Kuban 109s: G-4 w/gunpods or G-6 with 30mm for Bomber/Sturmovik Intercept?

[percydanvers]

Which is the better tradeoff of flight performance for firepower?

[Marvel]

Hi, for me is G-4 w/gunpods. Maybe less effective, but faster for e&e and dogfight. G-6 w/30 mm is more effective but a bit heavy and slowly... Only personal taste...

Ciao!

 

M.

[percydanvers]

5 hours ago, Marvel said:

Hi, for me is G-4 w/gunpods. Maybe less effective, but faster for e&e and dogfight. G-6 w/30 mm is more effective but a bit heavy and slowly... Only personal taste...

Ciao!

 

M.

 

I tend to agree. The G-6 without MW-50 is just kind of painful... but there is something about knocking down IL-2s in only a few hits

[Yogiflight]

Is the G-4 with gunpods really faster than the G-6 without gunpods? And what about agility, especially the rollrate? The Gs with gunpods are good as long as you don't encounter enemy fighters, but if I get attacked by a fighter, I prefer the G-6 without gunpods.

[percydanvers]

7 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Is the G-4 with gunpods really faster than the G-6 without gunpods? And what about agility, especially the rollrate? The Gs with gunpods are good as long as you don't encounter enemy fighters, but if I get attacked by a fighter, I prefer the G-6 without gunpods.

 

There is something to be said for that. You have a bit more flexibility with the G-6U4, whereas the gunpods on the G-4 just sort of limit you to bombers

[Charon]

There's also the historical aspect. Do we know when 30mm equipped G-6s became available in the east? I would think attacking bombers over Germany would have gotten priority for them.

[the_emperor]

15 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

Is the G-4 with gunpods really faster than the G-6 without gunpods?

 

I dont know if this is reflected in the game, but the G-4 is ~ 10kph faster at sea level without gunpods at 1.3/2600. That difference begins to decline with increasing altitude 

There is not such a big difference of those two types, especially when airframe conditions (due to the nature of the war on the eastern front) had probably a bigger impact on perfomance than the two MG131 blisters.

And I have not found any data an a G-4 with gunpods, but here is some for the G-6 with gundpods:

 

unfortunately the 109s DB605a is still artificially limited to the 1min self destruct sequence for Start&Notleistung instead of the more correct 3min.

[percydanvers]

7 hours ago, the_emperor said:

 

I dont know if this is reflected in the game, but the G-4 is ~ 10kph faster at sea level without gunpods at 1.3/2600. That difference begins to decline with increasing altitude 

There is not such a big difference of those two types, especially when airframe conditions (due to the nature of the war on the eastern front) had probably a bigger impact on perfomance than the two MG131 blisters.

And I have not found any data an a G-4 with gunpods, but here is some for the G-6 with gundpods:

 

unfortunately the 109s DB605a is still artificially limited to the 1min self destruct sequence for Start&Notleistung instead of the more correct 3min.

 This is fantastic info - Thank you!

9 hours ago, Charon said:

There's also the historical aspect. Do we know when 30mm equipped G-6s became available in the east? I would think attacking bombers over Germany would have gotten priority for them.

 

I don't have a huge amount of info there. Helmut Lipfert mentions getting them in 1944, but for some reason I can't recall whether it during the Crimean campaign or the fighting in Romania. Either way you are right, the 20mm was much more common in the Eastern Front as compared to the West.

[the_emperor]

10 minutes ago, percydanvers said:

I don't have a huge amount of info there.

you have to keep in mind, that the 30mm central cannon was not a field mod, like the game suggests but a version of its own that came (mostly) as such from the assembly line and often where directly put into the home defense against viermots and the closer the front lines came the more they appeared over the tactical battlefield in the east.

[percydanvers]

Just now, the_emperor said:

you have to keep in mind, that the 30mm central cannon was not a field mod, like the game suggests but a version of its own that came (mostly) as such from the assembly line and often where directly put into the home defense against viermots and the closer the front lines came the more they appeared over the tactical battlefield in the east.

 

That makes sense. In 1944, when I know 109 wings were definitely starting to get G-6U4 the Reichsverteidigung mission was starting to bleed over onto the Eastern Front, with shuttle missions going over Poland and the 15th AF hitting Romania.

[Yogiflight]

16 minutes ago, the_emperor said:

you have to keep in mind, that the 30mm central cannon was not a field mod, like the game suggests but a version of its own that came (mostly) as such from the assembly line and often where directly put into the home defense against viermots and the closer the front lines came the more they appeared over the tactical battlefield in the east.

This is what I think, too. The 30mm was a developement against fourmot bombers. To shoot down fighters, the central 20mm combined with the two 13mm, was a quite good armament.

[kraut1]

12 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

This is what I think, too. The 30mm was a developement against fourmot bombers. To shoot down fighters, the central 20mm combined with the two 13mm, was a quite good armament.

Yes, and it should always be considered, that in the WW2 reality the 30mm MK108 had the reputation to have frequently gun stoppages under high G conditions (typical for dogfights).

 

 

[the_emperor]

And one thing to keep in mind is, that tough on paper the german 13mm AP round is not very potent when compared to other .50/20mm cal AP rounds, due to its design it was very effective against armour of air targets, when the armour is behind aluminium (though I dont know how and if this is correctly reflected in the game):

[sevenless]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:24 AM, Charon said:

There's also the historical aspect. Do we know when 30mm equipped G-6s became available in the east? I would think attacking bombers over Germany would have gotten priority for them.

 

Within the timeframe of BoK (04/43-10/43) it is highly unlikely that even a single G6/U4 saw service in the east. 08/44 seems to be a more realistic intro date for the east according to official documents (I./JG 52).

 

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=5313

 

https://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg51.htm

 

https://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg52.htm

 

https://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg3.htm

Edited December 13, 2023 by sevenless