Progression

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

So, now that the series is being seen in a very positive light, I was wondering where it should go. It seems the next likely theater will be Kuban. I like it. The theater will open up some of the better equipment for both sides and also the probability of some Lend Lease aircraft as well. But whence shall we go from there? I thought I'd take a stab at it while trying to keep the theaters fresh, appealing to both the east and west camps, adding interesting aircraft at (nearly) every turn and making 1C-777 some money along the way. These are the campaigns as I see them without any mini-packs or simple aircraft packs:

1. Stalingrad
2. Kuban
3. North Africa
4. Battle of Britain
5. War on the Periphery - AVG/Malta/Finland and maybe BoF or Spanish Civil War.
6. Mediterranean
7. Early Pacific - Pearl Harbor/Wake Island/Midway
8. Bomber Offensive '42-43 - including night ops. I need me some Lancasters and night fighters.
9. Pacific Push for the Home Islands - New Guinea to the Atomic Age (Maybe break this up into 2?)
10. End of the Reich '44-45
11. Secret Weapons of the (wait that's trademarked)
12. Korea

That's the way I'd do it. How would you?

[71st_AH_Mastiff]

good start, sounds good to me..

[352ndOscar]

I would think "Kursk" would have to be #3 on that list...... Il2 Sturmovik could never fully pull that off because of the two map issues. With the bigger map capability, more/higher object counts and BoS atmosphere, the air war over the Kursk Salient could finally be brought out in the open; not to mention the ground war, which is the reason for having air power in the first place.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I think, if Kursk is to be it's own release, it'd be more like number nine for a number of reasons. Firstly, I was trying to keep the theaters fresh. Not repeating east/west/pacific for more than two releases in a row. And lastly the number of aircraft to introduce. I think you lose some interest if you stay in any one arena for too long. Reading other posts, people really want North Africa, Med and New Guinea. The way I approached it was each release either 1. introduces aircraft which can be used in the next release or 2. introduces aircraft which start a new fork. Kursk violates a couple of those rules.

 

So, 9. Kursk and move the rest down a release?

 

I'm good with the suggestion if you can live with the position.

Edited July 30, 2013 by HerrMurf

[71st_AH_Hooves]

can you make this a POLL Murf?

 

 

And Id get to the US aircraft MUCH faster if I were in charge.  The Pacific would be my next choice.  as making a map is one of the harder parts.  Tha pacific is...............water.  Alot of water.  so getting 6-8 planes over that would be REALLY cool. 

Edited July 30, 2013 by Hooves

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Don't know how!

 

There are other polls already. I just fiddled with what I read and tweaked it like how I'd do it for the reasons stated above. Wondered what others think, if they were on the ground floor.

[csThor]

I hope they don't try to bite off more than they can chew, for starters. If it was up to me I'd go for:

 

1.) Stalingrad

2.) Kuban

3.) Kursk (this, very very very very very much! - probably in two installments and containing Kutuzov and Rumyantsev)

4.) Barbarossa/Typhoon (going back to 1941 to fill out the theme - several focal points possible here like Minsk, Smolensk etc)

5.) North Africa 1941 (depending on map size)

6.) Battle of Gazala & Capture of Tobruk 1942

7.) El Alamein 1942

8.) Tunisia 1942/43

Edited July 30, 2013 by csThor

[Heywooood]

That looks good to me either way - but I'm with csThor if I had to choose

It makes more sense to stay in the East and then North Africa and so on...but the West will get very loud in protest - wanting their (our) Mustangs and Lightnings and Corsairs

Or Spitfires Hurri's and Mossies (to go less West)

 

I would rather see it done right and in its own good time - fully develope the Eastern Front then North Africa - the Med - then the PTO and BoB, China Manchuria

But the typical US gamer wont sit still for it...sadly

Edited July 30, 2013 by Heywooood

[coldViPer]

My dream is that at some point we can see the Continuation War between Finland and the Soviet Union 

[I/JG27_Zimmi]

I'd also prefer an extended east front scenario before proceeding to other war theatres. We should stick to where we start and contiuousely extend the planes until the most important types are available, which could then perhaps be used to easy implement other scenarios.

 

I still remember some thrilling battles from almost 10 years ago above the IL-2 Kuban map. Still makes me smile. Tough fights, arduous missions and lots of fun.

Nevertheless, the I/JG27 has to be transferred to North Africa some day

Edited July 30, 2013 by I/JG27_Zimmi

[theOden]

I like your list HerrMurf. Also I think that list helps reusage of planes into the following theater.

[von_Tom]

Must confess I'd prefer Crete, Malta and the desert first, if only to get away from green fields and to be very different from the snow.

 

For Crete and Malta/Sicily the map isn't so much as it is mostly sea, and maybe some models could be taken across from CloD.  Same for the desert with the addition of some US planes like the P40, A20 etc.

 

And after the others you have the RAF leaning into Europe in 1941, the push up through Italy in '43, Cactus Air Force and others.

 

Zimmi has a good idea though - expand the planeset then other theatres can follow.  Many of the lend lease aircraft will fight right into other scenarios eg Spitfire, Hurricane, P40, A20 etc.

 

All in their own time I hope.

 

Hood

[csThor]

Quite honestly "bouncing to and fro" between theaters doesn't sound sensible to me as it totally negates any synergy effects that may merge between intra-theater releases. Besides I don't think we should expect many aircraft per release so building upon a fundament that already exists could be a  (rather logical) requirement for switching theaters. For example a fleshed out Eastern Front from 1941 to 1943 (Kursk) would greatly help a potential MTO theater as the main german types and key L&L types would be present so that work could concentrate on what is missing. Given today's market for PC games I'd rather aim low than dream of grandeur and fail spectacularly.

[6S.Manu]

I prefer to have different theatres of the same period.

 

I would like to witness the technology advance, to feel what it should be passing from a Spitfire MkI to the MkXIV, including the inner marks in progression.

 

I don't want to fly a Dora/La7 and then having to return back to early planes.

[TheBlackPenguin]

I agree with Thor about the synergy effects, so expanding on the Eastern Front maybe the way to go in the beginning. At least some of the Lend Lease planes like the P-40, Hurricane and P-39 could be modelled along with Brewster Buffaloes.

 

Another thing to consider, ROF already has a good channel map, enlarge the area enough (maybe include most of England and go as far as Berlin?) and a lot of the war in the West is then covered from '39 to '45. I don't know the map limitation in size and cost though and even if they're able to build upon it for BOS.

[FlatSpinMan]

How would you do the ETO maps though, particularly for the 8th AF missions? Hope theory find as way though.

[ATAG_Slipstream]

I think we will stay in the East for a long, long time...

[15[Span.]/JG51Costa]

I hope they don't try to bite off more than they can chew, for starters. If it was up to me I'd go for:

 

1.) Stalingrad

2.) Kuban

3.) Kursk (this, very very very very very much! - probably in two installments and containing Kutuzov and Rumyantsev)

4.) Barbarossa/Typhoon (going back to 1941 to fill out the theme - several focal points possible here like Minsk, Smolensk etc)

5.) North Africa 1941 (depending on map size)

6.) Battle of Gazala & Capture of Tobruk 1942

7.) El Alamein 1942

8.) Tunisia 1942/43

+11111111

[DD_Crash]

Lets hope that there are no "complications" with a certain US aircraft manufacturer whos name we arnt suppose to say

[csThor]

<tongue-in-cheek> A long as we avoid the USN we should be fine. So no PTO? *innocent whistling smilie here* </tongue-in-cheek>

 

 

 

    :P  

[vyyye]

Lets hope that there are no "complications" with a certain US aircraft manufacturer whos name we arnt suppose to say

There has been some earlier? How silly.

 

Anyway, I'd love for a Pacific campaign but the 'smarter' way to go would probably be to expand the Eastern front as they already started it.

[FuriousMeow]

On the back of Pacific Fighters they list the actual companies that designed and produced the aircraft, that was a huge mistake. No other company has done that or will. Even Revell's models just contain the identification of the plane leaving off who designed and produced it.

Edited July 30, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[[JG54]Vyper]

I hope they don't try to bite off more than they can chew, for starters. If it was up to me I'd go for:

 

1.) Stalingrad

2.) Kuban

3.) Kursk (this, very very very very very much! - probably in two installments and containing Kutuzov and Rumyantsev)

4.) Barbarossa/Typhoon (going back to 1941 to fill out the theme - several focal points possible here like Minsk, Smolensk etc)

5.) North Africa 1941 (depending on map size)

6.) Battle of Gazala & Capture of Tobruk 1942

7.) El Alamein 1942

8.) Tunisia 1942/43

Nice list.

[BraveSirRobin]

How many people in here will still be able to see their monitors by the time they get to step 5?

[6./ZG26_Emil]

I hope they don't try to bite off more than they can chew, for starters. If it was up to me I'd go for:

 

1.) Stalingrad

2.) Kuban

3.) Kursk (this, very very very very very much! - probably in two installments and containing Kutuzov and Rumyantsev)

4.) Barbarossa/Typhoon (going back to 1941 to fill out the theme - several focal points possible here like Minsk, Smolensk etc)

5.) North Africa 1941 (depending on map size)

6.) Battle of Gazala & Capture of Tobruk 1942

7.) El Alamein 1942

8.) Tunisia 1942/43

 

I would only like to see North Africa if the map was realistic. Having worked in Algeria and Libya for many years the map in IL2 made my eyes bleed :D

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

I, of course, am playing both the dreamer and devil's advocate here. One of the first premises, however, is that staying in any one theatre for too long will stagnate sales. That is ill advised to say the least in our niche market. Let's say each new release is on an accelerated time table and they get each done in 12 months. Some of you are staying in the east for four or five years. Mustang driver's aren't gonna wait around that long, BoB enthusiasts ain't gonna wait that long either. This list has already grown to 12+ years of development. To stay completely linear, mid-war aircraft won't even make it into the series for ten or more years. Mustangs and Dora's in fifteen?  I would expect a new engine and Il2 series 3 by then.

 

A new crowd is being courted; testosterone filled 20 somethings who will end up playing Battlefield or NCAA 14,15, 16, etc. if they lose interest. I totally welcome the potential new guys. A new generation to learn about this great history, get their feathers waxed a few times and likely develop some outstanding sim pilots to kick my @ down the road, later. The trailer was clearly aimed at drawing in a new crowd while wow'ing the rest of us.

 

The new progression:

1. Stalingrad
2. Kuban
3. North Africa
4. Battle of Britain
5. War on the Periphery - AVG/Malta/Finland/Crete and maybe BoF or Spanish Civil War.
6. Mediterranean
7. Early Pacific - Pearl Harbor/Wake Island/Midway
8. Bomber Offensive '42-43 - including night ops. I need me some Lancasters and night fighters.
9. Kursk* (352nd Oscar)
10. Pacific Push for the Home Islands - New Guinea to the Atomic Age (Maybe break this up into 2?)
11. End of the Reich '44-45
12. Secret Weapons of the (wait that's trademarked)
13. Korea

My list tries to balance interests and profitability for the best of both worlds. It is semi-linear, the only real aside is War on the Periphery - which can include Crete for you Hood. (coldViPer - Finland is already in there.) There is a fork to get the Pacific Theatre rolling too but even that is semi-linear and comes back together as the series advances.  theOden has it right, until the pacific fork aircraft from earlier series move forward - Lend Lease get moved to primary spots (North Africa/Periphery/BOB) and makes room for additional aircraft development in future titles. For instance, Kursk gets an Hs129 instead of just dropping gun pods on the Ju87's, etc. Models take skill and time to produce. Moving established models forward opens doors for additional content.

 

I'm sure Jason and company already have both tactical and strategic plans for this series but they are also pretty good about reading the forums.  Remember, this is just a discussion and I'm still curious to see where you would go if you were in the driver's seat. But read the original premise and look for a balance. I already incorporated two new ideas into my alternate world 1C-777.

 

**I realize 5,12 and 13 are most likely pipe dreams but it is a dream list after all.

Edited July 30, 2013 by HerrMurf

[FuriousMeow]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here. BoS still has to be successful.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Dream bubble, alternate universe, next..........world domination.

[352ndOscar]

Thanks for the nod HerrMurf. Based on "your" timeline, I'll be 67 before I see a Kursk add on. I'll be retired by then and will have nothing but time to enjoy flying 24/7...... LOL!

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

can you make this a POLL Murf?

 

 

And Id get to the US aircraft MUCH faster if I were in charge.  The Pacific would be my next choice.  as making a map is one of the harder parts.  Tha pacific is...............water.  Alot of water.  so getting 6-8 planes over that would be REALLY cool. 

If you know how to make it into a poll feel free to poach the list.

[smink1701]

Since many of us just visited the Battle of Britain ( ) IMHO if the team wants to sell a ton of sims the next theater should be somewhere that includes the P-51 Mustang ... Cadillac of the Sky!!! I'd buy two just for myself.

[SYN_Vander]

I'd like to see a North Africa map. For 1942/early 1943, most of the German fighters and vehicles are already available? So only need to work on Allied and Italian planes. If a lend-lease Hurri or P-40 is in the works, it will fit in nicely as well!

[Rjel]

Those theater lists all sound appealing. But unless they can be introduced every six months or so, I doubt I'd live long enough to play them all or even see them hit the marketplace.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Those theater lists all sound appealing. But unless they can be introduced every six months or so, I doubt I'd live long enough to play them all or even see them hit the marketplace.

 

 

Ditto.

 

I'll be happy if the first offering is good enough to buy, then have the P40 available in the next set of aircraft/maps.

[csThor]

I'm not sold on this bouncing between theaters. Simply put it'll introduce a rag rug of aircraft and maps which don't really go together but then I freely admit that history is my yardstick and not DF usefulness. Not to mention that I am not sure that 1C as major russian company isn't focussing primarily on their home market (which would fit my interests, BTW).

Edited July 31, 2013 by csThor

[theOden]

1C just recently lost alot of invested money in a Battle of Britain scenario so I think they are open to all kinds of different fronts.

Also, historically correct missions are up to the mission builder and not solely on the game at hand. It's pretty easy to avoid adding the FW190 to stalingrad missions if it hurts seeing it but having some "near correct" planes/units will allow mission makers to create "what if" scenarios that could be fun.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Yes, just because a new aircraft pack or full release happens doesn't mean those aircraft must be played on a particular server. Just like there will be full real, semi-historical, and all aircraft arcade-y shoot em ups. I happen to enjoy all of the above based on my mood for the day. I love flying in a squadron for full real and semi-historical. I love lone wolfing it in air quake as well. I also think, if this ship (plane) gets rolling we will get through this list, or Jason's list, in about six or seven years. More releases means more money..........means more releases.

 

I think this company is a happy marriage, so far, of east and west. I don't think they will cater to just the east for the reasons stated elsewhere in my posts. The American and western European markets can't be ignored for the game to prosper.

[Finkeren]

Honestly, I really hope the devs won't even consider moving to another theatre, before the Eastern Front has been well covered. I'd much rather have a limited scope that's done in depth, than have just 1 or 2 maps and a dozen planes for each theatre.

 

A good progression to me would be:

 

1. Stalingrad (wouldn't have been my first choice, but here we go)

2. Barbarossa

3. Typhoon + counteroffensive

4. Winter War + Continuation War + Leningrad Offensives

5. Kuban

6. Rzhev

7. Chrimean + Black Sea

8. Kursk + Lower Dnieper

9. Bagration

10. Estonia + Baltic

11. Romania + Hungary

12. Prussia + Berlin

13. Murmansk

 

After these I would like to see the sim move to a theatre that, to my knowledge, has never been portrayed in a flight sim: The Sino-Japanese War and Chinese Civil War. There is a huge potential for modeling an extremely wide selection of aircraft and very varied maps.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

But would it sell? It's really the bottom line.

 

Sino and other relatively unknown/fringe theaters were, to the best of my knowledge, mostly user made content in the original series. I don't think it's realistic to expect such things from the producers. But I like the passion.

[Finkeren]

But would it sell? It's really the bottom line.

 

Sino and other relatively unknown/fringe theaters were, to the best of my knowledge, mostly user made content in the original series. I don't think it's realistic to expect such things from the producers. But I like the passion.

Honestly, why wouldn't it sell?

 

For the first couple of years the old IL2 did rather well without moving outside of the Eastern Front. Forgotten Battles was massively popular despite depicting lesser known battlefields and minor air forces.

 

If we only look at historical facts, the Eastern Front in WW2 was the scene of some of the biggest aerial battles in history, and the intensity of the air war was unparallelled. More plane types flew there than in any other theatre, and virtually all of the biggest aces on both axis and allied side made their career there. The Eastern Front has way more to offer in terms of intensity and variety than any other theatre.

 

"But..." I can hear you say "People will want the iconic airplanes. They will want their Spitfire and P-51". Yeah, but then there are also people like me, who didn't buy DCS P51 precisely because it was a P-51, which has been done to death a milion times, despite being a fairly unremarkable aircraft.

 

As for the Sino-Japanese war, I'm not sure it would be a big seller, but if BoS can make a big name for itself, that could well boost sales, no matter what theatre is covered next.

 

The reason I pick the Sino-Japanese War and Chinese Civil War is:

 

1. Because it hasn't really been done professionally before (except perhaps portraying The Flying Tigers)

 

2. There is the posibility for a huge range of very unique maps.

 

3. The very long time frame of over a decade of conflict.

 

4. The huge number of different aircraft from different time periods and from dozens of different nations.

 

5. Because the Chinese market is huge and growing. I'll bet you can make more money selling a historical sim about China to the Chinese, than trying to sell the Americans yet another Pony.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Finkeren