sooooo....

[PO_Baldrick]

8 minutes ago, No.54_Reddog said:

 

Pray tell, what quality discussion do you feel the naysayers have deprived you of? Please elaborate how these negative groups have degraded your experience.

It is a general observation from over 25 years of frequenting sim racing, flight sim and some FPS games' forums.

The developer interaction so many crave for on the product's own forums gets eroded due to the actions of some, "it's the only way to get things done around here" they will say.

Having witnessed the engagement with developers who could speak freely without concern their comments would be twisted or misinterpreted and have a constructive conversation for users to be genuinely involved in the future development, be it through the early phase of development or being part of a closed testing group, the change in approach when faced with the aggressive and negative forum members is huge.

I don't have a solution other than engage in closed groups but it has always seemed a shame when developers get pushed away time an time again.

[Dagwoodyt]

31 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

It is a general observation from over 25 years of frequenting sim racing, flight sim and some FPS games' forums.

The developer interaction so many crave for on the product's own forums gets eroded due to the actions of some, "it's the only way to get things done around here" they will say.

Having witnessed the engagement with developers who could speak freely without concern their comments would be twisted or misinterpreted and have a constructive conversation for users to be genuinely involved in the future development, be it through the early phase of development or being part of a closed testing group, the change in approach when faced with the aggressive and negative forum members is huge.

I don't have a solution other than engage in closed groups but it has always seemed a shame when developers get pushed away time an time again.

Characterizing others' posts as "aggressive and negative" is an easy way to demur when you have no substantive response. ?

[Mysticpuma]

6 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

Anyone who has spent time with developers in quality closed beta groups gets to see the massive difference in constructive dialogue compared with the public forums.

 

Which games are you referring to, I assume not Clod? 

[PO_Baldrick]

51 minutes ago, Mysticpuma said:

 

Which games are you referring to, I assume not Clod? 

I am referring to sim racing titles. In one example, the transition in the forums from closed beta to public release included some hostility and came as something of a shock to those in charge. I later discovered some personal grudges with some prominent drivers and staff from previous companies plus there were some fans of rival sims who didn’t want to see it succeed. Then there are those that desire something different to what is offered or it just doesn’t deliver fast enough, which is seemingly always the case.

 

I have always been a fan of the genre, rather than individual developers, although I have a lot of time for most of them, even if they don’t do what I want them to, that is their prerogative. I enjoy seeing software engineers getting involved in discussions and too often they get driven away. I don’t expect that to change, I just find it frustrating.

 

Compared to the early 2000s when publishers somewhat abandoned race and flight sims and studios collapsed, we are reasonably well catered for. Of course we always want more but if a product isn’t doing what we want there are others, just move on and come back later to see if and what has changed.

[Dagwoodyt]

If I press other Il-2 Sturmovik forum tabs I see lots of give and take without the level of stress that so-called "negative" posts seem to occasion on the CloD forum. It's as though any post characterized as "negative" is tantmount to taking food out of someone's childrens' mouths. Putting that level of stress on display for all to see doesn't help the CloD "cause".

[PO_Baldrick]

6 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

If I press other Il-2 Sturmovik forum tabs I see lots of give and take without the level of stress that so-called "negative" posts seem to occasion on the CloD forum. It's as though any post characterized as "negative" is tantmount to taking food out of someone's childrens' mouths. Putting that level of stress on display for all to see doesn't help the CloD "cause".

I am not currently playing IL2:GB so I don’t follow those forums, a quick check finds this 

Opening line “With all the negative going around”.

 

Unfortunately this negativity seems to exist on every flight sim forum, probably every games forum. I guess it exists on most local Facebook local town groups, it is pervasive with social media. I would just hope that combat flight sim enthusiasts might be different but that is probably naïve.

[Dagwoodyt]

45 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

I am not currently playing IL2:GB so I don’t follow those forums, a quick check finds this 

Opening line “With all the negative going around”.

 

Unfortunately this negativity seems to exist on every flight sim forum, probably every games forum. I guess it exists on most local Facebook local town groups, it is pervasive with social media. I would just hope that combat flight sim enthusiasts might be different but that is probably naïve.

I browse all the Sturmovik forum tabs except the one for Il-2 1946. The thread you reference includes the word "negative", but is civil throughout on brief review. It's the open display of stress that's at issue here.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[343KKT_Kintaro]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

doesn't help the CloD "cause".

 

 

Please Dagwoodyt, tell us how to help the CloD "cause", I'm sure you'll teach us a lot of things on that matter.

 

 

[PO_Baldrick]

8 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

I browse all the Sturmovik forum tabs except the one for Il-2 1946. The thread you reference includes the word "negative", but is civil throughout on brief review. It's the open display of stress that's at issue here.

My observations were on race and flight sim forums for 25 years plus, it was pretty generic. I could find some specific examples of stress that make these forums look positively serene. The CloD forums are hardly unique in this regard.

[Dagwoodyt]

2 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

I could find some specific examples of stress that make these forums look positively serene.

"Serene" as in how the final page of this thread ended up? No thanks ?

[Buzzsaw]

There is also a different moderation policy in the BLITZ/TOBRUK forums.

 

We allow comments here which would not be allowed in the GB half.

 

There are far more bannings over there than here... by a factor of 100.

 

When Jason was here, he'd tell me I should just vaporize the naysayers permanently.

 

But I prefer to engage and leave the comments open.

 

That is not to say there will not be bannings and/or deletions if things get out of hand.

 

Basically:  If you want to say something constructive which might help us improve the game... go ahead.  If your comments are entirely negative or personally directed and only serve to inflame the forum, then you can expect to see a response.

[Trooper117]

13 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

When Jason was here, he'd tell me I should just vaporize the naysayers permanently.

 

Sound advice...

[Snowdon]

On 10/24/2023 at 10:13 AM, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

Other than that, Boo, and before we (maybe pointlessly) prolong these disagreements... let's ask Snowdon what was the purpose when opening the present thread... is such a point clear to all of you, fellas?

 

 

simply testing the waters, these post and leave things give me a lot of info about the general mood of those that peruse the "general discussion" area of the forum. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

5 minutes ago, Snowdon said:

simply testing the waters, these post and leave things give me a lot of info about the general mood of those that peruse the "general discussion" area of the forum. 

 

 

Arent' the waters tested now, Snowdon? 

 

 

[Snowdon]

2 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

Arent' the waters tested now, Snowdon? 

 

 

kind of feels like this 

[ST_Catchov]

No, I think it's more subtle than that.

 

 

 

[Snowdon]

1 hour ago, ST_Catchov said:

No, I think it's more subtle than that.

 

 

 

 

[PO_Baldrick]

For those of us who cut their teeth on unmoderated Usenet forums 'tis nothing but handbags at dawn!