Issue solved: Bomber Gunners do not open fire independently, they wait until first bomber is shot down?

[kraut1]

Hi,

(ADDED LATER: REASON FOR ISSUE NOT AI, IT WAS WAYPOINT PRIORITY HIGH, THANKS Charon!)

Last week I tested B25 / B26 AI Gunners with a quick  mission.

Result was: only with AI Level ACE acceptable.

But today I found out that the gunners worked only because there was at the mission begin an attack command vs air / ground targets.

 

Today I tested a Easy Mission Generator mission: 2 FW190 vs 12 ACE B25:

The gunners did not react to the closing FW190, I flew in close formation with the B25s, I fired a very short burst at a nearby B25, medium damaged, no reaction by the B25 gunners. After that a fired a further burst a another B25 which destroyed it.

Now the gunners of the other B25 started to react with acceptable accurate gun fire.

 

-Is this behaviour typical for all bomber types? (added later: for A20 the same)

-Or is it possible by a simple change of the mission design to make all gunners to status "fire at will" or "engage enemy planes" from mission begin?  (ADDED LATER:YES, MISSION DESIGN, IT WAS WAYPOINT PRIORITY HIGH, THANKS Charon!)

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by kraut1
solved: AI is okay, mission design to be optimized

[Charon]

It sounds like the bombers have a 'High priority' waypoint which should probably be 'medium' instead.

[kraut1]

5 hours ago, Charon said:

It sounds like the bombers have a 'High priority' waypoint which should probably be 'medium' instead.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!

 

I edited the EMG GENERIC Template with the Bomber Flight definition, set the attack area WP3 to medium (and wp1).

In the new EMG B25 test mission the bomber gunners started to fire at will during my first attack!

I have changed the title of the post, because this issue was not an AI related issue.

Edited November 27, 2023 by kraut1

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Isn't there an in-game button you can press that you can use to order the gunners to fire at will etc

[MAJ_stug41]

1 hour ago, -TBC-AeroAce said:

Isn't there an in-game button you can press that you can use to order the gunners to fire at will etc

This is regarding non-player bombers in a made mission, not one a player is flying.

[IckyATLAS]

On 11/27/2023 at 7:49 AM, kraut1 said:

I have changed the title of the post, because this issue was not an AI related issue.

Not quite as if you set the Priority level to Medium, the bombers (AI ones) may take evasive actions and ruin the initial bomb run.

[SYN_Vander]

3 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

Not quite as if you set the Priority level to Medium, the bombers (AI ones) may take evasive actions and ruin the initial bomb run.

 

Which is exactly why I created this 'workaround' for EMG (first post). Can anyone confirm this has been fixed?

[kraut1]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

Not quite as if you set the Priority level to Medium, the bombers (AI ones) may take evasive actions and ruin the initial bomb run.

 

1 hour ago, SYN_Vander said:

 

Which is exactly why I created this 'workaround' for EMG (first post). Can anyone confirm this has been fixed?

Hi,

here my updated test results:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/86442-cooptemplate_generic-suggestions-and-tests-update-281123/

 

My current conclusion:

There is currently no perfect solution possible:

-Bomber or Escort Fighter pilots want, that the formation stays together.  That bomber gunners open fire too late is for this purpose maybe not so importent.

-Intercept fighter pilots: If you are the first attacking intercept fighter and you can attack from astern without any opposition by the gunners- absolute immersion killer, a worthless kill if you shoot down in this way a bomber..

If I am an interceptor pilot I want to have always fighting opponents.

 

Only a small idea:

Is it possible in mission generators to define the Bomber Waypoints priority in dependence of the player`s role in the mission?

For interceptor players medium, for escort / bomber pilots high?

[jollyjack]

Maybe High priority only for the bombers' AttackArea commands ? The route waypoints left to medium.

[kraut1]

9 minutes ago, jollyjack said:

Maybe High priority only for the bombers' AttackArea commands ? The route waypoints left to medium.

Could be a solution if it is possible to design the mission in a way that high priority AttackArea (means bomber gunners do not open fire) is only for a very short time active, ca. less than 30seconds.

[SYN_Vander]

On 12/11/2023 at 1:36 PM, jollyjack said:

Maybe High priority only for the bombers' AttackArea commands ? The route waypoints left to medium.

 

That's exactly what I am doing. The waypoints up to Initial Point have priority medium. Then a waypoint is triggered over the target with also priority medium. The last waypoint has a large radius. As soon as the bomber is inside the trigger radius of the last waypoint it will trigger the AttackArea command with priority high. I can reduce the trigger radius of the last waypoint to minimize the time that the bomber is in priority high mode. However, the radius can't be too small since the bombers need time to aim, open bomb bay doors and drop well before they are over the target (which depends on speed and altitude). I can try to actually calculate bomb fall distance since I will have the waypoint speed & height of the aircraft and optimize this :).

 

In the end it's just an issue that devs need to fix, we can just try to minimize the impact.

Edited December 12, 2023 by SYN_Vander