sooooo....

[Snowdon]

The Meds have worn off and I've escaped the hug-me jacket, so I thought I'd ask how is everybody else (who's still in a holding pattern here) feeling.

 on a somewhat related note, any movement on the holo-suite mode. 

[Mysticpuma]

[AKA_PumpkiCraterman1]

I don't have VR, but I do have a monitor that would enjoy the new graphics update ?.  But I have been collecting other planes in other flight sims, and there are some interesting things happening out there.

[Enceladus828]

I don’t have VR so this doesn’t affect me one bit ?

[Buffo002]

Since the game was released, I have been missing a pilot log for each static campaign, the number of planes shot down, ground targets destroyed, etc. I don't play VR or online, only offline single player, this is what I'm looking forward to the most, I miss it a lot and I'm sure I'm not alone, but of course I'm looking forward to improvements graphics, sounds and more ... and of course other addons

[Mysticpuma]

 

[Bf109Ace]

On 10/20/2023 at 5:09 PM, Buffo002 said:

Since the game was released, I have been missing a pilot log for each static campaign, the number of planes shot down, ground targets destroyed, etc. I don't play VR or online, only offline single player, this is what I'm looking forward to the most, I miss it a lot and I'm sure I'm not alone, but of course I'm looking forward to improvements graphics, sounds and more ... and of course other addons

Hi Buffo002

Like you, I am a offline single player and also missed a cumulative  pilot/combat log of victories in the static campaigns........ BADLY!!!!!

I work a lot in FMB and if you want to string a bunch of missions together into a campaign with a combat log, I have a cs file given to me by theOden [ all hail! ]

I cant attach the file as it has the wrong extension for this platform.

eMail me at phbcycem@gmail.com and I will send you a copy.

What I like about it is, it is quite a lot more difficult to get a confirmed kill than in CloD's  'still to be worked out by a mad genius'  combat log.

 

[Dagwoodyt]

Without capacity to deliver incremental upgrades TFS falls further behind GB and DCS with each passing month. By the time FFW surfaces in maybe 2026 it will likely look decidedly retro. Arbitrary insistance that the VU must have all advertised  features  implemented and perfect before releasing a public beta makes a public beta irrelevant. At the current rate of progress DWT likely have to hold the fort for another three years. With continual progress being made by other sim developers there is every reason to be actively using a VR headset. Multi-threaded DCS with Varjo quad view DFR and now DLSS support works great if you have an Aero or other compatible HMD. Il-2 GB can also use a DFR mod with the Aero now, though that implementation is not perfect. So why would such HMD's be gathering dust?

[Gunfreak]

DCS is in a completely different league. Just the mossie cost like 2 million dollars in development cost. It also has government contracts to supplement it income.

Clod is run by a few dedicated guys to have very little resources.

And I can't say IL2 is making huge strides in improvements and quality. IL2 engine doesn't appear to get any major upgrades. It's all just adding some basic new content.

[Dagwoodyt]

4 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

IL2 engine doesn't appear to get any major upgrades. It's all just adding some basic new content.

adding new content while moribund (?) ?

[Gunfreak]

6 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

adding new content while moribund (?) ?

They are adding some new planes, and campaigns, all very routine. They've said they have no interest in say improving all that is wrong flight models for the FC3 planes, so they are just porting them from the other game. Il2GB is a lame duck engine. Nothing new will happen. No major improvement to any base systems now. 

Not at all comparable to what is happening to Clod (done on a shoe string budget) or DCS(done with the GDP of a small Eastern European country)

[Dagwoodyt]

4 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

They are adding some new planes, and campaigns, all very routine. They've said they have no interest in say improving all that is wrong flight models for the FC3 planes, so they are just porting them from the other game. Il2GB is a lame duck engine. Nothing new will happen. No major improvement to any base systems now. 

Not at all comparable to what is happening to Clod (done on a shoe string budget) or DCS(done with the GDP of a small Eastern European country)

Editorially bashing Il-2 GB on the CloD forum isn't likely to bring the VU or FFW into public availability any faster ?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

15 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Editorially bashing Il-2 GB on the CloD forum isn't likely to bring the VU or FFW into public availability any faster ?

 

 

Absolutely! As everybody knows, the CloD forum is intended only to editorially bashing CloD... which is something that you and a few others do very very well...

 

 

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Editorially bashing Il-2 GB on the CloD forum isn't likely to bring the VU or FFW into public availability any faster ?

Nothing I said was wrong.

They've stated they do not intend to fix the FM on FC aircraft, just port them. 

They have also shown no intent to do anything to improve IL2. They'll add campaigns and some planes now and then. Nothing on the level of Clod or DCS for core improvement.

There's no hard evidence but it looks like IL2 will just linger on, while they might be planning on a completely new series with a new engine. Which would be the correct decision. As the IL2 engine as the biggest enemy of IL2.

[Dagwoodyt]

18 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

DCS is in a completely different league.

 

18 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Clod is run by a few dedicated guys to have very little resources.

 

8 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Not at all comparable to what is happening to Clod (done on a shoe string budget)

 

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

Nothing on the level of Clod or DCS for core improvement.

So CloD and DCS are in the same league while simultaneously not in the same league, whereas Il-2 GB has a long slog ahead if it aspires to match content and features available in CloD. ?

[SCG_motoadve]

No , my headset (varjo) is being used more than ever with DCS WWII.

Really enjoying that sim, plus with DFR the performance and crisp views are amazing.

[Gunfreak]

1 hour ago, Dagwoodyt said:

 

 

 

So CloD and DCS are in the same league while simultaneously not in the same league, whereas Il-2 GB has a long slog ahead if it aspires to match content and features available in CloD. ?

Are you playing dumb on purpose.

DCS is in a completely different league from both clod and IL2 financially. Which is obvious from the context you decided to cut out of the quotes.

 

And my second part is again obviously about improvements to the core game.

IL2 does not appear to get any new core updated. While DCS and Clod are getting core updates.

[Dagwoodyt]

42 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Are you playing dumb on purpose.

DCS is in a completely different league from both clod and IL2 financially. Which is obvious from the context you decided to cut out of the quotes.

 

And my second part is again obviously about improvements to the core game.

IL2 does not appear to get any new core updated. While DCS and Clod are getting core updates.

Someone responds to a post about CloD's capacity for implementing incremental upgrades by changing the subject to a discussion of Il-2 GB. The deflection amounts to placeholder for a rebuttal. Thanks ?

[DD_Arthur]

12 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

 Il2GB is a lame duck engine. Nothing new will happen. No major improvement to any base systems now. 

Not at all comparable to what is happening to Clod 

Nothing has ever been added or improved in the core of CLoD. Not a sausage.

Team Fusion has merely taken years and years to apply a series of band aids that have actually driven its users away from the game.

 

The inability to improve the core engine was what caused it to be abandoned by its creators in the first place.

How many years has it taken to introduce revolutionary innovations like weather into CLoD? Dunno cause the clock is still ticking on that one….

Will they ever manage native anti-ailiasing or cure the more hilarious a.i behaviour or make the mirrors work properly or even have that most humble and basic tool for the single player; a quick mission builder?

 

No they won’t. Despite all the delusional claims of ‘enormous potential’ and all the ‘whataboutism’……the CLoD engine is a pig in a poke and always has been.

[Gunfreak]

2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Someone responds to a post about CloD's capacity for implementing incremental upgrades by changing the subject to a discussion of Il-2 GB. The deflection amounts to placeholder for a rebuttal. Thanks ?

You brought IL2 into it.

[Dagwoodyt]

4 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

Are you playing dumb on purpose.

 

8 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

There's no hard evidence but it looks like IL2 will just linger on,

 

8 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

As the IL2 engine as the biggest enemy of IL2.

So you're thinking Il-2 GB might be terminal? ? CloD and DCS then facing the future locked in competition?

[Enceladus828]

10 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Nothing has ever been added or improved in the core of CLoD. Not a sausage.

Team Fusion has merely taken years and years to apply a series of band aids that have actually driven its users away from the game.

 

The inability to improve the core engine was what caused it to be abandoned by its creators in the first place.

How many years has it taken to introduce revolutionary innovations like weather into CLoD? Dunno cause the clock is still ticking on that one….

Will they ever manage native anti-ailiasing or cure the more hilarious a.i behaviour or make the mirrors work properly or even have that most humble and basic tool for the single player; a quick mission builder?

 

No they won’t. Despite all the delusional claims of ‘enormous potential’ and all the ‘whataboutism’……the CLoD engine is a pig in a poke and always has been.

Are you a VR Beta tester? If not then all of what you posted is meaningless and unsubstantiated.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Enceladus828

[BOO]

9 minutes ago, Enceladus828 said:

Are you a VR Beta tester? If not then all of what you posted is meaningless and unsubstantiated.

Except it isnt. Its a concise summary of where things are at. Currenly you can level the same argument at TFS. No one outside of the inner core of TFS is anywhere near actually knowing what can and cant be acheived. I would include beta testers in that too. However there are some who can hazzard pretty well educated guesses based on years of experience and working with the game.

 

Im someone who usually bring up potential but, in my defence, Im talking about potential already there and implemented so well in servers like SoW. 

[343KKT_Kintaro]

If one purchases "Blitz" for the first time NOW (v5.40), it won't be long before some absences become easily noticeable: VR compatibility, quick mission builder, dynamic campaign generator, 4k textures on maps and planes, 3D clouds, extended player-manageable weather. All of this is absent in the game at present, whatever its potentialities can be. So please let's wait for these things come to the game and put aside our disagremments once and for all. We who are the fans let's do admit that the game, still 20 years after release, still is in a dimished state. And you guys who permanently are comptentuous of the game, please drop it, simply stop poluting the forums with your permanent negative attitude. TFS still tries to improve the game and sooner or later we'll see if whether or not they manage to upgrade it to modern standards. All of this disdain that some show to the game and to TFS adds nothing but conflict to our forums.

 

[ST_Catchov]

24 minutes ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

And you guys who permanently are comptentuous of the game, please drop it, simply stop poluting the forums with your permanent negative attitude.

 

I agree. This is not the House of Reps. We are adults here and should behave accordingly.

[Gunfreak]

12 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

 

 

So you're thinking Il-2 GB might be terminal? ? CloD and DCS then facing the future locked in competition?

You are just trolling at this point 

[Bf109Ace]

2 hours ago, 343KKT_Kintaro said:

If one purchases "Blitz" for the first time NOW (v5.40), it won't be long before some absences become easily noticeable: VR compatibility, quick mission builder, dynamic campaign generator, 4k textures on maps and planes, 3D clouds, extended player-manageable weather. All of this is absent in the game at present, whatever its potentialities can be. So please let's wait for these things come to the game and put aside our disagremments once and for all. We who are the fans let's do admit that the game, still 20 years after release, still is in a dimished state. And you guys who permanently are comptentuous of the game, please drop it, simply stop poluting the forums with your permanent negative attitude. TFS still tries to improve the game and sooner or later we'll see if whether or not they manage to upgrade it to modern standards. All of this disdain that some show to the game and to TFS adds nothing but conflict to our forums.

If ever there was a post that sums it up ..........................

[AKA_PumpkiCraterman1]

I have played 1080 only until this weekend, I finally got a 1440p monitor and ???.  Now I have some 'hold me over', this old game looks great in 1440!

[Dagwoodyt]

 

1 hour ago, Gunfreak said:

You are just trolling at this point

 

How to not "troll":

22 hours ago, Gunfreak said:

They've stated they do not intend to fix the FM on FC aircraft, just port them. 

They have also shown no intent to do anything to improve IL2. They'll add campaigns and some planes now and then. Nothing on the level of Clod or DCS for core improvement.

?

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Dagwoodyt, as Gunfreak said, "You brought IL2 into it". Gunfreak was just responding to you after you brought "Great Battles" and "DCS" to the thread. So, well, yes... you're trolling...

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

16 hours ago, BOO said:

Except it isnt. Its a concise summary of where things are at. Currenly you can level the same argument at TFS. No one outside of the inner core of TFS is anywhere near actually knowing what can and cant be acheived. I would include beta testers in that too. However there are some who can hazzard pretty well educated guesses based on years of experience and working with the game.

 

Im someone who usually bring up potential but, in my defence, Im talking about potential already there and implemented so well in servers like SoW. 

There is no one who is vocally active in the community and this forum who has actually worked with the Source Code, any kind of programming, or even created 3D models.

 

Everyone who has actual experience is either still in TF or quietly retired from active TF participation and not posting here.

 

MP has experience in doing PR for TF... (and did a fine job within the limits of that job description) but he never did any kind of programming, 3D, sound, visual or any other hands on work.  He has no understanding of the technical requirements of developing this game.

On 10/22/2023 at 2:33 PM, DD_Arthur said:

Nothing has ever been added or improved in the core of CLoD. Not a sausage.

 

The core engine has been upgraded multiple times... I could post a list but it would occupy two pages.

 

You can find the all the details of the upgrades in the various patch notes.

 

An example...  DX-10 to DX-11.

 

An example...  Windows XP/7 to Windows 10/11.

 

An example...  Upgrading from the early Firelight Sound Technologies system which was in the original CLIFFS to the latest version FMOD.

 

An example...  Re-writing the core Physics Engine to correct the original flaws which caused inaccuracies in high altitude performance and aircraft engine behaviour.

 

An example...  Re-writing the object and damage code to allow new larger types of ships and new damage systems for ships.

 

etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum

[BOO]

1 hour ago, Buzzsaw said:

There is no one who is vocally active in the community and this forum who has actually worked with the Source Code, any kind of programming, or even created 3D models.

 

Everyone who has actual experience is either still in TF or quietly retired from active TF participation and not posting here.

 

MP has experience in doing PR for TF... (and did a fine job within the limits of that job description) but he never did any kind of programming, 3D, sound, visual or any other hands on work.  He has no understanding of the technical requirements of developing this game.

 

 

I wasnt referring to MP. Not sure where you got that notion from. My point was there are people who have sufficent experience of working with the game on a practical level and at cost to themselves in time and money over the years to garner an opinion that is as valid as anyone elses.  Dismissing it soley because they are not a VR beta tester is a silly argument.

 

 

[Buzzsaw]

43 minutes ago, BOO said:

My point was there are people who have sufficent experience of working with the game on a practical level... to garner an opinion that is as valid as anyone elses.

 

You mis-understand again.

 

There is no one posting on this forum who has actually worked with the game... with the exception of the TF members who post updates and replies.

 

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion... as long as they do not post false information, but those opinions are uninformed as to the technical and practical realities of developing the game... which is probably why there is so many misunderstandings.

[Dagwoodyt]

Would those who have "actually worked with the game" dispute that the only VU beta will still be the private beta when its’ second anniversary passes in February 2024?

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dagwoodyt

[Mysticpuma]

7 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

MP has experience in doing PR for TF... (and did a fine job within the limits of that job description) but he never did any kind of programming, 3D, sound, visual or any other hands on work.  He has no understanding of the technical requirements of developing this game.

I'll take the compliment and add that I never said I had any knowledge of them ?

 

 

[BOO]

7 hours ago, Buzzsaw said:

You mis-understand again.

 

There is no one posting on this forum who has actually worked with the game... with the exception of the TF members who post updates and replies.

 

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion... as long as they do not post false information, but those opinions are uninformed as to the technical and practical realities of developing the game... which is probably why there is so many misunderstandings.

 

Please dont say Im misunderstanding something when you have not properly read or understood my post. I never mentioned MP and its clear I was respnding to a reply about Arthur. It was yourself who referenced MP. 

 

I note you embolden the part of my post to provide your argument whilst dismissing the preceding "No one outside of the inner core of TFS is anywhere near actually knowing what can and cant be acheived" . So we agree.  And I havent misunderstood anything. 

 

I also note that you edited my comment before reposting it. Arguably those edited words "and at cost to themselves in time and money over the years"  make it quite obvious I'm taking about the server owners such a DangerDogs and Reddog and not TFS members. If I were making reference to former or current TFS members I would say so. My initial post also makes that clear in the text you dismissed. 

 

Working WITH and working ON the game are two separate things in my understanding of English. I dont wotk with my car when Im servicing it, I work on it.  Likewise I dont go on a ferry on my car - I go with it. Semantics perhaps. So there a few on here who have worked WITH the game and, in doing do, have sufficent experience of crerating servers, server missions, SP missions, helping new players and wroking on contrives around the faults to know where the pipes leak. Stretching the anaolgy, repainting the front door and tidying the garden isnt going to pursuade them to move back into the house or disuade them of their opinion that its uninhabitable for their needs or the nneds of anyone seeking similar. 

 

Whether or not they should post negatively is a matter of opinion. Its a forum with a right of reply. Moreso when the respondent is also a moderator.  I would say its a good thing as it  sometimes has actually brought clarity and perspective (as here) when asking questions directly hasnt. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by BOO

[343KKT_Kintaro]

Other than that, Boo, and before we (maybe pointlessly) prolong these disagreements... let's ask Snowdon what was the purpose when opening the present thread... is such a point clear to all of you, fellas?

 

 

[PO_Baldrick]

2 hours ago, BOO said:

 Stretching the anaolgy, repainting the front door and tidying the garden isnt going to pursuade them to move back into the house or disuade them of their opinion that its uninhabitable for their needs or the nneds of anyone seeking similar. 

 

Whether or not they should post negatively is a matter of opinion. Its a forum with a right of reply. Moreso when the respondent is also a moderator.  I would say its a good thing as it  sometimes has actually brought clarity and perspective (as here) when asking questions directly hasnt.

It is stretching the analogy as people complaining about their living conditions would undoubtedly move on if only they could. Quite why people hang on to games/sim forums to voice their continued displeasure I find quite unfathomable, especially for a product like CloD where the financial investment is minimal.

 

The downside of the perpetual sniping at the developers (across all genres of games) is it generates white noise in the forums and the quality discussions between enthusiast players and enthusiast developers get diminished, especially where every word the developers say is dissected to be used against them so they have to spend (waste IMHO) valuable time crafting responses or more typically remain quiet.

 

Anyone who has spent time with developers in quality closed beta groups gets to see the massive difference in constructive dialogue compared with the public forums. It is a shame but there always seem to be a vocal negative group degrading the experience for the majority in pretty much every games forum I have visited. Sometimes it is a personal grudge that just drags on like a jilted lover bemoaning their ex and it just gets boring really quickly. Move on!

[9./JG52_J-HAT]

30 minutes ago, PO_Baldrick said:

It is stretching the analogy as people complaining about their living conditions would undoubtedly move on if only they could. Quite why people hang on to games/sim forums to voice their continued displeasure I find quite unfathomable, especially for a product like CloD where the financial investment is minimal.

 

The downside of the perpetual sniping at the developers (across all genres of games) is it generates white noise in the forums and the quality discussions between enthusiast players and enthusiast developers get diminished, especially where every word the developers say is dissected to be used against them so they have to spend (waste IMHO) valuable time crafting responses or more typically remain quiet.

 

Anyone who has spent time with developers in quality closed beta groups gets to see the massive difference in constructive dialogue compared with the public forums. It is a shame but there always seem to be a vocal negative group degrading the experience for the majority in pretty much every games forum I have visited. Sometimes it is a personal grudge that just drags on like a jilted lover bemoaning their ex and it just gets boring really quickly. Move on!

 

Dangerous dichotomy I see here. To a dark path this may lead. Wary of such division you must be. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by 9./JG52_J-HAT

[No.54_Reddog]

3 hours ago, PO_Baldrick said:

It is stretching the analogy as people complaining about their living conditions would undoubtedly move on if only they could. Quite why people hang on to games/sim forums to voice their continued displeasure I find quite unfathomable, especially for a product like CloD where the financial investment is minimal.

 

The downside of the perpetual sniping at the developers (across all genres of games) is it generates white noise in the forums and the quality discussions between enthusiast players and enthusiast developers get diminished, especially where every word the developers say is dissected to be used against them so they have to spend (waste IMHO) valuable time crafting responses or more typically remain quiet.

 

Anyone who has spent time with developers in quality closed beta groups gets to see the massive difference in constructive dialogue compared with the public forums. It is a shame but there always seem to be a vocal negative group degrading the experience for the majority in pretty much every games forum I have visited. Sometimes it is a personal grudge that just drags on like a jilted lover bemoaning their ex and it just gets boring really quickly. Move on!

 

Pray tell, what quality discussion do you feel the naysayers have deprived you of? Please elaborate how these negative groups have degraded your experience.

 

If it weren't for the negative comments there would be complete tumbleweed in the first place, to say nothing of the fact that most of those posting tend to have constructive points (that are invariably ignored) and who do so from a point of wanting the game to succeed.