Hi all. Been waiting for VR for the last 2 years.... and the roll rate of AI is insane.. any fix ahead

[Roover]

Any fix ahead..

[Lusekofte]

Can you explain what exactly you mean should get fixed. People have complained about slow roll rate on planes they are flying. And now you come along saying they roll too fast. AI suppose to have same fm as human 

[Skycat1969]

And is this post about Cliffs of Dover, for which VR has been in development for about two years?

[Art-J]

Wrong forum, mate. You need to ask in CloD section.

 

But to summarize the situation: VR still in development - advanced stages but still stability issues encountered in closed Beta. AI roll adjustement to be looked at for 6.0 version of the game in the future.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Art-J

[Buzzsaw]

Yes, we are working on AI behaviour, including roll rate.

[Mysticpuma]

VR in action. 

 

 

[Trooper117]

His flying apparel is totally naff... 

[Dagwoodyt]

This is a forever issue, most easily demonstrated in 1v1 QM's. It's not just the rolling behavior. The AI next transitions to "target drone" mode, doing evasive manuevers without attacking. That happens even with ample AI fuel and/or over the AI's home base. I think the rolling behavior is now less extreme than in years past. Unfortunately improvements seem contingent on a "next" CloD iteration and I'm never clear on the specifics of those "behavior" improvements.

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

5 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

His flying apparel is totally naff... 

That's mean ? 

Come to Brazil... It is the way it is here. Everything becomes just so expensive it's prohibitive. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by 9./JG52_J-HAT

[Dagwoodyt]

On 11/3/2023 at 1:02 AM, Roover said:

Any fix ahead..

 

On 10/29/2023 at 3:59 PM, Buzzsaw said:

No, we can release the Visual Update to non-VR users... we already have non-VR users flying it as testers... and as a courtesy we offered both MP and Reddog an opportunity to look at it and test it.  We did that because they are both community leaders with a lot of experience in analyzing and evaluating the game... we consider their comments to be valuable to the development.  We also have given access to the members of our normal Beta Tester group.

 

But we don't want to release the VR Beta to the general 2D community until we have a working implementation of Speedtree.  Once that is in the VR Beta and working properly, then we will look at offering access to the general community.  But anyone getting access would be expected to test according to our requests... it would not be for Tourists or Looky-loo's who just want to cruise by without actually providing useful feedback.  ?

 

On 10/29/2023 at 4:13 PM, Buzzsaw said:

All the normal requirements for Beta testers would be in effect while the VR Beta is in development.

 

The VR Beta is a Beta.

 

"...we will look at offering access to the general community."

"...it would not be for Tourists or Looky-loo's"

 

As you are not a member of the excluded classes described above you might be able to get VR on-boarded now or when we are permitted "general community" access. Of course the requirements for "general community" access will be identical to those stipulated for the current "private beta" access. Good luck!

[Lorena_Scout]

7 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

His flying apparel is totally naff... 

haha this is an open project for people to start enjoying flying at not much cost.

 

here is the link

 

https://forum.adrenaline.com.br/threads/cockpit-de-pvc-banco-de-carro.676948/

Edited November 4, 2023 by Lorena_Scout

[Snowdon]

[Trooper117]

That cat is doing a good job of slowing the rate of fire down... extra milk for him later.

[Feldgrun]

In my humble opinion, AI "stunt pilot" reaction is the worst feature of this game and needs to be fixed first. VR is great, beautiful skies with lifelike clouds are fantastic. However, if the Blenheim is flying like a fighter, or the 109 is spinning like a pinwheel inches above the channel waves, it's unrealistic and distracts from the game more than anything else. 

[Gunfreak]

21 hours ago, Feldgrun said:

In my humble opinion, AI "stunt pilot" reaction is the worst feature of this game and needs to be fixed first. VR is great, beautiful skies with lifelike clouds are fantastic. However, if the Blenheim is flying like a fighter, or the 109 is spinning like a pinwheel inches above the channel waves, it's unrealistic and distracts from the game more than anything else. 

True, but I'm afraid if they remove that. The AI will be too easy.

 

Clod is by far the ww2 sim that makes you work the hardest foe a kill. DCS isn't very hard. And in IL2, you can usually become an ace on every mission you fly.

 

It is frustrating when Me110s outfly a Hurricane and even a spitfire. But it's not very realistic the other way around when Fw190 decide they are gonna turn fight a spitfire.

 

I'm personally looking forward to struggling against the Fw190 in my MkVb in clod.

 

I do hope the unrealistic AI movement get fixed. But I don't want it fixed if it turns clod into another shot e'm up sim.

Even with the insane AI and my bad shooting, I have 6 confirmed, 1 probable and 4 damaged in the Cliffs over Dover campaign in 11 missions.

That's still an unrealistic number.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Waiting to see how the FW190A fares against Spitfire. If any indication is that it outclassed Spitfire Mk.Vb by a wide margin in all areas except sustained turns should make it a beast. Johnnie Johnson vividly describes encounters with the Fockes in his book. And now we see how it will roll compared to other sims..

[Gunfreak]

6 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

Waiting to see how the FW190A fares against Spitfire. If any indication is that it outclassed Spitfire Mk.Vb by a wide margin in all areas except sustained turns should make it a beast. Johnnie Johnson vividly describes encounters with the Fockes in his book. And now we see how it will roll compared to other sims..

Yes. It wasn't invulnerable of course, quite a few got shot down over Dieppe. 

But yes, should be very hard to handle in a straight up fight. If it behaves like the 109 in clod. Almost always keeping to the boom and zoom.

[Feldgrun]

10 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

True, but I'm afraid if they remove that. The AI will be too easy.

 

Clod is by far the ww2 sim that makes you work the hardest foe a kill. DCS isn't very hard. And in IL2, you can usually become an ace on every mission you fly.

 

It is frustrating when Me110s outfly a Hurricane and even a spitfire. But it's not very realistic the other way around when Fw190 decide they are gonna turn fight a spitfire.

 

I'm personally looking forward to struggling against the Fw190 in my MkVb in clod.

 

I do hope the unrealistic AI movement get fixed. But I don't want it fixed if it turns clod into another shot e'm up sim.

Even with the insane AI and my bad shooting, I have 6 confirmed, 1 probable and 4 damaged in the Cliffs over Dover campaign in 11 missions.

That's still an unrealistic number.

 

What would fix that is if the AI did a better job fighting with a wingman. As in 1946, when I'm chasing a P-40 that is diving, then suddenly levels out with his wingman on my 6 ready to shoot me up. I understand having to "work" for a "kill" but if the idea is to simulate realistic WWII combat, it's unrealistic if the Bf-110 is moving like a twisting rollercoaster with his wingman wandering off in the distance. I miss the "get him off me" or "I'll be right there" AI comments in 1946 which were followed by corresponding action.

[BraveSirRobin]

13 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Clod is by far the ww2 sim that makes you work the hardest foe a kill.

That’s because the Clod AI cheats and the AI FM is roughly equivalent to a UFO.

[Snowdon]

[HazMatt]

I'm new here and wandering around lost trying to find out when VR will be available. Can somebody please point me in the right direction?

[Enceladus828]

2 hours ago, HazMatt said:

I'm new here and wandering around lost trying to find out when VR will be available. Can somebody please point me in the right direction?

For sure by the end of this year: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/754530/view/5481502021544717526

[HazMatt]

Thanks for the info. I thought the VR and the DLC were separate. Is the VR release tied to this release meaning the VR won't be available until the DLC is released?

 

I thought that I read somewhere that there was testing going on with the current game.

[21.Gr.CT.Ludovisi]

I really don't understand how works the vr beta access now... if I buy tobruk dlc is the access 100% guaranteed? 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

10 hours ago, 21.Gr.CT.Ludovisi said:

I really don't understand how works the vr beta access now... if I buy tobruk dlc is the access 100% guaranteed? 

 

 

Sorry, apparently we can no longer apply for the closed VR beta:

 

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

On 11/22/2023 at 5:11 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

That’s because the Clod AI cheats and the AI FM is roughly equivalent to a UFO.

The AI uses the same Flight Model as the Human aircraft, it does not cheat.

 

The only aspect of AI flight which differs is they are not subject to overheat... but since they will never exceed the normal time limits of rpm/boost... they wouldn't overheat anyway.

[Dagwoodyt]

42 minutes ago, Buzzsaw said:

The only aspect of AI flight which differs is they are not subject to overheat

I've always wondered at the length of time AI can do all sorts of amazing acrobatics and all the while spewing vapors!

[BraveSirRobin]

42 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I've always wondered at the length of time AI can do all sorts of amazing acrobatics and all the while spewing vapors!

I always wondered how the AI always knew exactly when to maneuver when it was about to die.  But it doesn’t cheat.  So it was just one amazing coincidence after another.  

[Buzzsaw]

4 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I've always wondered at the length of time AI can do all sorts of amazing acrobatics and all the while spewing vapors!

They are subject to a punctured radiator running out of fluids... which then kills the engine.

 

Also oil leaks, engine damage etc.

 

Only thing they won't do is run their engines too long and overheat.  Humans are allowed to overheat if they want to risk it, AI are not.

 

And plenty of human pilots who get punctured rads do exactly the same thing... staying and fighting till their engine quits.

3 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I always wondered how the AI always knew exactly when to maneuver when it was about to die.  But it doesn’t cheat.  So it was just one amazing coincidence after another.  

AI maneuver to avoid being hit based on their Awareness and Vision ratings.  (value between 1-10....  there are 10 skill levels for AI... most players leave the skill levels at generic values, i.e. Rookie/Average/Veteran/Ace, but they can be set wherever the mission builder wants)

 

If the mission builder sets awareness and vision high, then the AI will vigorously maneuver to avoid being shot and will react as the player brings his guns to bear.

 

If the mission builder sets these values low, then the AI will not notice a hostile aircraft approaching for a shot.

 

Up to the mission builder.

[BENKOE]

Hello Buzzsaw, does this also apply to non-flyable aircraft?

 

12 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

The AI uses the same Flight Model as the Human aircraft, ... ...

 

[nachinus]

On 2/16/2024 at 7:19 AM, Buzzsaw said:

If the mission builder sets awareness and vision high, then the AI will vigorously maneuver to avoid being shot and will react as the player brings his guns to bear.

 

If the mission builder sets these values low, then the AI will not notice a hostile aircraft approaching for a shot.

 

Up to the mission builder.

 

Is there any randomness or variable probability based on position? I mean: will the 10 skill level guy ALWAYS know where the enemy is and evade perfectly no matter what? 

[Dagwoodyt]

6 hours ago, nachinus said:

 

Is there any randomness or variable probability based on position? I mean: will the 10 skill level guy ALWAYS know where the enemy is and evade perfectly no matter what? 

This is easy enough to test with 1v1 quick mission in the FMB. Another thing you might consider is to check whether setting your wingie at 10/Ace will help you in a 2v2 DF.

[Koziolek]

On 2/16/2024 at 2:29 AM, Buzzsaw said:

The AI uses the same Flight Model as the Human aircraft

That's good to know. But it also means I have a lot to learn. I was trying to do 180 roll in Bf-110 in half a second and I don't even come close. So what am I doing wrong?

 

Apart from even trying ?

[Feldgrun]

On 2/16/2024 at 3:19 PM, Buzzsaw said:

AI maneuver to avoid being hit based on their Awareness and Vision ratings.  (value between 1-10....  there are 10 skill levels for AI...

 

What is the standard AI setting in the Single Player, Quick Mission games? Maybe level 8-9? 

I haven't tried yet to create my own missions. It looks far too complicated. 

[Dagwoodyt]

3 hours ago, Feldgrun said:

 

What is the standard AI setting in the Single Player, Quick Mission games? Maybe level 8-9? 

I haven't tried yet to create my own missions. It looks far too complicated. 

That is exactly the problem. What is needed is a mission builder in which AI settings are user selectable. At present it seems necessary to save a quick mission under a new name, then locate the folder to which it is saved, then copy the mission from saved location into the "missions" folder. After that you open it in the FMB and see (A). In order to figure out what "Different" means it's necessary to change the skill setting to "Custom" and click on the "..." box to find the actual skill settings (B). Next open "Group Properties" for the opposing side (C) and do the same (D). In this example there are different settings for each side. Certainly some skills are more critical than others , but exactly what the weighting is for each skill is, to my knowledge, undefined.

 

[Dawson]

Pilot attributes description available here: https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3543201/Dummies_guide_to_skill_setting.html#Post3543201

 

Changing them is quick and easy once you understand them by editing the mission's .mis file with a text editor.

[HazMatt]

The thing I find interesting is how the AI seem to "see" you when you approach them from their low 6 when the AI is in a plane that doesn't have the ability to see low 6 well and the AI makes evasive maneuvers.

[Dagwoodyt]

42 minutes ago, Dawson said:

Pilot attributes description available here: https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3543201/Dummies_guide_to_skill_setting.html#Post3543201

 

Changing them is quick and easy once you understand them by editing the mission's .mis file with a text editor.

Nice find! A "Golden Oldie" from 2012(?). It doesn't look like mission builders are using the "special mix".

[Rei-sen]

On 2/15/2024 at 5:29 PM, Buzzsaw said:

The AI uses the same Flight Model as the Human aircraft, it does not cheat.

Yes, for sure!

 

 

[Feldgrun]

Yep, that's what you get for trying to fight a stunt pilot. ?