Brief Room Episode 2: 2023 In Review, Plans For 2024, A Glimpse At The Upcoming Title

[Avimimus]

Using the source Count Zero listed (Sewell), and simplifying it a bit, we get the following losses:

F-4U	555
F-51	477
F-80	298
F-86	275
F-84	234
AD-2	211
F9F	163
B-26	154
B-29	107
AT-6D	102
Seafury	62
Meteor	42
Firefly	38

 

vs.

 

MiG-15	345
MiG15bis	83
Yak-9P	30
Il-10	11
Tu-2	9
La-9	8
Po-2	7
La-11	6
Yak-18	3
A-20G	1

 

Losses roughly correlate with the amount of combat usage an airplane sees, which vaguely correlates with its importance. So it is a good place to start when thinking about what a representative planeset would look like.

 

Notes:

- The B-26 is a redesignated A-26 Invader

- Each type includes subvariants (except the Mig-15 and Mig 15 Bis which are listed separately).

 

Some aircraft may have been important for reasons other than the numbers lost, especially early in the war where some types may have made up a larger percentage of losses (the above lists go for the entire length of the war so they don't represent the most important types in each period).

 

I'd personally enjoy an F-82G converted for daylight use... even though only 15 were shot down, they did play a bigger role at the start of the war (e.g. first offensive air mission, first victory by an American aircraft), and they had their radars removed once they switched to ground-attack duties.

 

Some of the lesser used types:

L-4	36
F7F	28
TBM-3	18
OY-1	16
F2H	15
PBM-5	15
F-82G	15
F-94B	14
C-47A	13
OE-1	9

 

Helicopters:

H-5F	26
H-5D	17
H-13A	13
H-19A	11

[sevenless]

2 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

I wonder when EA will start ?

 

If we go by their thankfully revised policy of ordering collectors, then EA will start when they have worthwhile content in map, ground assets, flyable planes and AI planes. Maybe in 2 years from now. I guess we might learn in spring along with the official announcement of the new title.

[Hartsblade]

44 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Yes I know. 

?

[Vishnu]

Sigh….soooo not interested in Korea.   My undying hope was the MTO, but that was crushed long ago.   I’m glad they’re adding Finland and South maps.   At least that keeps WWII interesting. 

[Gambit21]

31 minutes ago, Vishnu said:

Sigh….soooo not interested in Korea.   

 

That's how many of us have felt about the Eastern Front since 2014 or before.

 

 

[MajorMagee]

On 1/1/2024 at 6:44 AM, LuftManu said:

 

I've studied my Father's war for quite some time, and I've never seen that photo before. Nice shot of a T-34/85 in action. Thanks!

[Gunfreak]

45 minutes ago, Vishnu said:

Sigh….soooo not interested in Korea.   My undying hope was the MTO, but that was crushed long ago.   I’m glad they’re adding Finland and South maps.   At least that keeps WWII interesting. 

 

Again Cliffs over Dover have you covered. 1 map so far. 2 more in the works.

 

I don't see the point of having several sims cover the exact same thing.

 

Cliffs cover ETO 1940-1942 and Mediterranean well. GB covers eatern front. And late late war. DCS does its DCS thing.

 

Soonish DCS will do its DCS thing for late PTO, while combat pilot will cover early PTO. And looks like GB or whatever the new name will be will cover Korea. 

Edited January 2, 2024 by Gunfreak

[sniperton]

23 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Well we can hope. We know Korea is next followed by PTO. The only wish involved is more Korea/carriers etc.

That was my point. Hopes. Wishes. Speculations. Hopes. Wishes. Speculations. Some people may enjoy this intellectual hide-and-seek game, but I don't, for various reasons, my age and experience being one of them. I respect your faith, but mine has diminished. Don't care anymore.

[Gambit21]

7 minutes ago, sniperton said:

That was my point. Hopes. Wishes. Speculations. Hopes. Wishes. Speculations. Some people may enjoy this intellectual hide-and-seek game, but I don't, for various reasons, my age and experience being one of them. I respect your faith, but mine has diminished. Don't care anymore.

I get it

 

[ITAF_Artiglio]

10 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Has anyone figured out what engine this is?

 

 

It is a Fiat A.74 RC.38 Ciclone ???????

 

[Jade_Monkey]

Would love to have the invader. I was able to see it in person at the New England Air Museum where they also have a Corsair and a B29 among other cool planes (was also able to climb until the P-47 cockpit!).

 

[deathmisser]

3 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Using the source Count Zero listed (Sewell), and simplifying it a bit, we get the following losses:

F-4U	555
F-51	477
F-80	298
F-86	275
F-84	234
AD-2	211
F9F	163
B-26	154
B-29	107
AT-6D	102
Seafury	62
Meteor	42
Firefly	38

 

vs.

 

MiG-15	345
MiG15bis	83
Yak-9P	30
Il-10	11
Tu-2	9
La-9	8
Po-2	7
La-11	6
Yak-18	3
A-20G	1

 

Losses roughly correlate with the amount of combat usage an airplane sees, which vaguely correlates with its importance. So it is a good place to start when thinking about what a representative planeset would look like.

 

Notes:

- The B-26 is a redesignated A-26 Invader

- Each type includes subvariants (except the Mig-15 and Mig 15 Bis which are listed separately).

 

Some aircraft may have been important for reasons other than the numbers lost, especially early in the war where some types may have made up a larger percentage of losses (the above lists go for the entire length of the war so they don't represent the most important types in each period).

 

I'd personally enjoy an F-82G converted for daylight use... even though only 15 were shot down, they did play a bigger role at the start of the war (e.g. first offensive air mission, first victory by an American aircraft), and they had their radars removed once they switched to ground-attack duties.

 

Some of the lesser used types:

L-4	36
F7F	28
TBM-3	18
OY-1	16
F2H	15
PBM-5	15
F-82G	15
F-94B	14
C-47A	13
OE-1	9

 

Helicopters:

H-5F	26
H-5D	17
H-13A	13
H-19A	11

Totally stealing this to make my own modules : D lol

 

But yea thank you for that list m8 

[Avimimus]

5 minutes ago, deathmisser said:

Totally stealing this to make my own modules : D lol

 

But yea thank you for that list m8 

 

Thank CountZero, and moreover, Sewell - who collected the original data. I just collapsed variants down and sorted by number lost. ? 

[Hoss]

The one thing you did not see were any Japanese objects...... The tank looked Korean era US to me... At midnight, Trans Baikol time, Aug 8th, The Soviet Union invaded into Manchuria with 1 million troops against Japan's 700,000 troops. The conflict only lasted a month or so..... so why put all that work Into one month of combat with Japan until the wars end..... illogical.....

So with a Corsair, B-29, Mustang and what looked like a Korean era US tank, I'll wager on the Korean conflict. It's long overdo that we have a high fidelity simulation done on this war. I love flying the Saber in DCS..... imagine all the aircraft of the RAF, RN, USN, USAF... and ships........... and Soviet era planes in a modern game engine.

Brilliant!

 

JMTCW

 

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

That's how many of us have felt about the Eastern Front since 2014 or before.

 

The nice thing is learning how to enjoy or become interested in new things... I'm looking forward to developing a new appreciation for Korea (Mig Alley was pretty neat, but it did tend to crash quite a bit). ? Btw. Didn't Mig Alley have infantry?

 

[deathmisser]

5 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Thank CountZero, and moreover, Sewell - who collected the original data. I just collapsed variants down and sorted by number lost. ? 

Ok, thanks to the guys too hehe. 

 

Btw did any seafires went into the Korean war? 

[Hoss]

I would be more interested in the Bridges over Toko-ri.... Corsairs and Panthers....Wonson harbor.... lots of CAS supporting Marines...Inchon landings... let us hope they do not neglect the USN in this one..

The RN had Seafire 47s.... don't forget about the Meteors

Edited January 3, 2024 by Hoss

[CountZero]

9 hours ago, Hartsblade said:

I would like to remind folks that I called Korea back in November of 2022 and was poo-poo'd by some members of the community. ?

 

?

and this guy made news artical at same time,

https://stormbirds.blog/2022/11/13/the-korean-war-for-the-next-gen-il-2-i-have-thoughts/

it was not so hard to guess what it can be after they eliminated so many options in that first live stream in november 22. My bet/hope was Italy, but after they said what they said in that first live stream i understod that Italy is imposible and it cant be anything els exept Korea

 

[Jaegermeister]

2 hours ago, ITAF_Artiglio said:

 

 

Actually it's the same engine that is in the Douglas A-1 Skyraider... how convenient.

 

I would love to see that one flyable. Ever since the 8th AF traded their P-47s for P-51s most of the really close air support has been handled by just 3 planes. Thunderbolt, Skyraider, Thunderbolt II... which is still in service despite being classified as obsolete various times.

 

[Sgt_Joch]

KOREA is great news. I have been hoping for a good Korea flight sim for a long time, the last good one was Rowan's "Mig Alley" which is now hopelessly obsolete.

 

However, also excited about the YAK-3/LA-7 collector planes and new Ostfront maps. Looking forward to setting up late war missions.

 

Good news all around.

[Art-J]

7 hours ago, Hoss said:

The tank looked Korean era US to me...

You were probably thinking about M-26, but the tank on the screen is Soviet IS-2, which still fits both scenarios. The other clues, however (especially what appears to be a post-WWII Yak-9P) pretty much indicate Korea indeed.

[Avimimus]

8 hours ago, deathmisser said:

Ok, thanks to the guys too hehe. 

 

Btw did any seafires went into the Korean war? 

 

Yes, but only one was lost, so it didn't make the simplified list.

[Metrallaroja]

Quite an informative video while we wait

 

[Metrallaroja]

And also informative SACs of US Navy airplanes for the curious https://www.aahs-online.org/resources/navy_sac.php

 

[Gunfreak]

11 hours ago, deathmisser said:

Ok, thanks to the guys too hehe. 

 

Btw did any seafires went into the Korean war? 

They did. Even got a mig kill. One of few props that did during the war. I think only p51 and Corsair can also claim that.

 

The Skyraider actually shot down 2-3 Mig 17s during the vientam war.

The last time a prop plane shot down a jet. And so the Skyraiders actually had more air to air kills in vietnam than the A4 skyhawk that only got 1(using zuni rockets)

 

 

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

They did. Even got a mig kill. One of few props that did during the war. I think only p51 and Corsair can also claim that.

 

The Skyraider actually shot down 2-3 Mig 17s during the vientam war.

The last time a prop plane shot down a jet. And so the Skyraiders actually had more air to air kills in vietnam than the A4 skyhawk that only got 1(using zuni rockets)

 

Seafuries also claimed one Mig destroyed and two damaged (during a four vs. eight engagement).

[Hartsblade]

12 hours ago, CountZero said:

?

and this guy made news artical at same time,

https://stormbirds.blog/2022/11/13/the-korean-war-for-the-next-gen-il-2-i-have-thoughts/

it was not so hard to guess what it can be after they eliminated so many options in that first live stream in november 22. My bet/hope was Italy, but after they said what they said in that first live stream i understod that Italy is imposible and it cant be anything els exept Korea

 

Yup. The Stormbird guys are always on top of things and I enjoy reading their articles,  but I beat him to the punch by 4 days!!?

 

(BTW if folks haven't figured it out yet, this is all tongue-in-cheek?)

[deathmisser]

Thank you for this information guys. 

 

It's just that if I were the head of the project I would pick aircraft that also played a role in ww2.  

 

So again modules have a chance of inter-mingle with each other. 

Edited January 3, 2024 by deathmisser

[Blitzen]

I don’t think it’s been suggested yet, but could this suspected diversion to the 1950’s Korean Police Action be an attempt to capture more Asian interest in Great Battles with a new map of Korea and the Japanese Sea?

[Koziolek]

39 minutes ago, Blitzen said:

I don’t think it’s been suggested yet, but could this suspected diversion to the 1950’s Korean Police Action be an attempt to capture more Asian interest in Great Battles with a new map of Korea and the Japanese Sea?

Who knows, but Japan-China war would do even better. Plus Flying Tigers for an American market ?

Edited January 3, 2024 by Koziolek

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, deathmisser said:

It's just that if I were the head of the project I would pick aircraft that also played a role in ww2.  

 

So again modules have a chance of inter-mingle with each other. 

 

With the exception of the F-4U, F-51D, the Tu-2S and maybe the A-26/B-26, all of the aircraft are substantially different from their WWII counterparts. It'd be like simulating a Fw-190A2 in 1942 with a Ta-152H...

 

Note: There may be some others... for example the  Firefly and the Avengers might have been pretty similar (I'm not sure though). I think it'd be kind-of bizarrely fascinating to fly a Firefly in the same airspace as a Mig-15... but I doubt enough people feel that way for it to happen

[Talisman]

On 1/2/2024 at 4:50 PM, Lusekofte said:

Have you tried flying choppers in DCS? After that you won’t fly them in msfs. And I tested most of them. In fact spent a lot of money in order to find something useful. 
Fact is, if there is no substance to it, it will be another Waco the sailplane or a recce plane with no recce job. Cool for a while but then meh. 

In order for me to lift the eyebrow for this Korea thing it must be a good modelled flyable B 26 , Skyraider and A 26 I would not mind a chopper but damn it got to serve a purpose 

Until now we got 90 % US fighters with glass engines. 

 

You bet I have!    I love the DCS Huey and there are great missions for choppers on the MP Enigma Cold War Server.  The MP Enigma Cold War server mission mechanics are great for choppers and you can have a major effect on the ground war and win maps with use of helicopters.  Korea is were it all started in terms of troops using Helicopters on the front line to gain advantage and win battles.  I fly with a virtual Helicopter sqn on DCS and have great fun, just like I do with my virtual WW2 sqn in IL-2.  Choppers definitely serve a purpose in the ground war. 

 

My flight sim time is split more or less evenly between DCS Helicopters and IL-2 fixed wing.  

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman 

Edited January 3, 2024 by 56RAF_Talisman

[Metrallaroja]

2 hours ago, deathmisser said:

It's just that if I were the head of the project I would pick aircraft that also played a role in ww2

The B-29 and F4U-4 they showcased on the video played a role in ww2 so you are not that far off.

In fact the F4U-4 of the video is on the National Museum of the Marine Corps and is painted in ww2 schemes even.

Spoiler

 

[deathmisser]

13 minutes ago, Metrallaroja said:

The B-29 and F4U-4 they showcased on the video played a role in ww2 so you are not that far off.

In fact the F4U-4 of the video is on the National Museum of the Marine Corps and is painted in ww2 schemes even.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Yea most aircraft were in early Korea was used in late WW2/end war. Funny as the Il-10 did serve in Korea at the end of the war WW2  

[Lusekofte]

34 minutes ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

My flight sim time is split more or less evenly between DCS Helicopters and IL-2 fixed wing.  

 

Happy landings,

Salute 

I repeat I do not mind choppers in Korea module. Not at all. But experiences from this franchise tells me it won’t be as useful unless logistics around it is built. My first chopper experience except early msfs was modded in old il 2. And pretty decent it was. 
This time I will be damn sure it won’t be another Waco glider. I can loop in it with full load. I was looking forward to a challange a basically overloaded brick with wings. And got a sailplane. We need to be more demanding when it comes to fm

[JG27_Steini]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:10 PM, CountZero said:

Here is list of airplanes used in war:

https://www.korean-war.com/AirWar/AircraftType-LossList.html

 

also day by day air war events:

https://www.airandspaceforces.com/article/1000korea/

 

If this is true, then why are there any La 9-11 or Yak 9 planed?

[danielprates]

18 hours ago, Hoss said:

I would be more interested in the Bridges over Toko-ri.... Corsairs and Panthers.... Hungnam harbor.... lots of CAS supporting Marines...Inchon landings...

 

 

... Grace Kelly ....

[ACG_Bussard]

34 minutes ago, danielprates said:

 

 

... Grace Kelly ....

 

[CountZero]

2 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

 

If this is true, then why are there any La 9-11 or Yak 9 planed?

for variety i guess, they did something, you only realy need MiG-15s if its up to me how big map needs to be no one will be flying slow props

[Gambit21]

10 hours ago, JG27_Steini said:

If this is true, then why are there any La 9-11 or Yak 9 planed?

 

What makes you think there is no La-11 planned?

 

Just see what shakes out.