gliders all at once
- Landing of the Four Wacos
- The Four C47s follow the Wpts and turn left towards the sea....

I post my mission here, and I delete from my posts above what does not work.
A big thank you to all of you for your help and your answers and Bon Vols.

 

Test Waco V5 Final.zip

Edited January 20, 2024 by pappy2

[jollyjack]

Did you post a wrong file for v5 final? Waco 4 still looses track, and the c47s fly on straight ... seems the same as your v4 in the ME?

 

Here's a further experiment, renamed a bit regarding confusions: Test Waco v6-JJ.zip

 

It seems the player C47, (plane 4 in your setup, or now one in "my" v6) always looses it's waco at game start, maybe a bug?

Edited January 20, 2024 by jollyjack

[pappy2]

Hello "jollyjack"
So I have a little tip: I always start the mission with “PAUSE” mode, then from the cockpit of the C47 I remove the pause and immediately put the autopilot on.
The C47 and Waco hang together well, swing together and fall into formation.
From there I remove the autopilot and very slowly without sudden movements pilot the C47.

I use the same method if I want to drive the Waco.

Concerning the flight of the C47s, I chose to make them continue straight for a short while after releasing the gliders, they turn left at the next Wpt.

I put a new Zip "Test V5 Final" in my previous post.
This evening I'm testing your "Waco V6" Zip file

thanks again

[pappy2]

2 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Did you post a wrong file for v5 final? Waco 4 still looses track, and the c47s fly on straight ... seems the same as your v4 in the ME?

 

Here's a further experiment, renamed a bit regarding confusions: Test Waco v6-JJ.zip

 

It seems the player C47, (plane 4 in your setup, or now one in "my" v6) always looses it's waco at game start, maybe a bug?

 

So I quickly tested your "Waco 6" mission.
First remark, you absolutely must set the flight of the C47s to “Echeclon right”. Glider drop flights are obligatory (like D-Day) in flight from Four echelons to the right.

 

 

http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/page.php?page=s28

 

The paratrooper drop flights were necessarily in a “V” shape.

 

 

http://www.6juin1944.com/assaut/aeropus/page.php?page=s17

The glider stall problem comes from there.

 

Another remark, you decided not to put the C47s in formation flight linked together.

In this case, the four C47s must not be connected to the same Wpt. If they are separate flights, they must each have their Wpt throughout their flight, otherwise they will start flying one behind the other.

 

Tonight I continue to watch your mission

 

Edited January 20, 2024 by pappy2

[jollyjack]

You're right a bout separating waypoints, jaegermeister mentioned that.

Please forget v6, here's an update, almost right? Test Waco v7- JJ.zip

Edited January 20, 2024 by jollyjack

[pappy2]

8 hours ago, jollyjack said:

You're right a bout separating waypoints, jaegermeister mentioned that.

Please forget v6, here's an update, almost right? Test Waco v7- JJ.zip

 

So I noticed an error, maybe that's why the C47 "IA2" picks up the Waco at the start of the mission.
Your "Waco A2 Wpt 1" points (green arrow) to the "A-C47 A2" and conversely the "A2 Wpt 2" points (green arrow) to the "A Waco A2".
It is necessary that:
"Waco A2 Wpt 1" points to "A Waco A2"
and that "A2 Wpt 2" points to "A-C47 A2"
and hand out the “Timmer” for everyone

Test Waco v7- JJ - Modif V2 Pp2.zip

Edited January 20, 2024 by pappy2

[jollyjack]

Yeah, i noticed something already. Also found that alignment of a waco behind is also very important, not only distance. That is also with runway take off.

Trimmer? What do you mean?

[pappy2]

The “timmer” for all C47 Wpts
Sorry for my bad English I use "Goo...translat"

 

Have you tried the Zip that I posted above?
It is even possible by adding Wpts after their release, to make the Gliders turn left or right and land them in the fields...

Edited January 21, 2024 by pappy2

[jollyjack]

Yep, but i already had that fixed. With my setup i have them landing at an airfield.

Just tried a landing chart, but of course that did not work.

Also tried to get the C47s to get in a formation at the after the waco release, but could not get that right yet. 

Besides how do you get the wacos exact landing spot stop location, and to open the front hatch. So you can spawn a (new) jeep, or infantry.

 

[pappy2]

For the training of the C47, as you have chosen independent flight you must continue the Wpt for each C47 otherwise it is not possible because they are not linked together.

To have the exact stopping point of the Waco it seems difficult to find because it must depend on the altitude of release, the speed of release and the hardness of the terrain.
I'm experimenting and moving the landing point icon.
I also noticed that on the landing icon there is a yellow line, you have to orient it, this gives the direction for the glider to land.

I don't think the AI opens the glider's nose on its own.
The jeep and paratroopers also don't come out with the AI.

[jollyjack]

Nope, but you can spawn them at the landing point once you know where it is, did that before:

Infantry spawn from a landing craft v1a.zip

3 jeeps spawn from a landing craft v2.zip

Edited January 21, 2024 by jollyjack

[pappy2]

Great idea !!
I had to move the Jeeps a little towards the beach because they fell into the water...
Is it possible with Sherman tanks and Half Tarcks?

So your idea is to land the Wacos and then at the stopping point to land the GI'S or a Jeep in front of the glider's nose?