AI behaviour in BoS

[gianluca]

Just thinking to AI... I wonder if they will be able as in IL-2 to see through clouds and have a built-in radar to spot enemy behind them: hopefully not!

Also, wil they be able to taxi on the ground (a feature introduced in IL-2 with the last 4.12 patch)? I don't know if to some of these questions have been already answered, in this case please address me to to the related topic/thread...

 

Best regards,

 

Gianluca

[Feathered_IV]

And what will the bomber crews do.  Will an AI navigator be able to give you a heading to target for example?

[gavagai]

The RoF AI are not able to see through cumulus clouds.  As for situational awareness, it depends on how you adjust certain parameters.  In RoF the AI have nearly perfect situational awareness, so I created a mod that decreased the frequency with which the "novice" and "normal" AI perform a check for threats.  It's a bit of smoke and mirrors but it creates the impression that the AI doesn't see you sometimes.

 

I asked Requiem about the BoS AI and his opinion was that it did seem better than in RoF, so we will see.

[Finkeren]

One thing I haven't been able to understand is, why it's so hard to build in true FOV for the AI. True FOV where the AI has to constantly "turn its head" to stay aware, even taking factors like lighting and contrast into account, has been an integral part of stealth games for more than a decade. Why can't we have it for combat flight sims? It's not like modeling it would be more complex, since there would seldom be sudden changes in lighting and there would generally be fewer obstacles to block vision.

 

I honestly don't get, why it's such a stumbling block.

[FuriousMeow]

Because none of what you say is AI seeing. AI doesn't take into account lighting, contrast, FOV, trees, grass, rocks, anything rendered in 3D except solid objects if it's told to take those into account.

 

AI knows everything, until it's explicitly programmed not to.

[Finkeren]

Because none of what you say is AI seeing. AI doesn't take into account lighting, contrast, FOV, trees, grass, rocks, anything rendered in 3D except solid objects if it's told to take those into account.

 

AI knows everything, until it's explicitly programmed not to.

Well, yeah that's pretty much a given. Not really telling me much here.

 

What I want to know, is why FOV has been modeled fairly convincing in numerous stealth based action games, but can't seem to find its way into a flight sim.

[Heywooood]

alot of stuff goes into action games that doesnt go into the much more complicated and CPU intensive Combat Flight sim programs -

 

how many AI routines per second should there be? call it AiR - multiplied by how many AI aircraft on the map? call that number AiQ - so AiR x AiQ = X

now how many player controlled aircraft (PcA) ? certainly not flying straight and level so all of those inputs must be tracked call those (PiS) so that PcA  x PiS = y

AI vehicles on the ground cannot run the same routines as AI in flight so AiG x the number of vehicles  AiG x AiGQ = z

 

add in the weather, lighting, ballistics, damage, player POV rendering speed - such that the smoothness of flying at 200-400kts near ground level must not be lost...etc

and you quickly run out of alphabet cereal - your PC ulcerates - and you log onto the forums in a frothy fume of burnt umber and hatred...ranting about the square root of an isocoles triangle being equal to its opposite side

 

thank you - I studied math in Canada mind you, take it up with them if you want your three minutes back

[FuriousMeow]

Thought I made it pretty clear, AI FOV isn't modelled in stealth games. At all.

Edited August 2, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[Finkeren]

Thought I made it pretty clear, AI FOV isn't modelled in stealth games. At all.

No, sorry to say, you didn't make it clear for me at all.

 

I'm not a programmer, I'm just genuinely curious as to why it's posible to at least give a fairly convincing illusion of AI FOV in stealth games, but imposible to do in a flight sim.

[Finkeren]

alot of stuff goes into action games that doesnt go into the much more complicated and CPU intensive Combat Flight sim programs -

 

how many AI routines per second should there be? call it AiR - multiplied by how many AI aircraft on the map? call that number AiQ - so AiR x AiQ = X

now how many player controlled aircraft (PcA) ? certainly not flying straight and level so all of those inputs must be tracked call those (PiS) so that PcA  x PiS = y

AI vehicles on the ground cannot run the same routines as AI in flight so AiG x the number of vehicles  AiG x AiGQ = z

 

add in the weather, lighting, ballistics, damage, player POV rendering speed - such that the smoothness of flying at 200-400kts near ground level must not be lost...etc

and you quickly run out of alphabet cereal - your PC ulcerates - and you log onto the forums in a frothy fume of burnt umber and hatred...ranting about the square root of an isocoles triangle being equal to its opposite side

 

thank you - I studied math in Canada mind you, take it up with them if you want your three minutes back

I can understand that an accurate flight sim will put a strain on CPU, but is modelling (or giving an illusion of) FOV really that demanding on the system?

 

If it's a choice between AI FOV or modelling detailed AI and correct physics on ground objects, then I say: Go for the former and stick with something like the very basic ground objects model of the old IL2. AI with 360 degrees radar is one of the biggest immersion killers in any single player CFS.