Bf 109 F - MG 17

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

Shouldn't the MG 17 be discplaced against eachother in the early 109 variants ?

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Nice spot Zimmi!

 

 

Though you have just conformed to the internet sterotype of the rivet counting over zealous flight sim nerd(just like me).

[[JG54]Vyper]

The port gun should be set forward the width of the ammunition chute.

 

Meh. The trailer is just CGI eye candy. I mean if the MG and cannon fire is even half that big&bright in the game, I won't be able to hit anything..

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

It is GCI, but it has also been stated that the models used for this trailer were actually game models.

 

 

Nice spot Zimmi!

 

 

Though you have just conformed to the internet sterotype of the rivet counting over zealous flight sim nerd(just like me).

 

Doin my very best sir 

Edited July 30, 2013 by I/JG27_Zimmi

[[JG54]Vyper]

Tried to edit this in but I guess it timed out:

 

 

109E1 with DB601 removed showing MG17 offset.

 

[OBT-Psycho]

come on guys, I know we are all concerned about the accuracy of the models, but this is not a priority. Even if it remains like this, will it prevent you to enjoy the sim?

 

Rivet counting is evil man...

Edited July 30, 2013 by OBT-Psychopoak

[csThor]

And while we're at it - is the Zündschaltkasten going to be standard in the Bf 109? Because, historically, it was only built into aircraft that were flying fighter-bomber missions and only as long as they needed it.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Rivet counting over zealous obsessive internet flight sim nut jobs....lol...love it. 

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

If  BoS claims to be one of the most  realistic WW2 flight sims on the  market (particular considering  the argumentation of very few but highly detailed aircraft), then I have to admint, expect such accuracy.  And in my eyes, it is not rivet counting, it is a mechanical feature of a plane or certain variations of it, which I refer to. The same applies to for instance the "Schusszähler" ( see http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/836-schusszahler-ammonition-counter/ ) or the Zündschaltkasten as Thor mentioned it.

 

edit:

 

I think such details are by far not the most difficult things to figure out in the process of aircraft implementation. I can imagine the FM and DM development to be of higher complexity and thus one should actually be able to avoid  or fix such mistakes without spending too much time. Basically  that's what we're all here for. A major objective of this forum is also information sharing. If there are people with knowledge about mechanics and history (nome but plenty of others who do such research for many years now), then they must (at least in my eyes) point out differences and mistakes. It should be more than just commenting screenshots and videos with "wow amazing, I love these graphic effects" or "that skin looks awesome". Please also keep an eye on the historical and mechanical details!

Edited July 30, 2013 by I/JG27_Zimmi

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

Zimmi, im not complaining! i want the same attention to detail as you and csThor and im pleased we have you guys to notice these things.

 

But to "others" we must seem rather odd.

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

I understand that for some people it might look like rivet counting, but would people honestly take this one for an accurate P-47 ?

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

That 

 

Zimmi, im not complaining! i want the same attention to detail as you and csThor and im pleased we have you guys to notice these things.

 

But to "others" we must seem rather odd.

I think that would be an understatement, if any one of my IRL mates or coworkers saw me in the basement in front of all gadgets 

and with a baseballcap on my head looking all around me they'd think i'd gone nutters 

[DD_bongodriver]

I thought only the guns were offset but the gun ports were symmetrical with only the visible part of the gun barrels showing any offset.

 

Ignore me, I can see the trailer pic showing no offset in the guns.....minor 3d issue which a developer can fix in 2 seconds.

Edited July 30, 2013 by DD_bongodriver

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 The offset of MG17's was due the ammo feeding system in Bf109E, F and G-2/4. With the MG17 guns installed the ammo was fed from BETWEEN the guns. Thus it needed the offset to make room for the feeding system. In Bf109G-6 the MG131 ammo feed was done from outboard the guns hence the "Beule" or humps on later Bf109's and guns had no offset. Interestingly Adolf Galland's specially armed Bf109 had only very small bulges when he had tested MG131 on his Bf109F. All these details should be visible if the dev team really has the blueprints available thus a no-brainer to model correctly.

[SOLIDKREATE]

<~~~~rivet counter and factory markings nazi!

[ShamrockOneFive]

Good catch! I'm all for a reasonable level of rivet counting. Its what makes these games a significant cut above a more arcade like experience.

[leitmotiv]

LOL that P47 looks bad with guns like on picture

 

i hope its photoedited not the real thing

Edited July 30, 2013 by Yaklover

[gavagai]

I understand that for some people it might look like rivet counting, but would people honestly take this one for an accurate P-47 ?

 

Definitely not.

 

Very nice catch by the OP if it turns out to be the same 3d model that is in the sim.  I've also wondered why there isn't the bullet proof glass cover on the 109F-4 canopy, it seems?

[DB605]

  I've also wondered why there isn't the bullet proof glass cover on the 109F-4 canopy, it seems?

 

If you mean external windscreen armour, it is there indeed. Just look little bit closer

[FTC_Karaya]

A better view of the displaced MGs in an Emil's cowling

 

[LukeFF]

come on guys, I know we are all concerned about the accuracy of the models, but this is not a priority. Even if it remains like this, will it prevent you to enjoy the sim?

 

Rivet counting is evil man...

 

Come on, can we please stay away from posting such replies?  You may not like his criticism, but it's a valid one and one which the devs may take notice of.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I assume things like this will be picked up by testers in alpha/beta testing and corrected.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I assume things like this will be picked up by testers in alpha/beta testing and corrected.

 

Yep, that's our job come September

[SOLIDKREATE]

My job in September as well!

[WklinkTomCofield]

Come on, can we please stay away from posting such replies?  You may not like his criticism, but it's a valid one and one which the devs may take notice of.

I agree, it is a minor problem but one that should be relatively easy to fix.  No one expects an uber level of polish in early pre-alpha versions but this is the kind of stuff most devs want to hear from in the early phases of development.  Trust me, it is better heard now than after the game is released.

[Jason_Williams]

The guns are indeed staggered in the game. I just checked it.

 

Jason

[[JG54]Vyper]

The guns are indeed staggered in the game. I just checked it.

 

Jason

Thanks for appeasing us air nerds.

 

[WklinkTomCofield]

Thanks for appeasing us air nerds.

 

Oh, I'm sure more will be found. 

 

It was so much easier when the games looked like Aces over Europe.  Rivet counters couldn't find any rivets to count.

[Rodolphe]

...

 

 

It is GCI, but it has also been stated that the models used for this trailer were actually game models.

 

Not so about  the Stuka.

 

 

...

[Rodolphe]

...

 

 Look at the shape of the spinner, the radiator and definitely the engine cowling left hand top device (filter ??) on the GCI Stuka E, E for Ersatz.

 

...

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

Yup, the Ju 87 has already been discussed somehere else. I unfortunately can't remember whether it was in this forum or anywhere else. At least i found it here http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/800-so-whats-score-trailer/?hl=trailer

 

Anyway, I'm glad that this little error as already fixed.

[OBT-Psycho]

Come on, can we please stay away from posting such replies?  You may not like his criticism, but it's a valid one and one which the devs may take notice of.

 

don't get me wrong on this comment, I don't disagree with his criticism. But I am used to this kind of comments on hobby forums, and usually this kind of little detail leads to disclaim the entire model despite the overall quality. And this behaviour makes me sad

 

be sure that I will try to spot these details once the beta out, but it is way too soon to judge the quality of the sim, especially considering that's a commercial stuff.

 

So, are we ok man?

[Graawl]

To me, it seems the video artist used an older version of the 3D models, maybe a first draft from the 3D modelers.

 

The video was probably ready for some time before we saw it, and video editing takes time... a lot of time.

Cheers to the editor, there is a lot of "energy" in his video !

 

But anyway who needs a trailer when we'll soon get hour-long live gameplay videos ? 

 

 

Rivet counters* will have their share of meat to feast on !           

 

 

 

*I personaly don't like this pejorative expression. If they are not too overcoming, the guys with knowledge and attention to detail can be of great use.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Graawl

[Buffo002]

I use a translator. So it is true that it depends on the details, but for me it is important to make the game fair that the game was not mindless shooting (Arcada) but realistic flight simulator. And Mr. Zimmi, this video is a trailer (trailer) for a new game. There is not one shot of the flight model (of the game), which is used in the game and that is definitely still in a development ... but the truth is that it depends on the detail, but do not judge something still did not work and still is going to release its ..  Buffin

Edited July 31, 2013 by Buffo002

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

I did not intend to judge anything and I'm well aware of the fact that this is still far aware from being a release candidate. I just pointed out something, that in my eyes does represent a minor but nonetheless crucial detail that is not correct.

As I said before, this forum is supposed to be more than just praising outstanding graphic effects. A certain goal is to spot bugs and minor issues and then report it to the devs. If we do it right now or in autumn / winter, does matter in my eyes What we can do now, means reduced work load later. I've been in this online flight sim community for more than 13 years now and I have seen a couple of good and bad development steps. If you spot something that might be not correct, then report it! We can then probably reduce the work that has to be done in a later progress, (if small modifications probably imply a couple of more changes). Now if we can't evaluate the beta game at the moment (speaking of FM, DM, gameplay, graphic erros, etc.) we nonetheless can comment actual development impressions. The devs might be aware of these issue we report, but they also might be not...

 

One thing I don't like it being called rivet counter if the argumentation is well justified as I could demonstrate with the P-47 example. That's why I also argued with the aspiration that this game and the team behind it, has made. BoS should be and must be a milestone for the next couple of years in flight simulator genre as IL-2 has been in the last decade. As for me the the policy behind the distribution (pre-release versions and so on) does imply that the devs want our support to achieve this goal. So gents beside being impressed by new videos, screenshots and announced game features we should still retain a critical look. Furthermore, if we can refer to data as manuals and test-records, why don't use them to improve the game, enhance the grade of detail. Isn't it what we all want? This ain't supposed to be some arcardish game, stuck at some undefined point in between half-reality and fiction.

Edited July 31, 2013 by I/JG27_Zimmi

[Buffo002]

Yes okay, criticism should be and warn of mistakes, I just pointed out that it was video trailer. I have not seen much video models (detail) directly to what should be in the game. So I thought, otherwise I agree with the criticism and notification of errors or what is not good so it's okay, I'm a supporter of realism.  Buffin

Edited July 31, 2013 by Buffo002

[Panzerlang]

Oh, I'm sure more will be found. 

 

It was so much easier when the games looked like Aces over Europe.  Rivet counters couldn't find any rivets to count.

 

One was lucky if one could find one's frikkin' airfield.

[Pierre64]

...

 

 Look at the shape of the spinner, the radiator and definitely the engine cowling left hand top device (filter ??) on the GCI Stuka E, E for Ersatz.

 

...

Not to mention the stabilizer strut...

Ju 87D 3D models in trailer and ingame screenshots look different,... Fortunately.

[JtD]

I think the muzzle flashes are way bigger concern than the few cm of barrel length. The MG 17, like most cowl installations in Luftwaffe aircraft, came with flash suppressors. This made the flash from these guns basically invisible to the naked eye in daylight, whereas the trailer shows flashes big enough to blind the pilot. I hope this is just a compromise to advertise BoS to the Hollywood and History channel crowds, and that we will not see it in the actual program.