6./ZG26_Emil Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Well I'm 100% all for more WW2 sims that is for sure :D If I have 3 to chose from instead of zero I am all smiles
MadTommy Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Tommy, you've been at the guinness again. LOL as much as i do love my Guinness, no. P.S please use a capital G Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the P-51 pilots in DCS flying round just shooting down other P-51s and on a desert map? Aren't BoS pilots just twiddling their thumbs doing jack ****. (And you are clearly very misinformed.) Hence comparing the pricing of DCS to BoS is meaningless. Edited August 1, 2013 by MadTommy
Dutch Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 LOL as much as i do love my Guinness, no. P.S please use a capital G Aren't BoS pilots just twiddling their thumbs doing jack ****. And you are clearly very misinformed. Hence comparing the pricing of DCS to BoS is meaningless. Sorry mate, I had to edit the post just to get two 'n's in the middle. I'll do 100 lines, 'Guinness, Guinness, Guinness, Gui.......oh bollocks to it.' !!
6./ZG26_Emil Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Sorry mate I'm no BOS / ROF pilot Been flying CLOD for ages but I've got DCS-A10 blah blah
Dutch Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Sorry mate I'm no BOS / ROF pilot Been flying CLOD for ages but I've got DCS-A10 blah blah Are you quoting me, Emil???? If no, you bloody well should be!
6./ZG26_Emil Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Are you quoting me, Emil???? If no, you bloody well should be! Only if you are 50+ guinness's I am going on holiday tomorrow so I forbid 100% any updates on TF or BOS.
Dutch Posted August 1, 2013 Posted August 1, 2013 Only if you are 50+ guinness's I am going on holiday tomorrow so I forbid 100% any updates on TF or BOS. Heh! Well have a great holiday. I'm sure the world will be little different on your return. (only 5 stella artois so far btw ) !!!
Bearcat Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 If you want BS yourself by pouring money on dev team that hasn`t shown a good WWII flightsim yet, by all means go ahead. That said, being shocked that not everyone is willing to do the same until they actually see and play something they pay for, is something only a zealot would do. Comparing a computer application to a car is another form saying you do not understand the difference. Given what have they been doing with RoF, you`ll probably have to pay that multiple times. Hell, if you want, I`m sure you could just pay them an equivalent of 150$ for the same package. Does not nearly mean than anyone else besides you wants to do the same thing, moreover, based alone on faith so far. See that's just it..I can't speak for anyone else but myself however I am certain that many share my take on this... This isn't based on faith alone.. It is based on 25 Developer Diary updates,the last series of updates from multiple sources ... and stuff like this.. .. that is all over the internet.. and these things are the reasons for some of the faith in the project and it's developers.. at least for me.. I can't speak for anyone else.. I don't think it's a sucker bet to put a little good faith $$$ up for the pre order given all this.. and I don't think I am deceiving myself.. Time will surely tell though.. The cost... ? I look at it this way. As it is now I own every single seat fighter in RoF.. and the wep mods for the planes I fly .. and the maps.. and the accessories.. I don't really care for bombers or floats much .. but what I have cost me $114 over 3 years.. not counting the original cost of the sim.. which if I remember correctly was selling for $50.. but someone can correct me if I am wrong and the most I ever paid for one plane was $7.20 or 5.45 Euros .. I think I got a pretty fair deal.. and had I been more interested in WWI it would have been a GREAT deal... For me if BoS is close to RoF.. I will be happy.. and I have no reason to doubt that it will actually be better than RoF.. just as FB was better than IL2 if not more so.
APIKalimba Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 If you want BS yourself by pouring money on dev team that hasn`t shown a good WWII flightsim yet, by all means go ahead. That said, being shocked that not everyone is willing to do the same until they actually see and play something they pay for, is something only a zealot would do. Comparing a computer application to a car is another form saying you do not understand the difference. Well Mac, all you have to do then, is wait till the BOS is released and read comments all over the net. If it is not up to the expectations, you will know within days after release.....Remember CLOD ? And why not compare BOS with cars and toasters ? They are all products that people will buy if they are good, and not if there bad. They all need good marketing and distribution,and at the mercy of the millions reviews all over the net. They all need to have a target clientele and establish the needs and demands Of the customers....They also base their pricing policies on competition and grade quality they decided to offer. So you see, there are more similarity then you might think.
Mac_Messer Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Well Mac, all you have to do then, is wait till the BOS is released and read comments all over the net. If it is not up to the expectations, you will know within days after release.....Remember CLOD ? And why not compare BOS with cars and toasters ? They are all products that people will buy if they are good, and not if there bad. They all need good marketing and distribution,and at the mercy of the millions reviews all over the net. They all need to have a target clientele and establish the needs and demands Of the customers....They also base their pricing policies on competition and grade quality they decided to offer. So you see, there are more similarity then you might think. Good to know you aknowledge that. There was some surprise when two or three users said that material shown so far is not enough to make them preorder. So there is nothing wrong with that, we see after 4 pages. How about that. From toasters and cars you can easily go to socks and donuts, all the same. But an application can be changed mostly at any moment. This alone makes comparing with cars and toaster irrelevant. Because a constructive complaint can have an immediate influence on what that application becomes in the end. On a sidenote, see what they have shown us today? Ground vehicles making tracks in the snow and few katyushas. Didn`t want to spoil that thread over there but that is just BS to me. More of the same, not showing what a flight simmer wants. In simple words for everybody to understand : if thisis meant to convince me to preorder, it`s the wrong direction.
FuriousMeow Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 (edited) So, Mac_Messer, what do you want to see? Someone wants to see the 109 sitting in a profile position, someone wants to see planes flying in formation, someone wants to see the eye holes of each airman's boots, someone wants to see this and someone wants to see that. Everyone wants everything with flight/air combat sims. But, what do you want to satisfy your wants for a pre-order to get early access to a beta with a product that is just coming out of pre-alpha? A completed polished product? It's just into an alpha stage. They are demoing new tech to make the environment non-sterile. One of the complaints that is quite abundant. Edited August 2, 2013 by FuriousMeow
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 On a sidenote, see what they have shown us today? Ground vehicles making tracks in the snow and few katyushas. Didn`t want to spoil that thread over there but that is just BS to me. More of the same, not showing what a flight simmer wants. In simple words for everybody to understand : if thisis meant to convince me to preorder, it`s the wrong direction. Where were you last week? or the week before, or the weeks before that? One week where we dont see a plane your throwing the dummy out?
BraveSirRobin Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 If the stuff they have shown does not convince someone to pre-order, there is probably nothing that will convince them..
APIKalimba Posted August 2, 2013 Posted August 2, 2013 Good to know you aknowledge that. There was some surprise when two or three users said that material shown so far is not enough to make them preorder. So there is nothing wrong with that, we see after 4 pages. How about that. From toasters and cars you can easily go to socks and donuts, all the same. But an application can be changed mostly at any moment. This alone makes comparing with cars and toaster irrelevant. Because a constructive complaint can have an immediate influence on what that application becomes in the end. On a sidenote, see what they have shown us today? Ground vehicles making tracks in the snow and few katyushas. Didn`t want to spoil that thread over there but that is just BS to me. More of the same, not showing what a flight simmer wants. In simple words for everybody to understand : if thisis meant to convince me to preorder, it`s the wrong direction. Hi Mac, Just a comments about comparison. Yes few improvements may be done to a software after release, but still, if the game falls short of it's promises, not much can be done afterwards to restore confidence in the product...CLOD is the best example. Still nowadays , any product of any provenance needs good marketing and the right targeted clientele...And who isn't checking reviews over the Internet before buying anything ? Bad products have a much shorter lifespan on the market than ever since all have access to worldwide experience and reviews...Same for games and software... Salute ! other's experience.... Over the Internet Damned IPAD ...can't even edit my post....sorry about the screwed post... Salute!
Mac_Messer Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 So, Mac_Messer, what do you want to see? Someone wants to see the 109 sitting in a profile position, someone wants to see planes flying in formation, someone wants to see the eye holes of each airman's boots, someone wants to see this and someone wants to see that. Everyone wants everything with flight/air combat sims. But, what do you want to satisfy your wants for a pre-order to get early access to a beta with a product that is just coming out of pre-alpha? A completed polished product? It's just into an alpha stage. They are demoing new tech to make the environment non-sterile. One of the complaints that is quite abundant. Leading my point to absurdity is not making you look good. It only shows you have nothing to say on this matter. Show me more RoF as the standard answer. Two examples of what I would like to see from the top of GD forum section - head movements, weather effects. And no, Mysticpuma and gavagai aren`t my optional forum nicks. As for me, easy. I support the above mentioned threads. Plus how about : - showing some QMB/FMB work, - showing some procedure (startup,landing), - showing plane model surfaces working (flaps, radiators, guns), - showing some cockpits in action, - showing a ground battle, - showing a mud moving session, - showing some of the the UI. That kind of stuff is flight simmer stuff. At this point 777 didn`t even provide material to let me know that gear has working shock absorbers.
Mac_Messer Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Hi Mac, Just a comments about comparison. Yes few improvements may be done to a software after release, but still, if the game falls short of it's promises, not much can be done afterwards to restore confidence in the product...CLOD is the best example. Still nowadays , any product of any provenance needs good marketing and the right targeted clientele...And who isn't checking reviews over the Internet before buying anything ? Bad products have a much shorter lifespan on the market than ever since all have access to worldwide experience and reviews...Same for games and software... (...) Salute! I don`t want to read too much into the two first lines so please clear that up. What do you mean? Reviews is just a part of the show. As you see, some of the forum goers already preordered given the info I find to be not nearly as good to make a preorder of a game. So at who exactly is the dev diary directed at? Certainly not a flight simmer and I do not think a casual.
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Leading my point to absurdity is not making you look good. It only shows you have nothing to say on this matter. Show me more RoF as the standard answer. Two examples of what I would like to see from the top of GD forum section - head movements, weather effects. And no, Mysticpuma and gavagai aren`t my optional forum nicks. As for me, easy. I support the above mentioned threads. Plus how about : - showing some QMB/FMB work, - showing some procedure (startup,landing), - showing plane model surfaces working (flaps, radiators, guns), - showing some cockpits in action, - showing a ground battle, - showing a mud moving session, - showing some of the the UI. That kind of stuff is flight simmer stuff. At this point 777 didn`t even provide material to let me know that gear has working shock absorbers. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you not think all these things will be shown when they are ready? Oh and the planes have shock absorbers... 4.20 in this vid, if you only opened your eyes... Edited August 3, 2013 by Furbs
APIKalimba Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 I don`t want to read too much into the two first lines so please clear that up. What do you mean? Reviews is just a part of the show. As you see, some of the forum goers already preordered given the info I find to be not nearly as good to make a preorder of a game. So at who exactly is the dev diary directed at? Certainly not a flight simmer and I do not think a casual. Well, even if some people have enough faith to buy BOS now, it won't change the overall outcome of the product. The vast majority will buy BOS after first release IF , and that is my point, if comments and reviews are good enough to convince you and others who feel the same....And the softcore player crowd that could represent a lot of money......And this crowd will rely on comments and reviews buy those who already got the game first, being the hardcore....And the hardcore crowd is merciless when a sim like this one falls short. My two cents : a good short playable demo would be the best marketing tool for 777 if the game is what they say it will be. A good demo + good reviews = lots of BOS sold.....And Mac would probably buy it then....;-)
BigC208 Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Mac_Messer has good reasons to be sceptical. He looks at how things went with CloD and acts accordingly. He's a half empty glass kinda guy and makes a rational decision based on a recent passed experience. Most of the preorder people, myself included see a half full glass with a full beer truck parked next to it. I preordered, knowing there is a more than likely chance that the Sim could be bought for a lot less in 6 months. If we all had Mac_Messer's outlook, a lot of programs would never be made. I hope Mac will be pleasantly surprised when the preorder guys start writing reviews in a few months. I'm not going to try to change his mind. It's his money and I don't know his financial situation. If I was financing my sim hobby with limited resources I would be sitting on the sidelines untill the public release. After the CloD release fiasco I was actually surprised 1C had the stones to try to release another flights sim this soon. Jason's reputation and the Alpha release that has been shown restored my faith (yup I'm a zealot).
=RvE=Windmills Posted August 3, 2013 Author Posted August 3, 2013 Well there's no reason to preorder yet. Might as well await further info.
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 There is another show coming soon, that should show a fair bit more of what BOS offers, plus still a month or so to go until the beta starts. Plenty of time to think things over yet.
Heywooood Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 all this thinking is getting me a headache...when is that next show?
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Its in Cologne i think, not sure of the date...its in the forum somewhere. Jason mentioned if i remember. Edited August 3, 2013 by Furbs
ATAG_Slipstream Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Gamescom, Cologne 21-25 August: http://www.gamescom-cologne.com/en/gamescom/home/index.php
mjstarke Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 Part of the reason I justify myself in participating in this sort of business model is that nobody else is doing a game anything like this one (and RoF) at the level of quality that I see in BoS. For that reason I'm willing to support the developers in a way I wouldn't with some other game. They've put their goods out on the table, stated their terms and I bought it. I wish the pre-order rewards were a little better, too. As the money comes in maybe they will be able to throw in a little more. It's a gamble, but one I'm willing to make because I want to see this project do really well and eventually expand to the Pacific theater, my favorite for flight sims. 1
FuriousMeow Posted August 3, 2013 Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Leading my point to absurdity is not making you look good. It only shows you have nothing to say on this matter. Show me more RoF as the standard answer. Two examples of what I would like to see from the top of GD forum section - head movements, weather effects. And no, Mysticpuma and gavagai aren`t my optional forum nicks. As for me, easy. I support the above mentioned threads. Plus how about : - showing some QMB/FMB work, - showing some procedure (startup,landing), - showing plane model surfaces working (flaps, radiators, guns), - showing some cockpits in action, - showing a ground battle, - showing a mud moving session, - showing some of the the UI. That kind of stuff is flight simmer stuff. At this point 777 didn`t even provide material to let me know that gear has working shock absorbers. That show me more RoF stuff that you complain about. Try it out. Take a look at the landing gear on a rotary when it's cut and not. You want to see shock absorbers? They're doing it with straight axles held in place by rubber cords. Shock abosrbers/struts are no issue as has actually been shown. I'm not being aburd, it's just all about you. You won't pre-order, you never were going to. BoS is just into Alpha - you won't see what you want until much closer to release. So, wait until then. Edited August 3, 2013 by FuriousMeow
Heywooood Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Gamescom, Cologne 21-25 August: http://www.gamescom-cologne.com/en/gamescom/home/index.php thank you Uther - thats the fireworks because it still leaves time for preorders - the 777 1CGS will want to have their best suits on for that show...flightsuits naturally... I can already hear the jaws dropping Edited August 4, 2013 by Heywooood
Bearcat Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 Well there's no reason to preorder yet. Might as well await further info. For YOU Also, there's no reason not to pre-order. For YOU.. Look guys this debate is stupid. Either get it or don't .. but to say that the devs have shown nothing is silly .. they have.. The have shown tons of information to convince many.... that is an undeniable and unarguable fact. To keep debating with a guy who feels that the devs have not shown enough to convince him is just as silly... It is what it is. Everybody just needs to get over it and move on.. or this silly debate will go on for pages and not be resolved.. until whatever this guy or thesew folks because MM is not alone in his feelings.. need to be convinced.. and they may never be convinced till they get a free demo in their hands to try.. who knows.. who cares.. All I know is .. I will be trying this new thing out in the first public wave .. That's what I paid for.. that's what I am getting.. and I do not think I will be disappointed in the least. I will share my feelings here.
71st_AH_Hooves Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 Its pretty obvious that a guy who comes to this forum, with Cliff of Dover pic next to his name is going to slander truths, ignore facts and talk alot of trash. I prefer to not feed the trolls. Everybody just | | |
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 I don`t want to read too much into the two first lines so please clear that up. What do you mean? Reviews is just a part of the show. As you see, some of the forum goers already preordered given the info I find to be not nearly as good to make a preorder of a game. So at who exactly is the dev diary directed at? Certainly not a flight simmer and I do not think a casual. Out of interest, did you pre-order CLOD?
LLv34_Untamo Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 S! I have no problem with the pricing and I agree with Jason that the price tag for the extra planes isn't too high, but: Having two separate price tags might present a problem as some will go for the cheaper one. Thus we will have people online without the 2 planes. And when they get shot down by the aforementioned planes, there will be screams of "cheater"/"pay to winner" or whatnot on the servers to an amount that all the server admins will disable the "extra" planes. Or so I would imagine. That is why I would recommend only one price option for all the planes and keep the optional payments for something more superficial. But, let's see, I might just be too pessimistic
Feuerfalke Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) S! I have no problem with the pricing and I agree with Jason that the price tag for the extra planes isn't too high, but: Having two separate price tags might present a problem as some will go for the cheaper one. Thus we will have people online without the 2 planes. And when they get shot down by the aforementioned planes, there will be screams of "cheater"/"pay to winner" or whatnot on the servers to an amount that all the server admins will disable the "extra" planes. Or so I would imagine. That is why I would recommend only one price option for all the planes and keep the optional payments for something more superficial. But, let's see, I might just be too pessimistic The best victory is when you are called a cheater without having cheated. And then, whoever you shot down with that special plane is more likely to get that special plane for himself, too. Even if the plane is not better, he wants that expected advantage to pull even. That's not a problem. That's the core of this business-model! Edited August 4, 2013 by Feuerfalke 1
ATAG_Slipstream Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 I'll buy a 110 if/when it is made. I doubt that will be pay to win. 2
=BKHZ=Furbs Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Have you pre-ordered yet Uther? Edited August 4, 2013 by Furbs
ATAG_Slipstream Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Just bought a new car, so no. I will do before the end of August though. I think the Autumn entry will be more focused on beta testing, which I currently don't have time to do. Edited August 4, 2013 by JG52Uther
Bearcat Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 Out of interest, did you pre-order CLOD? Apparently that sim seems to have done a great deal of harm to the simming community.. It seems that the debacle of CoD was even greater than the mess that CFS 3 was.. which I didn't believe was even possible. Maybe it was because of who it was that developed it... You barely hear people mention CFS 3 when it comes to disappointing releases.. but it too k a while for CFS 3 to become somewhat respectable.. (although for me CFS 3 still blows... at least CoD has managed to grab a few starts from me...) .. S! I have no problem with the pricing and I agree with Jason that the price tag for the extra planes isn't too high, but: Having two separate price tags might present a problem as some will go for the cheaper one. Thus we will have people online without the 2 planes. And when they get shot down by the aforementioned planes, there will be screams of "cheater"/"pay to winner" or whatnot on the servers to an amount that all the server admins will disable the "extra" planes. Or so I would imagine. That is why I would recommend only one price option for all the planes and keep the optional payments for something more superficial. But, let's see, I might just be too pessimistic Remember a lot of that will be determined by the server.. providing the option to limit plane sets is a server side setting which I have no reason to think it wouldn't be.. I think the two priced option was great because everyone can't afford to drop $90 for a sim .. Hopefully BoS will return us to the same page standard that IL2 set for a long time as far as the assurance that the same plane being flown against you online was the same plane that you could fl;y on your own PC offline.. Pay to win? To me that is just silly anyway.. as I said all this is server settable.. so if the server host either doesn't own or doesn't want a certain plane set available then he can set the server accordingly.. Pay to win and the notion that because someone had a better plane that he would be cheating comes from the same place as being worried about someone using bright colored skins to better spot enemy planes online.. so there fore we can't have online personal skins..
Crow Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) I guess the question really comes down to how many people do you want participating in BoS? Do you only care about yourself? Do you only care about yourself and your close friends? Do you only care about hardcore flight simmers? Do you want as many people as possible to participate (as long as the experience isn't compromised)? Different people will answer different things. For my part, I think the last option is best. One of the things that made IL-2 so enjoyable was that so many people that weren't necessarily flight sim junkies were drawn into a really stellar product that was priced at a reasonable level. The fact that there were over a thousand people on hyperlobby for me to play with made for an incredible online experience. I will be VERY dissapointed if this game doesn't drum up enough support to see at least 500+ people online during peak hours. I've posted this here and at SimHQ, so I won't reiterate again, but my basic stance is I'd like them to take a very normal approach to pricing so they don't scare off potential customers who might be interested in flight sims, but aren't ONLY flight simmers. $60 for the base game and then $30 for expansions is my suggestion. No weird buy-individual-planes-or-content schemes. Those models might work for Valve when they do it with a fanbase of milions of Steam users, but it doesn't work in a genre that has a fanbase that is likely measured in the single digit thousands. Edited August 4, 2013 by Crow
Mac_Messer Posted August 4, 2013 Posted August 4, 2013 Hi Mac, Just a comments about comparison. Yes few improvements may be done to a software after release, but still, if the game falls short of it's promises, not much can be done afterwards to restore confidence in the product...CLOD is the best example. Still nowadays , any product of any provenance needs good marketing and the right targeted clientele...And who isn't checking reviews over the Internet before buying anything ? Bad products have a much shorter lifespan on the market than ever since all have access to worldwide experience and reviews...Same for games and software... Salute ! other's experience.... Over the Internet Damned IPAD ...can't even edit my post....sorry about the screwed post... Salute! The problem with CloD was that it was broken at its core, from the start. If BoS is different, subtle changes can be surely made depending on user feedback. Well, even if some people have enough faith to buy BOS now, it won't change the overall outcome of the product. The vast majority will buy BOS after first release IF , and that is my point, if comments and reviews are good enough to convince you and others who feel the same....And the softcore player crowd that could represent a lot of money......And this crowd will rely on comments and reviews buy those who already got the game first, being the hardcore....And the hardcore crowd is merciless when a sim like this one falls short. My two cents : a good short playable demo would be the best marketing tool for 777 if the game is what they say it will be. A good demo + good reviews = lots of BOS sold.....And Mac would probably buy it then....;-) It seems you got me all wrong. I`m not your casual simmer type. I`ve been hyped for Stalingrad since I heard BoM was in the making. The problem is that as muc as I want to get the thing asap, I don`t feel like the devs have given me a reason to do so. In addition to what you`re saying, this one will not get a much bigger, dynamic following if it fails to provide a user friendly multiplayer environment. Its pretty obvious that a guy who comes to this forum, with Cliff of Dover pic next to his name is going to slander truths, ignore facts and talk alot of trash. I prefer to not feed the trolls. Everybody just | | | Getting personal with me will not change the fact that BoS needs better, more clever marketing. That show me more RoF stuff that you complain about. Try it out. Take a look at the landing gear on a rotary when it's cut and not. You want to see shock absorbers? They're doing it with straight axles held in place by rubber cords. Shock abosrbers/struts are no issue as has actually been shown. I'm not being aburd, it's just all about you. You won't pre-order, you never were going to. BoS is just into Alpha - you won't see what you want until much closer to release. So, wait until then. BoS is not RoF. Devs themselves have repeatedly stated this, but for some reason you ignore it. Get over that argument, the only thing it makes is you looking silly. And how do you know I wasn`t going to preorder? You are being silly.
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