Brief Room Episode 2: 2023 In Review, Plans For 2024, A Glimpse At The Upcoming Title

[Avimimus]

One could go Korea, Korea Carriers (DLC), Suez Crisis... then PTO or MTO ? I could see it. The Suez Crisis has a great planeset that would complement the ones from Korea (most of the aircraft were second-line/export aircraft, so they are actually Korean War era), and it'd provide a desert terrain to contrast with the tropical one.

 

It'd be a good place for them to go if the team researching Japanese aircraft requires a few more months. After all, they might even end up doing CFD to help them model some of the aircraft (I know one of the DCS 3rd party developers was talking about contracting CFD to fill in gaps in test flight data for the Pacific, and it has finally gotten cheap enough for such an approach to be possible).

[DD_Arthur]

6 hours ago, 76IAP-Black said:

nothing new or important for the community.

We have no road for 2024, no info about GB and the new project, so.. all in all 12 pages full of no real info again ... Im impressed, again ... 

Wellll…..your mileage may vary but….personally I have taken three things from this video;

 

1. They are producing a new game. It will be based on a development of the existing engine.

It will Not be compatible with existing content.

 

2. The first iteration of this new game will be based on the Korean War sometime between 1950 and 1953.

 

3. When it comes to release and development of this new game forget everything that came before.  
This is a new management and investment structure with their own ideas of how to go about the development and marketing of this new product.

 

I’m prepared to accept I might be talking out of my backside but all the above seemed obvious to me.

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said:

One things for certain, the old plane pack system is dead.

 

Bet you are wrong...

[MajorMagee]

4 hours ago, Metrallaroja said:

Some korean videos of take offs and landings:
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/22057

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/22225

I like seeing the knocked out T-34/85s near the end of the second film.

 

Gotta love those skyraiders in the first one as well.

 

Edited January 4, 2024 by MajorMagee

[RufusK]

This image when they were discussing PBR shows an antenna under the right wing of the Mustang, which is not present in the current P-51D model in Great Battles. 

* It seems that the Mustang in the video had an upgraded 3D model, not just a new texture technology. 

* I looked at a few manuals, and my best guess is that the antenna is for the SCR-695A IFF radio, but perhaps some knowledgeable Mustang folks can weigh in on that.

 

[YoYo]

19 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

I like seeing the knocked out T-34/85s near the end of the second film.

 

Gotta love those skyraiders in the first one as well.

 

Its not T-34 its IS-2.

[JG27_Steini]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:58 AM, Gambit21 said:

What are you talking about?

That was probably the best Room to fly in when coops were slow, and there was more available than the Zero and Wildcat.

 

I am talking about things got boring quickly for many. The community i've known tried it for some time and went back to IL2 and stayed there for a reason. There were a dozen of virtual online wars on the eastern and western front with thousands of player around. I can not remember a single PTO one (plz correct me). The european theatre just offers much more variety then Korea. It has a good balance, nearly all aspects of war, many countries too choose, you can progress from 41-45. The majority here focuses on US planes, do you ever thought about the lack of russian variants of planes?

[Chief_Mouser]

So... Korea. These scenarios?

• Initial battles v the North Korean Air Force; mainly propeller-driven aircraft and total UN air superiority after a couple of months.
• MiG Alley. Primarily MiG-15 v F-86 dogfights. 
• B-29 strategic bombing. Daylight raids halted after MiGs got at them, then small-scale night raids after a three-month hiatus.
• Ground attack and interdiction for the whole war.
• Carrier ops doing interdiction etc.

 

Thoughts:

• Initial battles will be the most interesting scenario because of the variation and types of aircraft involved.
• MiG Alley will be nothing but dogfights.
• B-29 will be AI-only. One complex aircraft to model and no-one is going to fly it from Japan and back even if it is possible.
• Ground attack: my favourite thing to do in Il-2 but did they meet with much aerial opposition, or just flak? If so, not too exciting.
• Carrier ops. Were the carriers ever attacked in Korea? If not then no need to model the AAA defences - a much simpler model. Plus we know that the carrier-borne aircraft operated from land, so if no battles over the carriers why bother having them in the game at all?

 

My enthusiasm for Korea is limited because, although it may contain some really interesting aircraft from the piston-engine/jet crossover period, such a one-sided battle of the UN v the MiG-15 will get old very quickly. Really late WW2 is the same for me - too lopsided to be really compelling.

[Avimimus]

5 minutes ago, Chief_Mouser said:

My enthusiasm for Korea is limited because, although it may contain some really interesting aircraft from the piston-engine/jet crossover period, such a one-sided battle of the UN v the MiG-15 will get old very quickly. Really late WW2 is the same for me - too lopsided to be really compelling.

 

That is why I always thought it'd make sense to pair it with a European theatre from the same time period (i.e. 1950-1953) or with the Suez Crisis (probably more viable, similar planes). I do suspect that the first couple of months will be the most interesting for Korea.

[MajorMagee]

3 hours ago, YoYo said:

Its not T-34 its IS-2.

Based on the roadwheels, and lack of return rollers, these are certainly not IS-2 tanks. The vertical back face of the turret, and the lack of muzzle brakes identifies them as the T-34/85.

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/22225 (From the video I was specifically referring to in my post)

 

The one they showed a blip of in the developer's commentary at the top of this thread was indeed, a mid-production (December 1944) IS-2. It featured the D-25T gun, and the flat tempered bow plate. Good choice for 1945, but not really the right vehicle for Korea.

 

 

Service To The Line,

On The Line,

On Time!

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2024 by MajorMagee

[Gunfreak]

Quote

Carrier ops. Were the carriers ever attacked in Korea? If not then no need to model the AAA defences - a much simpler model. Plus we know that the carrier-borne aircraft operated from land, so if no battles over the carriers why bother having them in the game at all?

 

Because taking off and landing on a carrier is a major part of being a navy pilot (and to a lesser degree marine pilot)

That's like saying there no need for airfields, just air start and end missions when your back over friendly territory.

 

 

[Robli]

17 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I recall a comment along the lines that Pacific would be planned to come after the next module... which isn't exactly saying that it would be the next module...

 

Well, things can be interpreted in many ways of course. I think that most people interpret that "Pacific after next project" means immediately after, just like "day after tomorrow" comes immediately after tomorrow and not a week later. No official promise has been made, but Han has also indicated in some other comments about wanting to do Pacific next.

After Jason's departure was announced, there was a "Now what?" thread, with Han's post marked as recommended, where he replied to a comment about Pacific, saying that if the team could have taken decisions 1.5 years ago, Pacific would be next (current) project, and then saying that now the team is making decisions - then continuing that if they are successful in hiring new specialists, then "next time it will become true". All referring to a comment about Pacific.

Then in Combat Pilot topic Han said again (marked as recommended post) that team wanted to do Pacific since 2018 and in the same topic saying jokingly to Scharfi to see, if Combat Pilot or BoX team will be the first to do Zero. 

 

So, obviously no promises and plans can always change, but Has has indicated in multiple occasions the teams intent to go for Pacific right after the current project.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

I am talking about things got boring quickly for many. The community i've known tried it for some time and went back to IL2 and stayed there for a reason. There were a dozen of virtual online wars on the eastern and western front with thousands of player around. I can not remember a single PTO one (plz correct me). The european theatre just offers much more variety then Korea. It has a good balance, nearly all aspects of war, many countries too choose, you can progress from 41-45. The majority here focuses on US planes, do you ever thought about the lack of russian variants of planes?

 

The Russian staples Yak, La, Il are all very likely to be there, and there is a large Russian player base that would love to fight the Muricans, and others like me who like the Russian stuff.

Also we don't have to have symmetrical objectives, if the planes are lopsided then we can adapt the game modes and objectives to that reality in a way that works with the asymmetry instead of against it.

But we don't know what building blocks were gonna get yet, so the game could  very well flop, but I think it's too early to dismiss the game already based on the plane set.

[Blitzen]

Korea or PTO in Combat Pilot  I know which will get my money later this year ( along with “The Bloody 100th “VR…)

[CountZero]

3 hours ago, MajorMagee said:

Based on the roadwheels, and lack of return rollers, these are certainly not IS-2 tanks. The vertical back face of the turret, and the lack of muzzle brakes identifies them as the T-34/85.

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/22225 (From the video I was specifically referring to in my post)

 

The one they showed a blip of in the developer's commentary at the top of this thread was indeed, a mid-production (December 1944) IS-2. It featured the D-25T gun, and the flat tempered bow plate. Good choice for 1945, but not really the right vehicle for Korea.

 

 

Service To The Line,

On The Line,

On Time!

 

 

 

Maybe its finaly tank crew colector tank game needed, but 3 years to late ? 

9 hours ago, RufusK said:

This image when they were discussing PBR shows an antenna under the right wing of the Mustang, which is not present in the current P-51D model in Great Battles. 

* It seems that the Mustang in the video had an upgraded 3D model, not just a new texture technology. 

* I looked at a few manuals, and my best guess is that the antenna is for the SCR-695A IFF radio, but perhaps some knowledgeable Mustang folks can weigh in on that.

 

if thats clips of new P-51D in new game enviroment it dosent look any differant then what we have now in GB. 

[BraveSirRobin]

28 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Korea or PTO in Combat Pilot  I know which will get my money later this year ( along with “The Bloody 100th “VR…)

I’m not sure that it’s realistic to expect Combat Pilot pre-orders to be available this year.

[Trooper117]

26 minutes ago, CountZero said:

it dosent look any differant then what we have now in GB. 

 

It was a designation change from P to F in 1947... they are essentially the same aircraft, there may have been some sort of change to the propeller if I remember right... 

Edited January 5, 2024 by Trooper117

[Lusekofte]

50 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

Korea or PTO in Combat Pilot  I know which will get my money later this year ( along with “The Bloody 100th “VR…)

 

20 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I’m not sure that it’s realistic to expect Combat Pilot pre-orders to be available this year.

I am pretty sure BSR is right. We might get a map, Zeke and a wildcat to play with like we kind of did in early Gb days

I just can’t get any enthusiasm around this Korea thing. I keep telling myself “ skyrader, A 26”

But all I see is a burning pile with propellers on top of it after bounced by a Mig 15. 
It gonna be a Sabre vs Mig scenario no matter how you look at it. In my mind why bother with propellers as flyable. 
This is why I am going to wait and see how this play out. 
The sad thing about it all is GB is going to be the new ROF. It is not much needed to straighten things up. More realism in ai, comm’s that work and gunners actually doing an effort. Sad indeed

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, Lusekofte said:

The sad thing about it all is GB is going to be the new ROF. It is not much needed to straighten things up. More realism in ai, comm’s that work and gunners actually doing an effort. Sad indeed

This is what is said about every single game that is discontinued.  “Only a few things needed to be fixed.”  The only problem with that lament is that there will ALWAYS be a few things that need to be fixed.  Because once those things are fixed people always find “just a few more things that need to be fixed.”  

[Lusekofte]

1 minute ago, BraveSirRobin said:

This is what is said about every single game that is discontinued.  “Only a few things needed to be fixed.”  The only problem with that lament is that there will ALWAYS be a few things that need to be fixed.  Because once those things are fixed people always find “just a few more things that need to be fixed.”  

Of course you are right. My continued feeling on GB for 10 years has been AAhh you almost there and then something else goes bad

[DragonDaddy]

1 hour ago, Blitzen said:

Korea or PTO in Combat Pilot  I know which will get my money later this year ( along with “The Bloody 100th “VR…)

I think we have a longer wait than that. 

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

....................I can not remember a single PTO one (plz correct me). ....................

VOW COOP war with its PTO front - we had western (including northern africa), east and far east campaigns running .

Edited January 5, 2024 by III/JG53Frankyboy

[BraveSirRobin]

6 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

No I don’t. Because if you do not like dogfighting you are bound to stumble upon the shortcomings as soon as you spawn in. Being dependant of ai gunners or ai wingmen is simply an obstacle you cannot overlook. 
If you provide bombers and other general purpose aircraft you suppose to make a minimum of playability into it. Or just leave it. And call it what it is. GB the dogfight game. I do see why people are in mp and shoot each other up and hunt defenceless target drones find it good fun. 

Ya, you do.  I did plenty of ground attack in GB MP.  So do lots of other people.  Either get an escort or be very careful about how and where you attack.  I also did plenty of ground attack in RoF.  Same thing.  Don’t do stupid crap and you have a better chance of surviving.

 

And if you made a solo attack and get caught and are expecting your gunners to bail you out then you made a terrible assumption.  A solo bomber against a well flown fighter was almost helpless.  

[Lusekofte]

3 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Ya, you do.

Do this not look like a stale mate?

You know what you like. And believe me I done more such missions than you. Tip made a new scripted campaign I am going to fly now. I do not want our escalating disagreements spam this topic. Let’s say I got less things to do in this game than you. 
but I try. And I want this specific game to be better. I am quite sure you also do this, except your continued effort to defend all things in this game. I find that part charming but not very effective 

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

I am talking about things got boring quickly for many.

 

You mean for you.

 

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

The community i've known tried it for some time and went back to IL2 and stayed there for a reason.

 

Zekes vs Wildcats was IL2...I'm understandably confused.

 

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

There were a dozen of virtual online wars on the eastern and western front with thousands of player around. I can not remember a single PTO one (plz correct me).

 

I took part in some smaller ones, but online presence isn't an indicator of overall customer base. You should know that by now.

 

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

The european theatre just offers much more variety then Korea.

 

Eh...not really. Anyway we have that already so if you feel that way, you're already covered.

 

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

It has a good balance, nearly all aspects of war, many countries too choose, you can progress from 41-45.

 

Again, good thing we have this already, you can go fly it.

 

6 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

The majority here focuses on US planes, do you ever thought about the lack of russian variants of planes?

 

No I don't think about the lack of Russian planes because we have variants of Russian planes.

No offense but you're not making much sense. You seem to be conflating several things, including but not limited to conflating PTO with Korea.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I had great fun on Zekes vs. Wildcats.  In fact some of the best missions I ever flew in multiplayer were on that server.  I hope that missions like that will make a comeback someday.

 

[Avimimus]

6 hours ago, CountZero said:

if thats clips of new P-51D in new game enviroment it dosent look any differant then what we have now in GB. 

 

It isn't the new terrain. That much I'm sure of, if only that ?

 

5 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

This is what is said about every single game that is discontinued.  “Only a few things needed to be fixed.”  The only problem with that lament is that there will ALWAYS be a few things that need to be fixed.  Because once those things are fixed people always find “just a few more things that need to be fixed.”  

 

True, it would be nice if the wrapped up a few things (if they are planning on ending support though).

 

Maybe dropping the perfectionism for a moment to give us cosmetic drop-tanks... considering that many of the 3d models already exist... and it'd make the campaigns look more realistic if some of the AI aircraft carried them (even if they didn't do anything). Making AP rounds be more damaging to ships than HE rounds. Adding a couple of much needed Collector Aircraft to allow realistic 1916 scenarios in Flying Circus. There is a bit of polishing that might be worth it.

 

 

[Lusekofte]

In online flying I flew a lot of Pacific. And cannot really remember it was not popular. 
I am a big fan of naval aircraft designs and Overall Japanese aviation designs. Those radials sure looks great. And that KI 46 nice. 
I just hope that all benefits by flying US radials is given. So when you fly a Wildcat you can feel it is sturdy against a Zero. Design and wits about it is all you got against a nimble but deadly Zero. 

[Gambit21]

10 minutes ago, Lusekofte said:

In online flying I flew a lot of Pacific. And cannot really remember it was not popular. 
I am a big fan of naval aircraft designs and Overall Japanese aviation designs. Those radials sure looks great. And that KI 46 nice. 
I just hope that all benefits by flying US radials is given. So when you fly a Wildcat you can feel it is sturdy against a Zero. Design and wits about it is all you got against a nimble but deadly Zero. 

That’s because unlike Steini’s contention, it was popular. I built and hosted PTO coops constantly. The PTO missions were among the most popular, along with some WTO/ETO stuff. We flew everything.

[ACG_Bussard]

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I’m not sure that it’s realistic to expect Combat Pilot pre-orders to be available this year.

He doesn´t write about spending, only about knowing. He can simply put his money in a piggy bank and leave his wallet for this years pre-orders in his pocket. That would be an option.

[BraveSirRobin]

4 hours ago, Avimimus said:

True, it would be nice if the wrapped up a few things (if they are planning on ending support though).

 

Maybe dropping the perfectionism for a moment to give us cosmetic drop-tanks... considering that many of the 3d models already exist... and it'd make the campaigns look more realistic if some of the AI aircraft carried them (even if they didn't do anything). Making AP rounds be more damaging to ships than HE rounds. Adding a couple of much needed Collector Aircraft to allow realistic 1916 scenarios in Flying Circus. There is a bit of polishing that might be worth it.

We’re not 100% sure that they’re completely done making updates to GB, so there could be more changes (although I doubt that drop tanks will be one of them).  But I am 100% sure that when they are done it won’t take very long until we see a “so sad that they abandoned the game when it was only a few changes from being done” post in the forum.

[ACG_Bussard]

6 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

The sad thing about it all is GB is going to be the new ROF. It is not much needed to straighten things up. More realism in ai, comm’s that work and gunners actually doing an effort. Sad indeed

According to the road map 2023 this was foreseeable. Compare the postings at the FC Forum from 30.11.2023: 

[Enceladus828]

3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

We’re not 100% sure that they’re completely done making updates to GB, so there could be more changes (although I doubt that drop tanks will be one of them).  But I am 100% sure that when they are done it won’t take very long until we see a “so sad that they abandoned the game when it was only a few changes from being done” post in the forum.

They stated this about FC in future plans:

 

Quote

After the completion of FC-III, there are plans for 2024 to develop an additional set together with Yugra Media that will reproduce the remaining land-based aircraft in Rise of Flight.

It is currently planned to include:

• British Sopwith Pup fighter.
• British rear-engine fighter Airco DH.2.
• British two-seat reconnaissance Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter.
• German fighter Albatros D.III.
• German Fokker E.III monoplane fighter.
• German two-seat reconnaissance Roland C.IIa.

We plan to further improve the maps of Flying Circus projects, supplement their development and add the airfields that are located further from the front line.

With the bolded statement I doubt they'll pack in it for GBs anytime soon: there will still be game updates to it. I hope some things from the new project can be brought into GBs like if for say Drop Tanks and gear extending due to loss of hydraulics are implemented.

[Trooper117]

2 hours ago, Lusekofte said:

I just can’t get any enthusiasm around this Korea thing. I keep telling myself “ skyrader, A 26”

But all I see is a burning pile with propellers on top of it after bounced by a Mig 15. 
It gonna be a Sabre vs Mig scenario no matter how you look at it. In my mind why bother with propellers as flyable. 

 

Ok, why bother with propellers?... we now know there is definitely going to be a Corsair... the Corsair did an awful lot of ground pounding missions  in Korea, did they not?

You will have bombs and rockets. There will probably be an early jet ground pounder as well (F-84 Thunderjet) which excelled in the ground attack role. The Mig's will have their work cut out with the Sabre jets at altitude, there is fun still to be had I'm sure...

[ACG_Bussard]

59 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

With the bolded statement I doubt they'll pack in it for GBs anytime soon: there will still be game updates to it. I hope some things from the new project can be brought into GBs like if for say Drop Tanks and gear extending due to loss of hydraulics are implemented.

Let's hope so, I just don't have the faith. But I'm happy to be proven wrong. ?

[Trooper117]

Oh come on... we've just had the video, there is a stack of WWII stuff still in the works, they have to keep GB going because I doubt you will have a complete 'new project' anytime this year, it may not be complete until the following year.

[danielprates]

3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Ok, why bother with propellers?... we now know there is definitely going to be a Corsair... the Corsair did an awful lot of ground pounding missions  in Korea, did they not?

You will have bombs and rockets. There will probably be an early jet ground pounder as well (F-84 Thunderjet) which excelled in the ground attack role. The Mig's will have their work cut out with the Sabre jets at altitude, there is fun still to be had I'm sure...

 

Insofar we're guessing about those jets, any jets, right? I mean we've only seen prop planes which "must" mean Korea. Unless there's some other source I am missing. Dont get me wrong I "assume" any Korea sim worthy of the name will likely include the essential jets of the age but, tbh, this threas has whole pages mentioning the jets we are 'sure' to be getting, maybe it is healthy to do a reality check here.

[Trooper117]

26 minutes ago, danielprates said:

maybe it is healthy to do a reality check here.

 

When the war kicked off there were jets and props operating, so the F-80c and the F-84 would be about, the Sabre turned up a bit later.

So even if the devs just wanted to do the early part of the war, there wouldn't just be props as some people would want. Jets would be there for sure.

I don't need a reality check to think the devs would leave out jets at the launch of the new game.

[sevenless]

If I read that correctly, B-29 operations in Korea was switched exclusively to night time bombing after the loss of 28 bombers at daytime. Interested to see how they will model that in the new module.

Edited January 5, 2024 by sevenless

[Lusekofte]

4 minutes ago, sevenless said:

If I read that correctly, B-29 operations in Korea was switched exclusively to night time bombing after the loss of 28 bombers at daytime. Interested to see how they will model that in the new module.

Some sort of radar bombing must be implemented