Discussion of TF 6.5 Aircraft Preview

[ACG_Bussard]

Are there any plans for a rework of the existing GUI yet?

[DD_Arthur]

13 hours ago, Bussard* said:

Are there any plans for a rework of the existing GUI yet?

Why do people even bother asking this anymore?

It’s simply never going to happen.

Buzzsaw knows why; such is the nature of how the GUI is embedded in the core game, to replace it would effectively mean replacing the game engine.

 

That might not be a bad thing but it’s way beyond the scope of what TFS are capable of.

[Buzzsaw]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

Why do people even bother asking this anymore?

It’s simply never going to happen.

Buzzsaw knows why; such is the nature of how the GUI is embedded in the core game, to replace it would effectively mean replacing the game engine.

 

That might not be a bad thing but it’s way beyond the scope of what TFS are capable of.

Actually we are looking at what is required to do comprehensive re-write of the code for the GUI right now.

 

Whether such an update is part of TF 6.0 is unclear at this point.

[ACG_Bussard]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

Why do people even bother asking this anymore?

It’s simply never going to happen.

Buzzsaw knows why; such is the nature of how the GUI is embedded in the core game, to replace it would effectively mean replacing the game engine.

 

That might not be a bad thing but it’s way beyond the scope of what TFS are capable of.

Well, I'd say Buzzsaw's answer was on the mark. Thank you Buzzsaw!

[Dagwoodyt]

crystal clear

[FurphyForum]

Yep, As close as #$%^ is to swearing. Thx Buzz. 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

I do not find the GUI especially hard to use, but good to see TFS is looking into it. 

[Dagwoodyt]

Well, fortunately, TFS is only

On 1/18/2024 at 2:57 PM, Buzzsaw said:

looking at what is required to do comprehensive re-write of the code for the GUI right now.

should any such unspecified modification(s) ever be deemed warranted. ?

[Volant_Eagle]

I understand the Lancaster is the only new airframe for this DLC and the rest are only new variants, but does ‘new variant’ include any currently non-flyables being made flyable?

 

[Buzzsaw]

On 2/2/2024 at 8:24 AM, Volant_Eagle said:

I understand the Lancaster is the only new airframe for this DLC and the rest are only new variants, but does ‘new variant’ include any currently non-flyables being made flyable?

 

Not at this point.  We had considered making a non-flyable AI nightfighter version of the Dornier 215, but does not seem likely at this point.

[deathmisser]

On 2/3/2024 at 7:40 PM, Buzzsaw said:

Not at this point.  We had considered making a non-flyable AI nightfighter version of the Dornier 215, but does not seem likely at this point.

I know I'm late to the party but can we see a menu rework via any DLCs? 

 

As I really want to get into Clod but the menu just turns me away

[Volant_Eagle]

14 hours ago, deathmisser said:

I know I'm late to the party but can we see a menu rework via any DLCs? 

 

As I really want to get into Clod but the menu just turns me away

Not sure how much effort you’ve put into figuring out the UI so far, but if you spend enough time with it it is actually usable. I was very lost, confused, and frustrated with it for the first couple months. But now that I’ve grown accustomed to it I can usually do whatever I want without thinking about it. Since getting past that roadblock I’ve put nearly 400 hours on CloD this year and hardly touched DCS or Great Battles.

 

If you’re willing to push through the buggy and un-intuitive UI, the underlying sim is still a gem. If not, I’m sure there will be a UI update with either the VU or 6.0. Not sure how good it will be, but anything would be better than what we have now.

 

Personally I think the general layout and flow of the menus are fine. It’s just that certain features are broken and a lot of things are poorly labeled. A quick mission builder like 1946 or a quick combat like CFS would also be greatly appreciated. It’s also a bit of a downer that there’s no in-game record of stats anywhere.

 

Layout-wise every sim does things differently so there’s always some learning curve even if it isn’t broken. A lot of people really like the UI in DCS but I’m new to it and come from other sims. That UI isn’t broken but it still drives me absolutely bonkers. That’s just me being used to something else though. I grew up with the Microsoft Combat sims and that type of layout was more or less imprinted on me. The UI of every other sim since those (combat or not) has been a let down for me because of that primacy.

[Dagwoodyt]

16 hours ago, deathmisser said:

I know I'm late to the party but can we see a menu rework via any DLCs? 

 

As I really want to get into Clod but the menu just turns me away

Given issues apparently related to the game engine that have resulted in repeated delays in fielding features long promised, how likely is it that there wouldn't be similar delays even assuming a desire to do a UI overhaul?

Edited March 25, 2024 by Dagwoodyt

[Mysticpuma]

3 hours ago, Volant_Eagle said:

Not sure how much effort you’ve put into figuring out the UI so far, but if you spend enough time with it it is actually usable. I was very lost, confused, and frustrated with it for the first couple months. But now that I’ve grown accustomed to it I can usually do whatever I want without thinking about it. Since getting past that roadblock I’ve put nearly 400 hours on CloD this year and hardly touched DCS or Great Battles.

 

If you’re willing to push through the buggy and un-intuitive UI, the underlying sim is still a gem. If not, I’m sure there will be a UI update with either the VU or 6.0. Not sure how good it will be, but anything would be better than what we have now.

 

Personally I think the general layout and flow of the menus are fine. It’s just that certain features are broken and a lot of things are poorly labeled. A quick mission builder like 1946 or a quick combat like CFS would also be greatly appreciated. It’s also a bit of a downer that there’s no in-game record of stats anywhere.

 

Layout-wise every sim does things differently so there’s always some learning curve even if it isn’t broken. A lot of people really like the UI in DCS but I’m new to it and come from other sims. That UI isn’t broken but it still drives me absolutely bonkers. That’s just me being used to something else though. I grew up with the Microsoft Combat sims and that type of layout was more or less imprinted on me. The UI of every other sim since those (combat or not) has been a let down for me because of that primacy.

 

There is already a dedicated thread regarding the UI ?

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

The UI is old but I don't have problems finding what I need. I don't know how that particular UI can prevent from enjoying the gameplay...

 

 

Edited March 27, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

The UI is old but I don't have problems finding what I need. I don't know how that particular UI can prevent from enjoying the gameplay...

 

 

The only folks actively playing Blitz likely have the same attitude. If any attempt were made to do an overhaul of the existing UI that group would likely have a negative reaction. If the "overhauled" UI were full of compromises due to the fact that TFS is not the game's UI designer, the group wanting redesign would complain that the redesign is worse than before. So a UI redesign is never going to be attempted. Why would a UI overhaul be worth further discussion before TF5.0 has been successfully "landed"?

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

16 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The only folks actively playing Blitz likely have the same attitude. If any attempt were made to do an overhaul of the existing UI that group would likely have a negative reaction. If the "overhauled" UI were full of compromises due to the fact that TFS is not the game's UI designer, the group wanting redesign would complain that the redesign is worse than before. So a UI redesign is never going to be attempted. Why would a UI overhaul be worth further discussion before TF5.0 has been successfully "landed"?

 

 

 

1PL-Husar-1Esk stated: 

 

"The UI is old but I don't have problems finding what I need. I don't know how that particular UI can prevent from enjoying the gameplay..."

 

So there's no connection between his statement and the response you gave him. Is there any?

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

18 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

The only folks actively playing Blitz likely have the same attitude. If any attempt were made to do an overhaul of the existing UI that group would likely have a negative reaction. If the "overhauled" UI were full of compromises due to the fact that TFS is not the game's UI designer, the group wanting redesign would complain that the redesign is worse than before. So a UI redesign is never going to be attempted. Why would a UI overhaul be worth further discussion before TF5.0 has been successfully "landed"?

 

I don't think so , that group is saying that  old UI is ok to use, nobody can predict reaction of none existing change. Sure there are more things to bring before that change would be considered important to do.

2 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

1PL-Husar-1Esk stated: 

 

"The UI is old but I don't have problems finding what I need. I don't know how that particular UI can prevent from enjoying the gameplay..."

 

So there's no connection between his statement and the response you gave him. Is there any?

 

 

You are right, I also don't see connection...

[Dagwoodyt]

7 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I don't have problems finding what I need.

Good to know!

[Mysticpuma]

Revisiting this topic. 

Are they guys working on the Lancaster involved in making any of the other content?

I asked because of the following:

 

If they aren't creating any other content and are solely working on this, could the Lancaster be released before the V6.0 content instead, or will this be held in reserve until V6.0 drops sometime in the distant future?

[AWC]

44 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

Revisiting this topic. 

Are they guys working on the Lancaster involved in making any of the other content?

I asked because of the following:

 

If they aren't creating any other content and are solely working on this, could the Lancaster be released before the V6.0 content instead, or will this be held in reserve until V6.0 drops sometime in the distant future?

 

What is most likely going to happen is this. The Lanc will be finished before the new Europe map and so will be imported and flyable. The map would come later. After the Lancaster team has finished their work on this aircraft, depending on their interest/contracts they could do further aircraft for us.

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, Soto_Cinematics said:

 

What is most likely going to happen is this. The Lanc will be finished before the new Europe map and so will be imported and flyable. The map would come later. After the Lancaster team has finished their work on this aircraft, depending on their interest/contracts they could do further aircraft for us.

So the Lanc could be a paid for add-on before v6.0?

[AWC]

2 hours ago, Mysticpuma said:

So the Lanc could be a paid for add-on before v6.0?

 

I have no information on this from team discussions. The Lancaster is supposed to be for TF 6.5 so I don't know if this would be allowed in our contract. At the very least though, I think it would eventually be added to the Beta version so it would be available for selected players.

[Mysticpuma]

Beta for V6?

[AWC]

On 1/14/2025 at 4:33 PM, Mysticpuma said:

Beta for V6?

 

Yeah

 

FROM BUZZSAW:

 

Hi

 

No, the Lancaster is not planned to be added for the VR Beta.

 

It will be a part of a beta for TF 6.5.

[II./JG27_Rich]

On 1/5/2024 at 5:46 PM, Buzzsaw said:

Hello All

 

My apologies for the delay in responding... it has been a busy time with post holiday catch up etc.

 

---

 

In response to the various questions:

 

-  In the future TF plans on introducing a new map which will include areas attacked by the RAF night bombing campaign in 1942-early 1944... in addition the map will work for many of the areas targeted by the 8th Air Force from March 1943/ to early 1944.  Yes, this map would include the area of the Roer river dams attacked by the 'Dambusters'.  This will be a larger map than we have previously released... likely to be 800 km X 800 km.  It will cover Belgium/Holland/parts of France and the coast of northern Germany up to Hamburg.  It also would work for a 'Blitzkrieg' 1940 scenario, as well as a 'Battle of the Ardennes' 1944, 'Market Garden' 1944, etc. if TF chooses to go there.  This map will be a major undertaking and for those who would like to see it released as soon as possible, and who have the skills to advance development, we would encourage them to approach TF about joining and contributing.  We will release more details about this map when we have something to show.

 

-  The RAF did use the Wellington and Lancaster to bomb targets in France at night, for example, Amiens, Boulogne, Rouen, Le Havre, etc, so the existing Channel and to be released Dieppe maps will work for some scenarios.  Plus of course, we expect the players to use the aircraft for imaginary scenarios in the same way as DCS aircraft are used on their maps.

 

-  We are not planning on introducing any additional new RAF bombers or twin engined types for the TF 6.5 DLC other than the Lancaster.  In the future, (likely when the expanded map is released) we may look at adding the Hampden or Whitley, depending on which is easier to model... these, along with the Wellington, were the most commonly used night bombers prior to the Lancaster.  Guy Gibson flew a Hampden for one of his tours.  We will definitely introduce new Lancaster variants, including B.III Dam Buster types and likely Lancaster B.II in later releases after TF 6.5.  We also may introduce another RAF 4 engined type at that same time.  We expect to release other Allied twin engined bomber/attack/NF types in the upcoming TF 7.0, 8.0 etc. DLC's.  The Beaufighter VI is already planned for TF 6.0... although only in dayfighter/attack form... but you can guess as an existing aircraft it will likely be available in NF form for TF 6.5.  ?  Same applies to the Ju-88C-6, also planned for TF 6.0.

 

-  The TF 6.5 DLC will also focus on the German night bombing campaign from late 1940 to 1942... so players will have the opportunity to fly the existing German bombers in that role.  In addition, the existing British and German nightfighters will be usable in a defensive, or offensive 'night intruder' role.  For example, the Ju-88C-1/C-2 were used as night intruders over British bomber airfields early in this period.  (without airborne radar)

 

-  British airborne radar systems were used from the fall of 1940, so during the period of the Blitz and attacks on other cities.  The German Lichtenstein system was operational in a test basis from August of 1941, and by 1942, used fairly regularly.  These systems will be present in nightfighters available in TF 6.5 based on appropriate dates.

 

-  Regarding the number of aircraft in TF 6.5:  There will be one new aircraft type, (Lancaster) and multiple new aircraft variants.

 

-  Regarding flyable crew positions on the Lancaster... similar to what we have now on Wellington, with the addition of the aircraft engineer.  Players can jump to positions other than the pilot.  In multiplayer, multiple players can occupy the aircraft.

 

-  We plan on introducing new AI routines for the night environment.

 

EDIT CORRECTION:

 

Map will not include Augsberg.

This is my 2nd favorite arena right behind North Africa. Can't wait

On 1/8/2024 at 4:36 PM, Blitzen said:

Wasn't its nickname something like the "Flying frying pan"?

Maybe the British Dornier? 

[major_setback]

43 minutes ago, II./JG27_Rich said:

This is my 2nd favorite arena right behind North Africa. Can't wait

Maybe the British Dornier? 

Edited January 15 by major_setback
can't edit. removed

[Volant_Eagle]

5 hours ago, II./JG27_Rich said:

Maybe the British Dornier?

It was called "the flying suitcase", though it likely had other nicknames as well.

 

It certainly does resemble a Dornier from some angles. Capability wise it would also be a good counterpart to the Dornier for the red side.

 

Red only having one medium bomber and blue having 4 seems a little lopsided right now. (Blenheim doesn't count, that's a light bomber).

 

Eventually red will have 2 or more heavy bombers, and blue none, but at least that lopsidedness is historically accurate.

 

Prior to TFS announcing they were working on any heavies, I would have said there are still significant gaps remaining in the current planesets for the current maps/timeperiods, so filling those in should be a higher priority than moving on to yet another timeperiod/theater.

 

However, that was assuming heavies were too big of a project for TFS to be considering. Since they are actually on the table, I think TFS made the right call with going for heavies like the B-17 and Lancaster as the next additions. I can't think of any other bombers they could add that would create more interest in this sim than those two.

 

Once we get them though, I do hope TFS does go back and fills in some of the planes we're missing from 1940-1941. There are plenty we don't have that were quite common during that period.

 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

On 1/14/2025 at 7:38 PM, Soto_Cinematics said:

What is most likely going to happen is this. The Lanc will be finished before the new Europe map and so will be imported and flyable. The map would come later. After the Lancaster team has finished their work on this aircraft, depending on their interest/contracts they could do further aircraft for us.

 

 

Which quite corresponds to the order of releases already announced by Buzzsaw:

 

TF6.0

TF6.5 (Lancaster at least available, not before)

TF7.0

TF8.0

TF9.0 (new Europe map available, not before)

 

Regarding the Lancaster, Buzzsaw stated "This aircraft will be the centerpiece of the TF 6.5 DLC". Please check the source...  over there.

 

 

 

On 1/14/2025 at 8:49 PM, Mysticpuma said:

So the Lanc could be a paid for add-on before v6.0?

 

 

No... as per the above.

 

Am I wrong you TFS guys ?

 

But Mysticpuma asked for an exception being made to what it is planned at this stage, I know. Personnally, I'd prefer the devs focus on fixing problems affecting the overall simulation rather than focusing on one flyable, even if it is the so eagerly expected Lancaster, which I'm lusting after (really).

 

 

Edited January 15 by 343KKT_Kintaro
stateted --> stated

[FTC_Rostic]

38 minutes ago, Volant_Eagle said:

I can't think of any other bombers they could add that would create more interest in this sim than those two.

To name a few for just existing maps and time frames: A20B, Beaufort (torpedo).

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Just now, FTC_Rostic said:

To name a few for just existing maps and time frames: A20B, Beaufort (torpedo).

 

 

Nope! Still Volant_Eagle is right! When I was in my teens, which is the only period in my life when I spent time mounting and painting hobby kit scale models, the only four-engine aircraft I've mounted were the B-17 and the Lancaster.

 

 

[Volant_Eagle]

On 1/15/2025 at 5:26 PM, FTC_Rostic said:

To name a few for just existing maps and time frames: A20B, Beaufort (torpedo).

I think you meant to quote this section from my post:

On 1/15/2025 at 4:41 PM, Volant_Eagle said:

Once we get them though, I do hope TFS does go back and fills in some of the planes we're missing from 1940-1941. There are plenty we don't have that were quite common during that period.

Right? I'm pretty sure the Lancaster and B-17 are more well known in general than the A-20 or the Beaufort.

 

The Beaufort and Boston are definitely on my list of planes to add as well. The Whitley and Hampden are probably highest on my list since they were just as prevalent as the Wellington during that timeframe. The Hudson was well used by coastal command out of England and the Maryland was common in the Mediterranean. Flyable Mk I Blenheims, Do 17s, and He 115s would be nice too. Fairy Battle is important but only for pre Battle of Britain timeframe in the channel, or down in Africa during the BoB.

 

I could still go on and on and I haven't even mentioned any Italian or French planes yet (though Boston and Maryland were used by the French as the DB-7 and 167F, both of those would be great too).

 

This is getting way ahead of things since we're still waiting for 6.0, and they have things somewhat planned out up to 9.0 already. It's fun to dream though.

 

Super looking forward to flying both the Lancaster and B-17 though (and shooting at them). I was kind of dumbstruck when both those announcements came out. Hopefully I don't have to wait too much longer.

 

[Buzzsaw]

On 1/15/2025 at 4:56 AM, Soto_Cinematics said:

 

Yeah

Hi

 

No, the Lancaster is not planned to be added for the VR Beta.

 

It will be a part of a beta for TF 6.5.

[BladeMeister]

On 1/15/2025 at 6:05 PM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

TF6.5 (Lancaster at least available, not before)

TF7.0

TF8.0

TF9.0 (new Europe map available, not before)

Why is TF even talking about plans beyond the visual update and possibly 6.0? Hell it's been 4 years and nothing? Time for a reality check? Come back to earth, release some much asked for bugg squashing and then carry on with your infinite VU & 6.0 work. Hell I'm turning 61 in 2 weeks, tik tok, tik tok.

 

S!Blade<><

[BOO]

10 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

Hi

 

No, the Lancaster is not planned to be added for the VR Beta.

 

It will be a part of a beta for TF 6.5.

 

Why did you feel the need to repeat EXACTLY what Soto already said you said and quote the quote that said exactly what you said before cutting and pasting its content into your section to say exactly what Soto said you said? 

 

Your favourite mantra is that TFS doesnt have the time for this, that or the other yet here you are pointlessly doing pointless admin for pointless reasons. 

[Buffo002]

It's been said here several times, the original game was on an old engine in 2D. Then a few years ago (4-5 years??) people were shouting here that the simulator should be VR. And that's when it started, that it's being dragged out and 3D, VR, 4K, True sky and lots of new effects are being addressed. So the whole time, coding was being addressed, so that everything would match everything without error... And if before that only a 2D version was expected, that's why plans for other addons were already made in advance, but unfortunately, if the whole game is not completely rebuilt on a new engine, there will be no new DLC. Just read old comments in various discussions.

Edited January 28 by Buffo002

[BladeMeister]

As you repeat yourself once again, so I will join suite. It has been 4 years and nothing. 5 to 10 of the biggest game breaker bugs could have been fix easily in the present version of CLOD in that time frame. Remember, the one that each customer has already paid for, and could be enjoying even more right now while patiently waiting for the coming of the Holly Grail Version so to speak. To each their own, I could give a rats ass about VR or Visual upgrade, just fix the most glaring few issues that hobble the present gameplay in CLOD right now while we are waiting. Surely that wouldn't take 4 more years? Would it?

 

S!Blade<><

[FTC_Rostic]

7 hours ago, BladeMeister said:

Why is TF even talking about plans beyond the visual update and possibly 6.0?

 

Screenshots of maps for those DLCs were shown. So, my guess guy making maps at some point had nothing to do, and team quickly planned future DLCs for next XXX years. Map making guy now got something to do.

 

Just a guess...

41 minutes ago, BladeMeister said:

... 5 to 10 of the biggest game breaker bugs could have been fix easily in the present version of CLOD in that time frame. ...

 

Can you please list those bugs. Preferebly with links to TFS bug tracker. If no links, please provide instructions how to replicate those "GAME BREAKING" bugs. Additionally record video showcasing them.

I do know there is a lot of bugs and issues. But can't name that many "GAME BREAKING" bugs that make CloD unplayable.

[Buffo002]

1 hour ago, BladeMeister said:

As you repeat yourself once again, so I will join suite. It has been 4 years and nothing. 5 to 10 of the biggest game breaker bugs could have been fix easily in the present version of CLOD in that time frame. Remember, the one that each customer has already paid for, and could be enjoying even more right now while patiently waiting for the coming of the Holly Grail Version so to speak. To each their own, I could give a rats ass about VR or Visual upgrade, just fix the most glaring few issues that hobble the present gameplay in CLOD right now while we are waiting. Surely that wouldn't take 4 more years? Would it?

 

S!Blade<><

So I'm not a VR player and not even online... I'm just a single player... and I'm looking forward to the dynamic campaigns and static ones finally having pilot diaries, which are sorely lacking for single player. I just wanted to say that thanks to the people who wanted VR, the game has stalled a lot, so that all the modifications can be overturned and that's just the way it is... and insulting people who voluntarily put this simulator together in their free time won't change anything or speed things up.

[Mysticpuma]

1 hour ago, FTC_Rostic said:

 

Screenshots of maps for those DLCs were shown. So, my guess guy making maps at some point had nothing to do, and team quickly planned future DLCs for next XXX years. Map making guy now got something to do.

 

Just a guess...

 

Can you please list those bugs. Preferebly with links to TFS bug tracker. If no links, please provide instructions how to replicate those "GAME BREAKING" bugs. Additionally record video showcasing them.

I do know there is a lot of bugs and issues. But can't name that many "GAME BREAKING" bugs that make CloD unplayable.

     😁😂😎

Edited January 28 by Mysticpuma