Progression

[Heywooood]

Ditto.

 

I'll be happy if the first offering is good enough to buy, then have the P40 available in the next set of aircraft/maps.

This - with the exception being that I already bought it...but aside from that - same here

[BigC208]

Stay with the Russian front. Finland/Poland/early Barbarossa, Kuban and Kursk will round out that part of the world within 3 years. The business model may not be condusive to new Theatres with earlier introduced aircraft. That's why I expect the Pacific (carier) or North Africa with mostly new planesets after Russia is done. After that maybe a tripple release for Western Europe 39-40/41-43/44-45. What I'm hoping for is that there will be a few, maybe not so popular AI aircraft, to fill out each theatres planeset. Just for the sake of history. That's one of the reasons (the other is production speed)I wanted theatre sets to begin with. Otherwise you just end up with an online popularity contest. Charge $60-$90 per theatre and $15-$20 for extra planes depending on complexity and size. This way there should be a good revenue stream every 6-9 months when a new theatre is released. Additional aircraft will provide revenue and excitement between major releases. The quality of work done in RoF and the popularity of WWII makes me think the future looks bright for the new Il2 series.

[Recon]

I'd like to see a North Africa map. For 1942/early 1943, most of the German fighters and vehicles are already available? So only need to work on Allied and Italian planes. If a lend-lease Hurri or P-40 is in the works, it will fit in nicely as well!

 

+1   That is my first choice as well.  

[Freycinet]

I'd love to see the Med. Hasn't ever been done. Fabulous aerial conflicts over gorgeous terrain (Sicily, Malta, apart from the desert), US planes and forces there, which should be good for sales... Ship attacks!

[01Wingchaps]

YEARS ago I was severely disappointed when Dynamix/Sierra came close to a flight sim based on North Africa, then closed their doors before completion.

 

Sierra blew a Babylon 5 sim at that time, too...   (Babylon 5 is the best science fiction TV series ever released, IMO, for those who don't recognize the reference).

 

At any rate, the aircraft paint jobs were very nice, it was a unique setting, I think it would be very cool. Well, I mean it would be very nice...

 

Of course, I tend toward the early war in many sims, a Blitzkrieg package, or Battle of France, might be interesting.

 

Crete and Malta as well.

 

Please not late war, though. Aside from the fact that the excellent engineering of the ME-262 is betrayed by the cheap alloys Germany was down to using, the idea of flying a Luftwaffe fighter into a bazillion Flying Fortresses doesn't do much for me... 

[BMW801]

Kursk would be a great next step for both fighters and ground attack aircraft. Many of the aircraft involved are already planned for the premium preorder, and it would be a good way for the developers to gradually expand the sim with a few more aircraft and more types and numbers of ground targets, as well as later models of existing aircraft. The magnitude and ferocity of the battle could be much better represented with BoS as opposed to the original IL2.

[Volkoff]

Kuban or Kursk would be great.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Well, it has been a few days since I've been able to post. Finkeren has some interesting ideas but I'm gonna give it a go here at counter-pointing.

 

The Eastern Front had, of course, some of the biggest aerial battles in history. I, however, would never consider saying it has more to offer in terms of intensity and variety than any other theatre, especially when compared to the Pacific - island warfare, carrier ops, clashing navies, inline and radial engines, huge expanses of ocean, long range bombing and ridiculous real life furballs. I think the Pacific gives the east a solid run for the money even if I am a much bigger fan of the air war in the west.

 

As to the two games mentioned: IL2 was a hit in the east before it ever made it to our humble shores but how much of a commercial success was it until it had a broader audience? And not buying a DCS Mustang probably has as much to do with the ability to find a worthy opponent in that sim more than anything to do with the iconic and hardly unremarkable aircraft itself. If I wanted to do pattern work in a P-51 I'd probably buy an A2A for FSX. As to who is thinking they want their iconic aircraft, I think it is a larger percentage of the community than l'il 'ol me.

 

Unremarkable aircraft? What other aircraft can BNZ, dogfight in a pinch with a capable pilot and fly over 800 nm with unprecedented visibility from the cockpit?  (BTW, I'm a 190 guy at heart  )

 

The Sino-Japanese war is a non-starter. There is simply no money in it, even if you include the AVG chapters. It is a side note to history as far as the airwar is concerned. I have not discounted the Asian market at all. I play a bit of Battlefield and there are a large number of AsiaPac servers.  I think the war in the east and the Pacific will do well with our brothers simming over there. Trying to sell a sim to the Chinese depicting a time period when they were routinely abused by their aggressing neighbor is going to be a hard sell. The same reason a dedicated Polish theatre is unlikely. A greater PTO release where they can fight as roughly equals probably has more promise. But that's just an opinion.

 

But I digress, as the OP was to see where the sim should go and where I'd take it if someone handed me the reigns. There are two pretty solid camps here. Stay in the East or hop about some. I'm still in favor of some hopping about as I think it keeps the game from getting stale. Variety is the spice of life?! I wouldn't want to force my eastern brothers into the west or the pacific for three years before entering Stalingrad any more than I'd like to see the western boys forced to stay on the far side of the Oder for a similar time frame.

Edited August 5, 2013 by HerrMurf

[BMW801]

If the developers decided to finish up in the east first, a good way to organize the expansions, in my opinion, would be the way Christer Bergstrom organized it with his four volume work covering the air war on the eastern front: Barbarossa, Stalingrad, Kursk, and Bagration to Berlin.

[Finkeren]

I see where you come from Herrmurf. I disagree on some points like the prospect of a Sino-Japanese theatre sim being unmarketable, and we better let the Whole discussion about the P-51s merits be  I do agree with your run down of the qualities of an Eastern Front setting vs. PTO, and while I generally like flying long missions and have played just about every single PTO sim since "Pacific Strike" back in 1994 I must say, that I don't particularly enjoy finding my bearings over huge expanses of empty ocean. If we are to fly hundreds of miles per mission, I'd much rather do it over Western Europe TBH.

 

I used to share your enthusiam for the Western theatre myself, but I must say, the more I learn about the "war in the East", the less significant and exciting the West seems. That's just my personal oppinion.

 

Back to topic: I'm definately in the "finish what you started" camp. Overall I like variety. To me the single greatest thing about the old IL2 was the mind blowing variety of planes, ground objects and maps, especially after the release of Forgotten Battles, which also gave us what I still consider one of the best dynamic campaigns ever put in a flight sim (I hope for BoS to blow it out of the Water, because it does seem kinda simplistic today). After years and years of development the Eastern Theatre ended up being nearly complete in terms of planeset, and to this day, I still from time to time pick up a campaign to try out planes, I haven't flown much before. It's quite enjoyable to be able to go through a true "career" and, for instance, fly just about every model of Bf 109 or Yakolev or Lavochkin etc.

 

I do not expect near the same number of flyable aircraft from BoS. After all these planes are modeled in much more detail and are thoroughly tested to higher standards before being released. Still I would like to see the planeset expanded well beyond the initial handfulls, and be able to fly throughout the theatre for the entire four years of war, before we move on to other pastures.

 

That being said: If the devs were to abandon the Eastern Front in favour of a less dangerous place, I'd prefer the MTO over all others, as we have practically only seen this done in mods before.

[Uufflakke]

This thread is similar to this one.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/248-poll-expansion-modules/

[Guest deleted@1562]

In my opinion we will see "Stalingrad: The Battle Begins" next.

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

The Med next pretty pls for 100% selfish reasons, i want a 109 in desert camo.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Furbs

[SYN_Ricky]

Personally I'd prefer if they stayed focused on the eastern front a bit before moving elsewhere

[Panzerlang]

Personally I'd prefer if they stayed focused on the eastern front a bit before moving elsewhere

 

This ^. They already pulled the lack-of-cohesion stunt with RoF when they did the channel map and a pair of crappy sea-planes instead of finishing the western front properly by completing the critical planes pack.

 

If they follow the same path with BoS we'll see the med with Galdiators while Stalingrad still lacks the Ju88.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

My personal preference would be North Africa/Mediterranean after Stalingrad. It would be a good opportunity to add JU-88, Bf-110 and some Italian models to axis and at least the German planes could be used in Eastern front also. Also the western models could be used to supplement VVS (P-40, Hurricane etc). Otherwise it could end up having all the major axis planes out already when the first expansion to west comes out and imo that would be a bit boring.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

@uufflakke - it was born from that thread. I was unsatisfied with the poll and wanted to discuss the progression in greater detail.

@Finkeren - I was worried this would devolve into something personal when I responded to you directly. I'm glad we were able to keep this discussion fairly academic. Though I disagree with you on some points I respect your opinion.

 

I'll up vote your post when I get home. I can't figure out how to do it from my phone.

 

So, S~

 

Your Friend,

 

HerrMurf

[Volkoff]

Personally I'd prefer if they stayed focused on the eastern front a bit before moving elsewhere

+1 I am in seventh heaven. I would like to spend some years exploring a variety of Soviet and lend lease machines. While I will certainly buy Axis machines to support the team, I can' t wait for the inclusion of machines like the Yak Mig 3, I-15bis, I-16, La-5FN, Yak 3, Soviet modified P-39, and P-40. Clearly, not all of these machines fit into the Stalingrad timeframe, so I would like to see maps made so I can can obtain these rides.

Edited August 5, 2013 by MishaJames

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Never fear. I think you'll get the east for a couple of years before they move on. There is still much to explore there beyond Stalingrad, both in the air and on the ground.

[slm]

+1 I am in seventh heaven. I would like to spend some years exploring a variety of Soviet and lend lease machines. While I will certainly buy Axis machines to support the team, I can' t wait for the inclusion of machines like the Yak Mig 3, I-15bis, I-16, La-5FN, Yak 3, Soviet modified P-39, and P-40. Clearly, not all of these machines fit into the Stalingrad timeframe, so I would like to see maps made so I can can obtain these rides.

 

If Barbarossa was the next game after BoS, you could have useful planes like Bf-110, Bf-109E, Hs-123, Brewster, Fiat G-50 for the blue. I-16, I-153, Mig3, Sb-2M, P-40 for the red.

And some of these could be used later in Med theater later.  I think this Barbarossa game needs to include some widely useful plane types in order to be really succesful.

Edited August 5, 2013 by slm

[Volkoff]

Never fear. I think you'll get the east for a couple of years before they move on. There is still much to explore there beyond Stalingrad, both in the air and on the ground.

 

I like your thinking. I hope that the United Team feels the same way. I really want to stay in the East for at least a couple of years. I would like to fill out the Soviet end of things, before moving on to the West, the Pacific Ocean, North Africa, Mediterranean, or elsewhere.

 

 MJ

 

 

Edited August 5, 2013 by MishaJames

[71st_AH_Hooves]

As I count it right now there are 36 out or soon the bout planes in RoF. It's been out for what 4 years? So I'm guessing were going to be aroun there with the il2 series in that time. So what planes/ theaters can be done getting away with that number of planes? As was stated before, I want alot of theaters too, but these planes take time. So they sure going to have to choose carefully.

[Volkoff]

As I count it right now there are 36 out or soon the bout planes in RoF. It's been out for what 4 years? So I'm guessing were going to be aroun there with the il2 series in that time. So what planes/ theaters can be done getting away with that number of planes? As was stated before, I want alot of theaters too, but these planes take time. So they sure going to have to choose carefully.

 

It is hard to say what the United Team is capable of, really. The team is already up to a pre-Alpha state for IL2 BOS, after only eight or nine months of development time. I can't speak for anyone else, but that accomplishment seems fairly remarkable to me. 

 

MJ

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Only 36 huh?

If the plane sets are 6-8 per launch in addition to existing aircraft we're gonna be here  a while. I think they will need to keep churning out small to medium aircraft sets between major releases. I'm down for ten bucks a plane if there is a full release and plane set per year.

 

I think, as long as this series takes off as we all suspect it will, a couple of things can happen. They can increase staffing a bit and decrease their launch times for future products. And secondly, as a result of the first point, they will be able to explore more theatres. Lastly, they can always release plane packs with just a map or two in between full theatre launches as well. Keep the revenue flowing and introduce sub-variants or new aircraft. Ground object and vehicles need to be upped as the series moves forward as well but I'd like to see them as part of full releases or plane sets. You know, an SU-76 and an HS 129 or a Panzer II Luchs (oddly my favorite scout tank) and a P-63 bundled.

 

I looked at my progression pretty closely with an eye to reusing existing aircraft while moving forward into new theatres. Different skins, slight mods for some, and new maps to keep things fresh.  

[Bearcat]

So how long do you guys think they should take between new modules.. because 12 years won't cut it.. I am curious to see what their plans are.. I would not be surprised of we saw new modules every 2- 4 months.

[BigC208]

So how long do you guys think they should take between new modules.. because 12 years won't cut it.. I am curious to see what their plans are.. I would not be surprised of we saw new modules every 2- 4 months.

I doubt that Bearcat. It takes them 2-4 months to just release one new plane in RoF. I preorder them and most of the time I forget about it. Then 6 month later it's like I get a free airplane. WWII planes are more complex so will take longer to produce. I agree 12 years will be too much of a cycle.

Hopefully the success of BoS will allow the team to be expanded. I'm hoping for a 6-9 month (10 new flyables) theatre cycle with 2-4 airplanes in between. Should have WWII done in 5 years that way. Not sure if the same team is also working on RoF, that could slow things down significantly.

[FuriousMeow]

I doubt adding more staff will increase productivity. Having select individuals create something makes the most sense. Bringing in someone else means they would have to teach that person everything and then check their work if the output is wrong and the other person can't figure it out. Creating a sim is not a production line, it's not just nuts and bolts that this hex nut goes on this 14mm bolt and then blammo a car! It's more like Ikea where you have to figure out how to assemble this desk because they gave you the wrong hardware and if you add someone else in halfway through your building process you went from half of a desk to a bed all of a sudden that is uncomfortable and rigid and it's a desk that is now a bed because the other person had no prior knowledge of what you did and teaching them at that point would take longer than finishing it yourself.

Edited August 6, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[EAF19_Marsh]

As a relatively inexpensive / economic progression, how about a Summer / Autumn map of the BoS area as it currently stands, followed (if the team wanted to go that way) by an extension East and South? This approach seemed to work nicely for RoF and the Channel.

 

A map from Donet'sk or Taganrog would allow the early part of Blue while a (more difficult, larger) map from Kerch to Grozny / Terek River would cover the effort of Army Group A to seize the oil fields.

 

Not sure the degree of difficulty / effort this would require above adding aircraft and other features, but would allow an extension of the timeframe from summer '42 until Spring '43 for the wider Southern Area of operations while using much the same aircraft and object types.

[Panzerlang]

Whatever they do they need to release saveable .exes and files for each plane so the content we buy can be stored. I have no idea what would happen to all my RoF planes if 777 suddenly went kaput. Not that I think they will, it would just be nice to have all my shizzle safe somewhere, it amounts to a fair investment.

[DD_Arthur]

I'd love to see the Med. Hasn't ever been done. Fabulous aerial conflicts over gorgeous terrain (Sicily, Malta, apart from the desert), US planes and forces there, which should be good for sales... Ship attacks!

 

Definitely!  How about this; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Sicily  Operation Husky.  Escort carriers, RN Seafires, the Desert Airforce, etc.  Plenty of LW and Italian units.  Then if you were really ambitious you could move onto the Salerno beachheads for some Fritz X glide bomb action! 

[FuriousMeow]

Whatever they do they need to release saveable .exes and files for each plane so the content we buy can be stored. I have no idea what would happen to all my RoF planes if 777 suddenly went kaput. Not that I think they will, it would just be nice to have all my shizzle safe somewhere, it amounts to a fair investment.

 

 

The latest RoF version has all of the planes, in flyable format. It would require changes to the entire download to make it reference a local file that would just enable all of the planes you have purchased or all of them period. There are no individual plane files downloaded when the plane is purchased.

[Panzerlang]

The latest RoF version has all of the planes, in flyable format. It would require changes to the entire download to make it reference a local file that would just enable all of the planes you have purchased or all of them period. There are no individual plane files downloaded when the plane is purchased.

 

Ah, I didn't think of that. Rather obvious actually. I hereby award myself a "Duh!".

[EAF19_Marsh]

No one interested in fleshing-out 'Blue' first?

 

RoF progress included different season types for the map and then an additional map. Given the comments from developers on the work required for new aircraft and objects, this seems like a cost-effective way to move towards the Kuban and Kursk

[trumps]

Carry on with the eastern front in my opinion, with it's completion a good deal of the aircraft/ground units required for North Africa will be done during the process. then will relatively minimal effort they could add the North African Map with the balance of what is required much as they have done with RoF and the channel map. either way i am looking forward to not seeing a runstang for a very long time

[GP*]

I'd like to see them do a few key battles in each theater, one at a time. This would allow them to "fill out" each theater without hopping around all over the place, and provide a complete and consistent experience for each. Each game could have a planeset similar to BOS in number, which would allow detailed modeling of each while allowing the planeset to fill out gradually over time. Possibly something like 3 battles/games in the East, 3 in the Pacific, and 4 in Western Europe (one of which could have a Mediterranean / N Africa focus). 

 

I honestly don't see a "best" or "worst" way to do it, though -- just different ways. 

Edited August 6, 2013 by Prefontaine

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

I said my fav theater is the Med, but its prob best to have at least 1 more eastern front module before moving on.

[Finkeren]

@Finkeren - I was worried this would devolve into something personal when I responded to you directly. I'm glad we were able to keep this discussion fairly academic. Though I disagree with you on some points I respect your opinion.

Even though I sometimes get carried away, when discussing with people who are persistent, when I think they're demonstrably wrong (this isn't such a case - this is simply a difference of opinion) I would never let it get personal. Getting personal with people who I know nothing about apart from their forum names is both unproductive, childish and a waste of time.

 

Mutual respect is the only way to conduct a productive debate. 

[TetraD]

I also would like to see eastern front first, then north africa and after it pacific. 

 

1. Kuban

2. Kursk

3. Battle of Moscow

4. Leningrad/Finland/Estonia - i think Leningrad makes this interesting also for russians. Map covering area from north estonia to lake onega would be roughly 500km x 500km size, but mostly it is only forest. The new axis plane set could be Brewster B-239, Hawk 75 and MS 406. If we want some bombers Blenheim Mk I/IV does the job. Other planes we get from other theaters, like Bf-109 G6 and JU 88. And of course russian planes. We already have Pe-2 and LaGG-3 that were used on both sides.

5. North Africa

6. Pacific

7. Battle of Britain/Western front - I just don't like it 

[TJT]

The Kuban scenario is one that would bring in aircraft types that would hit well in certain....uhmmm.... selfcentric markets    .

Jokes aside, Kuban would be a very good choice for a first expansion, one that holds good scenario possibilitys along with the ability to add a varied historic and market attractiv plane set.

The summer/fall textures for the earlier part of the Stalingrad maps could be a "minor" first addon.

[Original_Uwe]

<tongue-in-cheek> A long as we avoid the USN we should be fine. So no PTO? *innocent whistling smilie here* </tongue-in-cheek>

 

 

 

:P

Oh yes, I'm so tired of this "pacific pacific pacific!" Chant.

Its freaking boring. Period.

If we see the pacific before north Africa, I will vomit.