Any chance to survive a Full nose over landing accident? in IL2 GB and in real WW2

[kraut1]

Hi,

Sorry for my not so perfect english: with a "Full nose over accident" I mean that at the end the plane lies on it's back.

In IL2 GB a "Full nose over landing accident" means currently certain death, nearly no chance to survive, even when the speed is not very high.

I don't want to critisize this, because it is obviously a lethal danger when the cockpit is pressed to the ground by the weight of the plane, that is still sliding on the ground.

But I would like know, if in WW2 some lucky fighter pilots survived these horrible accidents? Maybe protected by armored front screen frames / head protection?

 

interesting for me especially P40, FW190, BF109, I16

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by kraut1

[Lusekofte]

I died in a ground loop , not even a violent one. 
I also survived a stall and freefall 20 mtrs. 
I have given up figuring out wtf going on with that and accepted it. Because cause of death is not measured by impact and stops as they say. Not in reality. It might be the intention 

[jollyjack]

Only in IL2 you can survive ... set your custom settings to invulnerable; these guys did that probably in real life:

 

 

[kraut1]

1 hour ago, Lusekofte said:

I died in a ground loop , not even a violent one. 
I also survived a stall and freefall 20 mtrs. 
I have given up figuring out wtf going on with that and accepted it. Because cause of death is not measured by impact and stops as they say. Not in reality. It might be the intention 

for IL2 GB I agree, I have experienced exactly the same.

But my question: how was reality in WW2?

(I ask because I fly sometimes from self made IL2 GB "improvised airfields" where accidents happen more frequently)

Of course I do not complain about the accidents itself / it's my own risk. I am only interested in the chance to survive.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/85683-answer-found-historical-ww2-airfield-bergen-op-zoom-existing-or-identical-with-woensdrecht/

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by kraut1

[=475FG=_DAWGER]

The initial accident has a high chance of survival if the impact wasn't extreme.

 

However, if there is a post crash fire, the outlook is bleak as you generally cannot get out without assistance.

 

IL2 is far to simplistic to account for all the possibilities or even just a few of them.

[R33GZ]

7 hours ago, kraut1 said:

Hi,

Sorry for my not so perfect english: with a "Full nose over accident" I mean that at the end the plane lies on it's back.

In IL2 GB a "Full nose over landing accident" means currently certain death, nearly no chance to survive, even when the speed is not very high.

I don't want to critisize this, because it is obviously a lethal danger when the cockpit is pressed to the ground by the weight of the plane, that is still sliding on the ground.

But I would like know, if in WW2 some lucky fighter pilots survived these horrible accidents? Maybe protected by armored front screen frames / head protection?

 

interesting for me especially P40, FW190, BF109, I16

 

 

Your English is excellent mate. As far as survivability goes, I've seen photos of some horrendous crashes where the pilot has survived. If the ground speed was low, I'd say the chances of survival were relatively good.... but then fate has a way interrupting good luck sometimes ? 

[FuriousMeow]

My "pilot" has survived a few flip overs in WW1 and WW2 planes, more luck than anything in that regard. The force to flip a WW2 plane over is tremendous. May survive, but most likely not. Armored windscreen won't prevent the force on your spine as your head pulls on it.

Most well known incident of a plane flipping over is the Zero on Akutan Island:

 

Flight Petty Officer Tadayoshi Koga attempted an emergency landing on Akutan Island about 20 miles (32 km) northeast of Dutch Harbor, but his Zero flipped over on soft ground in a sudden crash-landing. Koga died instantly of head injuries (his neck was broken by the tremendous impact),

[Monksilver]

I've done the flip over while botching landings rather too much in FC of late, I survive pretty much every time.

[Charon]

In real life, certainly.

 

Quote

No pilot was more blessed with a combination of Thunderbolt durability and sheer good luck than Milton Anderson. Just as his fighter cleared the runway his engine lost power as several cylinders blew out. Immediately Anderson shoved forward on the stick to lower the fighter's nose, the only possible procedure to maintain enough flying speed to clear the rolling ground. In this he was successful, except that at nearly 150 miles per hour, gear still down, the Thunderbolt smashed into Long Island Sound. We watched in horror as a mountain of spray leaped upward and the sound of the crash reached us. At once the stricken fighter cartwheeled, hurtling wingtip over tail, literally wadding itself like crumpled paper. The thunderbolt was still tumbling helplessly as we raced to the shore. By now the P-47 was a crumpled mass, and our concern was to find Anderson's body before it sank or drifted away with the current.
Anderson wasn't dead! Strapped tightly into his seat he had survived the tremendous buffeting of the crash, suffering only a bump on his head and shoulder bruises. The moment the wreckage came to a stop, he wriggled out of his straps and half waded and swam to shore. He was waiting patiently for us, and wanted to know what took us so long to get there!

Thunderbolt! Johnson and Caidin, Chapter 8.

 

Quote

It had become darker and I was determined to land somewhere. I swept in toward the extreme right side of the airfield and touched down smoothly. I rolled about 100 meters after the landing and then noticed the tail of my Me was rising slowly. Cutting the throttle and pulling back on the stick had no effect. I quickly switched off the ignition and pulled my straps tight. Then came the expected crash and I was hanging upside down in my crate. As I had flipped over quite near the dispersal, the technical personnell were on the scene quickly and raised the Me.
[...]
We watched the other aircraft land and commented on the crashes: there had now been seven. Saschenberg and Ewald agreed that my somersault had been the prettiest crash on the airfield.

The War Diary of Hauptmann Helmut Lipfert, Helmut Lipfert, p171

 

More modern.

 

[senseispcc]

In real life during the Normandy campaign some Typhoon pilots did survive under a returned plane, one did even survive more than one day in the no-mans-land between British and German forces. Like Lallemant, a Belgian Typhoon pilot relate it in his book "Rendez vous avec la chance".

Sorry, I do not know the name of the book in English or if it is available in that language.

[kraut1]

Here I had the lethal  "nose over accident" during my first landing on this airfield, all other landings worked well.

 

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

On 12/7/2023 at 5:48 AM, jollyjack said:

Only in IL2 you can survive ... set your custom settings to invulnerable; these guys did that probably in real life:

 

 

What the heck is this??? ???

[MAJ_stug41]

The Nieuport 28 at the American heritage museum crashed nose over recently, pilot was fine-

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/nieuport-crash-american-fist-fighter-plane

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

It’s one of those accidents for which a few small circumstances probably make all the difference and hence it is something of a lottery. You can find examples of sudden death and unlikely survival but my guess would be at least 50% chance of surviving the initial nose over at normal landing speed.

 

On 12/7/2023 at 1:52 PM, =475FG=_DAWGER said:

The initial accident has a high chance of survival if the impact wasn't extreme.

 

However, if there is a post crash fire, the outlook is bleak as you generally cannot get out without assistance.

 

IL2 is far to simplistic to account for all the possibilities or even just a few of them.

 

Basically, this.

[jollyjack]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:57 PM, Monksilver said:

I've done the flip over while botching landings rather too much in FC of late, I survive pretty much every time.

 

I tend to always put on this t-shirt playing FC: