About Paratroopers C47 and LI-2

[IckyATLAS]

When the Li-2 came out it was inevitable to compare between the C47 and Li-2.

As we know the Li-2 engines were less powerful so you have to be careful when you load too much like paratroopers and cargo under the plane and there is no headwind to help, your takeoff distance becomes so long that you may end up in trees. If you have paratroopers then forget the cargo even if it is possible. Only if you takeoff from the longest concrete runway it is okay. Otherwise one that goes into the sea. Or you must have a good strong headwind.

 

Now to paratroopers. First I loved the sequence on the LI-2 of the door opening first and then let the paratroopers jump.

 

The C47 when carrying paratroopers has a permanent opening with no door closed. Was it like this in reality? I checked over the internet and some footage on youtube but it is inconclusive as you do not have the full flight sequence. I have seen C47 taking off with the jump door hatch open. Maybe somebody can confirm what it was in reality.

 

The paratroopers that jump from the C47 are US uniforms (even if the C47 is with the VVS skin version). It would be nice that when the C47 is in the VVS version that the paratroopers switch to soviet ones. After all they exist already for the LI-2.

 

I then compared the paratroopers and was surprised. Here are the pictures:

 

First the US paratrooper

As you can see he carries his rifle in a protective bag, he has a knife on his leg he has a kind o axe, and another bag with various stuff, pockets filled with necessary stuff. He also has a secondary chute in case. He also carries a helmet. We can say here that he is really perfectly equipped to fight and survive as soon as he reaches the ground.

 

Now here is the picture of the Soviet paratrooper:

 

This paratrooper is basically completely naked. He has absolutely no gear except the belly safety chute.

He has no fighting gear, no protective gear like a helmet, just nothing except boots and uniform. 

These paratroopers when down on the field they have no way to fight or survive. They will be mowed down like standing grass. 

I know about soviet doctrine at that time of trying to overwhelm the enemy by sending massive amounts of troops, with a logic that quantity beats quality even if it comes at an horrendous casualty cost. But these paratroopers sent down to fight bare hands seems absurd.

So I must be missing something. 

[Trooper117]

Russian paratrooper jump order... quite a few pics on the internet.

 

[IckyATLAS]

That's much better. No helmet but they have fighting gear. Maybe the devs should beef up a little their paratroopers for combat.

[FoxbatRU]

Most often it is not visible what weapon they are with.

[Trooper117]

32 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

No helmet but they have fighting gear.

 

Usually they would jump with head gear similar to a pilots...

[IckyATLAS]

47 minutes ago, FoxbatRU said:

Most often it is not visible what weapon they are with.

In that picture it is true. But only a snapshot, a instant blink ?.

 

It is also the kind of argument I get regarding maps, objects and details to which I am very much for. When you fly and dogfight at 3000mt or above in the sky you do not care about details maybe except Clouds and planes.

But when you fly to land or takeoff the perspective is different. Besides that when you drive tanks and vehicles then all of a sudden all details become very important. We have a Great Battle simulator after all. 

When doing cinematic projects which is not a negligible activity and is an excellent way to attract players, because it showcases all the "details" and their "quality" ingame.

 

I decided not to insist on eyeball motion which I asked for, some years ago.?

I was rebuffed but when you have well modeled faces then making eyeballs move (which is really not hard to do nowadays) does immediately give life to any human model.

It is a small effect with an incredible immersive power. It is part of the list of things that that when put together makes a sim unique and over the top.

Edited October 22, 2023 by IckyATLAS

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

The C47 when carrying paratroopers has a permanent opening with no door closed. Was it like this in reality?

 

Yes

 

5 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

The paratroopers that jump from the C47 are US uniforms (even if the C47 is with the VVS skin version). It would be nice that when the C47 is in the VVS version that the paratroopers switch to soviet ones. After all they exist already for the LI-2.

 

Most Lend-Lease C-47s sent to the USSR served in either rear-area formations far behind the front lines or in general transport roles in singles or pairs near the front lines. So, it's doubtful that they were used at the front to drop paras - maybe behind the lines for training, but probably that was the extent of it.

[senseispcc]

I have never read or remembered of a drop of paratroopers in the second world war by the Red Army, that could in size get near that of the other nations! 

Many drops were to the rear of German positions to aid or reinforce partisans operations, same for supply and munitions drops to those irregulars.

And logically, most of those were done at night. With one or two planes. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by senseispcc
add precision

[Juri_JS]

7 hours ago, senseispcc said:

I have never read or remembered of a drop of paratroopers in the second world war by the Red Army, that could in size get near that of the other nations! 

Many drops were to the rear of German positions to aid or reinforce partisans operations, same for supply and munitions drops to those irregulars.

And logically, most of those were done at night. With one or two planes. 

There were the Vyazma and Dniepr airborne operations, that included several thousand paratroopers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyazma_airborne_operation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Dnieper#Dnieper_airborne_operation

[AEthelraedUnraed]

4 hours ago, Juri_JS said:

There were the Vyazma and Dniepr airborne operations, that included several thousand paratroopers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyazma_airborne_operation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Dnieper#Dnieper_airborne_operation

The Battle of the Dniepr part is a great comical read and a case study in how not to execute airborne operations:

"Intending a 10 by 14 km drop over largely undefended terrain, the Soviets instead achieved a 30 by 90 km drop over the fastest mobile elements of two German corps." ?

Edited October 23, 2023 by AEthelraedUnraed

[Trooper117]

 

49 minutes ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

Intending a 10 by 14 km drop over largely undefended terrain, the Soviets instead achieved a 30 by 90 km drop

 

It had to be that big because of ''not one step back''... had to keep going forward didn't they