Pimax crystal

[[CPT]Rhino06]

So I received my pimax crystal. A lot of mixed thoughts and feelings. First off, the build quality seems a bit lackluster. Comfort wise, it's not bad once you get used to it. But the clarity, sweet spot and colors is absolutely amazing. I'm running a 13900 cpu and an rtx 4090. Even with a system like this, the crystal really taxes it. I've tried so many variations of settings, graphics tweaks and other adjustments to maintain smooth game play. I feel like I've got it solidly dialed in.  But! The only issue I seem to be having is a slight jitter or lagging when a plane crosses my 3 or 9 as it goes by me. Even though I'm seeing 90 fps on my counter. Also aside from this issue I'm seeing a slight ghosting effect of other aircraft as well as the tops of hills. What can I do to get rid of this ghosting effect? 

[Gunfreak]

27 minutes ago, [CPT]Rhino06 said:

So I received my pimax crystal. A lot of mixed thoughts and feelings. First off, the build quality seems a bit lackluster. Comfort wise, it's not bad once you get used to it. But the clarity, sweet spot and colors is absolutely amazing. I'm running a 13900 cpu and an rtx 4090. Even with a system like this, the crystal really taxes it. I've tried so many variations of settings, graphics tweaks and other adjustments to maintain smooth game play. I feel like I've got it solidly dialed in.  But! The only issue I seem to be having is a slight jitter or lagging when a plane crosses my 3 or 9 as it goes by me. Even though I'm seeing 90 fps on my counter. Also aside from this issue I'm seeing a slight ghosting effect of other aircraft as well as the tops of hills. What can I do to get rid of this ghosting effect? 

What settings are you using in the pimax? 

 

I don't have any ghosting myself.

The lagging thing is an IL2 issue. They've stretched the engine to it's limit and it struggles. 

[[CPT]Rhino06]

51 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

What settings are you using in the pimax? 

 

I don't have any ghosting myself.

The lagging thing is an IL2 issue. They've stretched the engine to it's limit and it struggles. 

Smart smoothing is off. DFR is off and I have my resolution set to .70 in pimax tool. In open xr I left the resolution alone. Shadows off,  reflections off no msaa or fxaa. And preset set to balanced. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by [CPT]Rhino06

[Panzerlang]

I've done pretty much nothing with mine and I don't see less than 85fps and pretty smooth overall (occasional jerk/stutter). 13900k and 4090, steamVR at 100% resolution. In-game settings, all the stuff that matters is maxed (I think clouds are dialled back a bit).

First headset that doesn't fit very well and I'm not comfortable with the lenses. Looking straight ahead the image is good but if I swivel my eyes a bit I have issues. I can see the edges of the lenses making black circles and my eyes strain to focus (no forveated rendering in IL2, correct?). I have to assume this is a fit issue so I'm hoping the wide FOV lenses (due in March they told me) might be a fix. The Pico4 was perfection in all these areas. Maybe the lenses are slightly duff, dunno. Lol.

[[CPT]Rhino06]

14 hours ago, Hetzer-JG52 said:

I've done pretty much nothing with mine and I don't see less than 85fps and pretty smooth overall (occasional jerk/stutter). 13900k and 4090, steamVR at 100% resolution. In-game settings, all the stuff that matters is maxed (I think clouds are dialled back a bit).

First headset that doesn't fit very well and I'm not comfortable with the lenses. Looking straight ahead the image is good but if I swivel my eyes a bit I have issues. I can see the edges of the lenses making black circles and my eyes strain to focus (no forveated rendering in IL2, correct?). I have to assume this is a fit issue so I'm hoping the wide FOV lenses (due in March they told me) might be a fix. The Pico4 was perfection in all these areas. Maybe the lenses are slightly duff, dunno. Lol.

Have you had any issues with your headset not charging? Last night my headset suddenly died in flight and the pimax tool said battery cannot charge. I did some reading and guys are having this same issue saying the new firmware update has disabled the USB c side side port charging. I run a USB c to USB c from a wall outlet to the side of the headset and earlier this week I was getting unlimited game play without battery drain. Now suddenly last night that happened to me. Any ideas?

[Panzerlang]

8 hours ago, [CPT]Rhino06 said:

Have you had any issues with your headset not charging? Last night my headset suddenly died in flight and the pimax tool said battery cannot charge. I did some reading and guys are having this same issue saying the new firmware update has disabled the USB c side side port charging. I run a USB c to USB c from a wall outlet to the side of the headset and earlier this week I was getting unlimited game play without battery drain. Now suddenly last night that happened to me. Any ideas?

Only issue I've had with the hub is the D-Port connector is very loose in mine. Charging has not been a problem (so far at least).

[SR-F_Winger]

I had the Crystal as well. Couldnt stand the distortions as soon as you leave the sweet spot and the abysmal comfort.
Am happy living ever after in my Aero now

[Talisman]

1 hour ago, Winger said:

I had the Crystal as well. Couldnt stand the distortions as soon as you leave the sweet spot and the abysmal comfort.
Am happy living ever after in my Aero now

 

How about the FOV Winger?  I hear the Aero FOV is not great, but would appreciate your take.  I am thinking about an upgrade from my current Pimax 5k+ to the Aero, as I am not keen to purchase the Crystal for various reasons.  But the Aero FOV is my concern at the moment.  So any feedback re FOV compared to Pimax would be gratefully received. 

 

Happy landings,

 

Talisman

Edited January 5, 2024 by 56RAF_Talisman

[SR-F_Winger]

The FOV of the Crystal is bigger.
But tbh. i was not impressed.
If you want good advice then DEFINATELY go for the AERO!!!
Use XR Necksaver and you will have an absolute blast. FOV is absolutely not an issue with the Aeros extensive awesome almost view filling clarity and lense filling screetspot.

 

If anyone wants a recommendation wich one to buy i would ALWAYS recommend the AERO! No question!

[Talisman]

Thanks very much for getting back to me Winger, much appreciated. 

 

Happy landings,

 

 

Talisman

[c19580]

I’m strongly considering the Crystal due to image quality but concerned about all the come along issues like weight/comfort, chromatic aberration, audio, connectivity issues, etc…

 

With the announcement that the Aero is being discontinued, where does that leave this enthusiasts segment? Is the Pimax the only choice and a bad one? Does the BSB provide a more attractive option than the Pimax?

 

For me, image and FOV are highest priorities and don’t need a HMD that excels at everything else, but also don’t want a HMD that is terrible at everything else.

[DBCOOPER011]

3 hours ago, c19580 said:

I’m strongly considering the Crystal due to image quality but concerned about all the come along issues like weight/comfort, chromatic aberration, audio, connectivity issues, etc…

 

With the announcement that the Aero is being discontinued, where does that leave this enthusiasts segment? Is the Pimax the only choice and a bad one? Does the BSB provide a more attractive option than the Pimax?

 

For me, image and FOV are highest priorities and don’t need a HMD that excels at everything else, but also don’t want a HMD that is terrible at everything else.

 

I suggest you look at the Pimax and VR4DCS discord if interested in the Crystal, there is a plethora of information on the headset there. I've had a really good experience with the crystal once set up, but I had a considerable period of time getting it dialed in correctly. Once dialed in, the headset looks and runs really well in IL2, and really shines in DCS with OpenXR, QVFR, and the almalence layers. The image is really sharp and the FOV is probably somewhere between the G2 and Index.

 

The weight/comfort isn't too bad for seated sim/racing use, but I wouldn't prefer it for any type of standing/active VR games. I do see some slight green chromatic aberration at the edges of the FOV, which I've read is due to some sort of coating on the lenses. I really have to look for it to notice and it doesn't bother me much at all. The biggest problem I've had was getting the headset to charge correctly. I fixed it for the most part with sorting out different USB ports, but I believe the firmware is also a part of the problem. There should be an update soon and hopefully it fixes it for good.

 

Even though I purchased it straight from pimax, I would probably buy it from amazon today as the companies reputation is not the greatest. I do not look forward to RMA'ing this thing at all if I can possibly avoid it. Other then that, the headset works great for me so far..

[Varibraun]

3 hours ago, c19580 said:

I’m strongly considering the Crystal due to image quality but concerned about all the come along issues like weight/comfort, chromatic aberration, audio, connectivity issues, etc…

 

With the announcement that the Aero is being discontinued, where does that leave this enthusiasts segment? Is the Pimax the only choice and a bad one? Does the BSB provide a more attractive option than the Pimax?

 

For me, image and FOV are highest priorities and don’t need a HMD that excels at everything else, but also don’t want a HMD that is terrible at everything else.

 

EDIT - Looks like @DBCooper and I were typing at the same time and are basically of the same opinion...

 

If it helps, I have been happy with my Crystal and Pimax (had it for 7 months now).  I briefly owned the Aero shortly after it's release but returned it for several reasons (one of which was field of view, especially vertical - this was before VRnecksafer worked with it).  I think the general consensus is that the Crystal is the current leader for clarity and I personally have not had any very noticeable chromatic aberration.

 

One other thing to note is that while Varjo moving out of this price range for development & support, Pimax seems committed to the modular Crystal with continued releases of swappable lenses, comfort improvements, and software.  It does involve some level of fiddling and I ended up with two support tickets along the way so far (lens imperfection & charging hub stopped working), but Pimax support was responsive and replaced both for me without any hassle other than answering a couple of questions.  

 

So, for me at least, the Crystal has not been a "bad" choice at all.  I preferred it to the Aero (I know others here feel differently) and it is an amazing upgrade from my previous G2.  To answer your questions:

 

Visuals - The best I have seen in a VR headset, even a little better than the Aero for me.  Also, definitely better than an older 1080p 55inch Dell monitor I have set up.

Weight/comfort - Took me about a month to get used to it coming from the G2.  The apache strap and an additional counter weight with it helped me.

Chromatic aberration - Not an issue for me (others here have theorized it may be headset specific or impacted by face shape).

Connectivity - I did have one of their hubs die (which Pimax replaced, but a powered USB hub did the trick before the replacement) otherwise no issues for me.

Audio - I like the DMAS off ear upgrade as well as my G2 off ear (mine were free for a preorder, but I think they are an extra $99).

BSB - Hard to say without trying it, but I think the lack of eye tracking is an important consideration, especially with further improvements eye tracking may allow for performance in the Crystal  (see https://almalence.com/dlplugin/)

Battery - You didn't mention this one, but to me it is the biggest con for the Crystal.  Everything else outweighs it, and for me it holds a charge throughout my play sessions (usually no more than 3 hours, but I do have to switch them out in between with is simply a minor hassle.

 

Bottom line - The Crystal gets some hate for many reasons, but it has continued to improve since release.  So if you are considering it, I would order one that can be easily returned (Amazon) and see how you feel about it.

 

Edited January 20, 2024 by Varibraun

[c19580]

3 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

EDIT - Looks like @DBCooper and I were typing at the same time and are basically of the same opinion...

 

If it helps, I have been happy with my Crystal and Pimax (had it for 7 months now).  I briefly owned the Aero shortly after it's release but returned it for several reasons (one of which was field of view, especially vertical - this was before VRnecksafer worked with it).  I think the general consensus is that the Crystal is the current leader for clarity and I personally have not had any very noticeable chromatic aberration.

 

One other thing to note is that while Varjo moving out of this price range for development & support, Pimax seems committed to the modular Crystal with continued releases of swappable lenses, comfort improvements, and software.  It does involve some level of fiddling and I ended up with two support tickets along the way so far (lens imperfection & charging hub stopped working), but Pimax support was responsive and replaced both for me without any hassle other than answering a couple of questions.  

 

So, for me at least, the Crystal has not been a "bad" choice at all.  I preferred it to the Aero (I know others here feel differently) and it is an amazing upgrade from my previous G2.  To answer your questions:

 

Visuals - The best I have seen in a VR headset, even a little better than the Aero for me.  Also, definitely better than an older 1080p 55inch Dell monitor I have set up.

Weight/comfort - Took me about a month to get used to it coming from the G2.  The apache strap and an additional counter weight with it helped me.

Chromatic aberration - Not an issue for me (others here have theorized it may be headset specific or impacted by face shape).

Connectivity - I did have one of their hubs die (which Pimax replaced, but a powered USB hub did the trick before the replacement) otherwise no issues for me.

Audio - I like the DMAS off ear upgrade as well as my G2 off ear (mine were free for a preorder, but I think they are an extra $99).

BSB - Hard to say without trying it, but I think the lack of eye tracking is an important consideration, especially with further improvements eye tracking may allow for performance in the Crystal  (see https://almalence.com/dlplugin/)

Battery - You didn't mention this one, but to me it is the biggest con for the Crystal.  Everything else outweighs it, and for me it holds a charge throughout my play sessions (usually no more than 3 hours, but I do have to switch them out in between with is simply a minor hassle.

 

Bottom line - The Crystal gets some hate for many reasons, but it has continued to improve since release.  So if you are considering it, I would order one that can be easily returned (Amazon) and see how you feel about it.

 

 

thanks so much for the comprehensive response! Very helpful and will give it a try!

[Paul_RSXK]

Just got my Pimax last week. Started with the settings I had for my G2. After much tweaking the only changes I made were - turn off MSAA, override the screen res in Open XRTK to a slightly lower value, apply CAS upscaling and sharpen 20%. I use the Pimax client settings for the game with DFR turned off.( because it isn’t supported by the sim). 
I can run the game at full Pimax native res but the load it’s placing on my 4090 has to be heard to be believed and I am only running a few frames below my final settings FPS wise, but the grunt required to achieve that number must be substantial. I have a 4090 and an i7-10700k overclocked running at 4.9GHz. Most of the IL2 in game settings are on high or Ultra. I have the horizon set to 130k. 
 

No motion smoothing or MR, masking set to on in Pimax client(I think this is a key setting to maintain a decent frame rate at the higher pixel count). Using Pimax XR and the Open XR TK.

Free flight I get 90FPS more less all the time. Dogfights, depends on number of a/c and map etc. but generally between 80-90, occasionally dropping to 75. The bottom end is better than I had with my G2 TBH.

 

Dogfights feel smoother with next to no lag or none at all in the places I’d come to expect it in my G2. The G2 was quite choppy during head on passes.

Clarity is extremely good. Especially at distance. 
 

I briefly went back to Steam VR just to check and compare. I’ve spent scores of hours tuning in XR but going back to Steam VR was a real step back in time to my Rift S days. An immediate drop to 65FPS from 90FPS and all the XR clarity had gone. I could spend time tweaking, but I’d rather spend that time flying.

overall the Crystal has been a great investment for this committed VR simmer.

the improvements in DCS are even more impressive, especially with Quadview DFR. A real game changer.

 

cheers

 

Paul

On 12/23/2023 at 10:10 PM, [CPT]Rhino06 said:

So I received my pimax crystal. A lot of mixed thoughts and feelings. First off, the build quality seems a bit lackluster. Comfort wise, it's not bad once you get used to it. But the clarity, sweet spot and colors is absolutely amazing. I'm running a 13900 cpu and an rtx 4090. Even with a system like this, the crystal really taxes it. I've tried so many variations of settings, graphics tweaks and other adjustments to maintain smooth game play. I feel like I've got it solidly dialed in.  But! The only issue I seem to be having is a slight jitter or lagging when a plane crosses my 3 or 9 as it goes by me. Even though I'm seeing 90 fps on my counter. Also aside from this issue I'm seeing a slight ghosting effect of other aircraft as well as the tops of hills. What can I do to get rid of this ghosting effect? 

 

Comfort needs some work. I’ve ordered the 14mm foam insert and the apaches comfort head strap. After wearing the headset for a week it’s starting feel better but nowhere near as comfortable as the G2 was out of the box. 

Edited January 24, 2024 by Paul_RSXK
Additional info.

[Paul_RSXK]

Further testing. Using open XR I overrode the native res of the set. Setting it to 3500. 90Hz was too much at the headset native res. The fans on the card were going wild. Dropped the speed to 72 Hz. All good, card was running quietly. I then thought, I wonder what would happen if I go back to full native headset res at 72Hz?
 

so I turned off the override Res setting in the OXRTK. Bizarrely, it was the best dogfighting experience I’ve had in the sim and frame rates were maintained almost all the time, rarely dropping below 70.  The card fans are definitely working harder but nowhere near as intense as they were at 90Hz. A much better visual experience than at a reduced res. Crystal clear resolution even on head on passes. Well, I never expected that…. The card is taking the load as opposed to bottlenecking at the CPU. 11-12ms as opposed to 3-5ms on the cpu.  
Oddly with res override on at 72Hz I struggled to get much above 60- 65FPS flying an Me262 in free flight above Normandy. Now getting a rock solid 72-74, at full native res only dipping slightly over built up areas. As noted the 4090 card fans are busy at this setting, not sure I’d want to fly a 3 hour session at that load on the card, but most missions in IL2 are usually less than 25-30 mins. 
visuals are jaw dropping. Now if only we could get Quad foveated or dynamic foveated rendering for IL2 ???

Edited January 24, 2024 by Paul_RSXK
Additional info

[Youtch]

I was about to ask the same question if 72Hz is any good in IL2 as the key message of VR had always been that it must be played keeping framerate always above 90Hz or he will lag in dogfights.

 

For G2 it is obvious that anything going down 80 will create lagging.

[chiliwili69]

On 1/24/2024 at 11:17 AM, Youtch said:

I was about to ask the same question if 72Hz is any good in IL2 as the key message of VR had always been that it must be played keeping framerate always above 90Hz or he will lag in dogfights

 

The human reaction time for a visual stimulus is about 250 miliseconds (ms).

 

When you play at 90Hz (Assuming true 90fps is achieved with no reprojection) your eye is updated every  11 ms, so your real lag is 250+11

When it is at 72Hz, the update rate is 14 ms, so your lag is 250+14.

 

So, our eye-brain system is the true lag, not the differences in the refresh rates, which are in the order of 1%  (264/261).

 

Another matter is the collateral effects that each mode (72Hz, 90Hz) could have in each device (shimmering, flickering, etc).

 

I was comparing the 80 versus 90 Hz mode with my index or 72-80-90 with Quest3 and never noticed any extra lag. That´s why I always used the 80Hz for Index and 72 for Quest3.

[DBCOOPER011]

72hz works really well for me. But, I notice once the closer the frametime gets to 14ms the stutter starts to occur. I can pretty much get stutter free up to around 13ms..

[Youtch]

Is stutter effect more prone to happen in 72hz than 90hz?

[DBCOOPER011]

2 hours ago, Youtch said:

Is stutter effect more prone to happen in 72hz than 90hz?

 

Not that I noticed. Just the closer I get to the limits obviously the more prone stutter occurs. I think the limit is 11ms for 90hz and 14ms for 72hz.

 

I eliminated a lot of my stutters by moving the GPU and associated PCI root port to a separate CPU core with the interrupt affinity policy app. That and lowering my system latency with info from the below website helped a lot w/stutters...

 

https://www.xbitlabs.com/gaming/

Edited January 26, 2024 by DBCOOPER011
added info

[TCW_Brzi_Joe]

On 1/26/2024 at 9:18 AM, chiliwili69 said:

Another matter is the collateral effects that each mode (72Hz, 90Hz) could have in each device (shimmering, flickering, etc).

hey, I got Crystal too

And I still struggle to get good settings on it for IL-2. Why? Because in my unit there is something strange with 90Hz and 72Hz modes.

I can use 120Hz without problems, but 90Hz and 72Hz are flickering as crazy. I figured that backlight is problem (lowering backlight reduces flickering, but then picture is bad). Also flickering is not same in left and right eye.

 

For that reason I play IL-2 over OpenComposite/OpenXR. HMD is set to 120Hz, but with OpenXR Toolkit I made limit on 90Hz (exactly 3/4 of 120Hz). That is my workaround for now...

 

Also, I want to warn you; reacently I was testing "Almalence_DLVR_OpenXR_Layer" ( see this video for info ), and IL-2 game was not possible to play. Even if I disable Almalence, IL-2 was breaking in matter of seconds after entering any server or flight locally. That does not make sence at all, as Almalence was disabled, but I needed 5 hours and many tests until I figured that for IL-2 that program/injector/plugin must be fully unistalled.

 

By the way, Almalence really improve picture quality (for eyetracking HMDs), no doubt.

[DBCOOPER011]

5 hours ago, TCW_Brzi_Joe said:

hey, I got Crystal too

And I still struggle to get good settings on it for IL-2. Why? Because in my unit there is something strange with 90Hz and 72Hz modes.

I can use 120Hz without problems, but 90Hz and 72Hz are flickering as crazy. I figured that backlight is problem (lowering backlight reduces flickering, but then picture is bad). Also flickering is not same in left and right eye.

 

For that reason I play IL-2 over OpenComposite/OpenXR. HMD is set to 120Hz, but with OpenXR Toolkit I made limit on 90Hz (exactly 3/4 of 120Hz). That is my workaround for now...

 

Also, I want to warn you; reacently I was testing "Almalence_DLVR_OpenXR_Layer" ( see this video for info ), and IL-2 game was not possible to play. Even if I disable Almalence, IL-2 was breaking in matter of seconds after entering any server or flight locally. That does not make sence at all, as Almalence was disabled, but I needed 5 hours and many tests until I figured that for IL-2 that program/injector/plugin must be fully unistalled.

 

By the way, Almalence really improve picture quality (for eyetracking HMDs), no doubt.

 

72 and 90hz is flicker free for me. I would recommend reconnecting your displayport cable or connecting directly into the HMD. Almalence does not work in IL2 since it needs openxr and eyetracking. It will work in opencomposite initially, but crashes since eye tracking isn't supported. You can turn it off in steamvr, thats what I do when I switch from DCS to IL2 or vice versa..

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 1/26/2024 at 8:14 AM, DBCOOPER011 said:

 

Not that I noticed. Just the closer I get to the limits obviously the more prone stutter occurs. I think the limit is 11ms for 90hz and 14ms for 72hz.

 

I eliminated a lot of my stutters by moving the GPU and associated PCI root port to a separate CPU core with the interrupt affinity policy app. That and lowering my system latency with info from the below website helped a lot w/stutters...

 

https://www.xbitlabs.com/gaming/

Can you say more? Been having lots of stuttering lately. I use Process Lasso already and force affinity onto the physical cores and schedule higher priorities for IL-2.

[DBCOOPER011]

7 hours ago, drewm3i-VR said:

Can you say more? Been having lots of stuttering lately. I use Process Lasso already and force affinity onto the physical cores and schedule higher priorities for IL-2.

 

The link below has some good info on that..

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c2-lUJq74wuYK1WrA_bIvgb89dUN0sj8-hO3vqmrau4/edit?pli=1

[Paul_RSXK]

On 1/23/2024 at 6:26 PM, Paul_RSXK said:

Further testing. Using open XR I overrode the native res of the set. Setting it to 3500. 90Hz was too much at the headset's native res. The fans on the card were going wild. Dropped the speed to 72 Hz. All good, the card was running quietly. I then thought I wonder what would happen if I go back to full native headset res at 72Hz?
 

so I turned off the override Res setting in the OXRTK. Bizarrely, it was the best dogfighting experience I’ve had in the sim, and frame rates were maintained almost all the time, rarely dropping below 70.  The card fans are working harder but nowhere near as intense as they were at 90Hz. A much better visual experience than at a reduced res. Crystal clear resolution even on head-on passes. Well, I never expected that…. The card is taking the load as opposed to bottlenecking at the CPU. 11-12ms as opposed to 3-5ms on the cpu.  
Oddly with res override on at 72Hz I struggled to get much above 60- 65FPS flying a Me262 in free flight above Normandy. Now getting a rock solid 72-74, at full native res only dipping slightly over built-up areas. As noted the 4090 card fans are busy at this setting, not sure I’d want to fly a 3-hour session at that load on the card, but most missions in IL2 are usually less than 25-30 mins. 
The visuals are jaw-dropping. Now if only we could get Quad foveated or dynamic foveated rendering for IL2 ???

The 14mm face cushion arrived a few days ago. The extra stand-off between my eyes and the lenses has made a noticeable difference to the image sharpness and, for me, it's a lot more comfortable. TBH the 14mm pad and comfort strap should come as standard with the headset.