Some constructive criticism on the business model

[=RvE=Windmills]

So being a huge Il2 fan, and still playing the modded original online, I am quite looking forward to this new version. I wasn't a huge fan of the RoF model, but I never really played it all that much. Nevertheless I bought quite a few aircraft for it, in addition to buying the game itself in the earlier days. The reason I didn't hugely mind the business model was that it seemed clear that the devs were just barely scraping by, and couldn't really afford to do things any other way.

 

 

I didn't expect the business model to radically change, but I do seem to recall posts that they were going to change some stuff about the business model for the better (?).

 

Regardless, enough background and on to the point.

 

Free to play has been a big thing in the past few years, the usualy model is to have everything (or at least most items) ingame earnable via gameplay, but earnable at an accelerated rate for paying customers. Importantly, the base game is normally free.

 

 

Now what thoroughly confuses me about the BoS model is that they both ask full price for the basic pre-order, while expecting you to pay extra for planes that aren't included in this pack. Forcing people to cough up the (frankly absurd) price of 90 dollars in order to get the 2 extra planes is pretty crazy.

 

Secondly, the type of planes that are part of the 90 dollar pack I find disturbing. Arguably the FW190 and the LA5 will be some of the most capable planes out there, and restricting them only for those who can/want to pay a premium price for their game (either on top of a full priced game, or for the cost of nearly 2 full price games) is an extremely bad idea. It effectively means that when you want to be competitive in the multiplayer you need these planes. Sure you 'can' still win with any other plane, but tell me with a straight face that you fly in Il2 online and you can do as well with a Yak1/LaGG35 as you can with an LA5.

 

Now the game looks great, and I'll probably still buy and play it. But how do I sell this idea to friends who still enjoy sim games, but aren't quite as hardcore about it? How can you expect anyone who isn't a hardcore simmer to jump on this? Pay full price for a game and you don't even get the best planes? While it might not be entirely appropriate, it has the distinct ugly smell of 'pay to win' hanging around it. Even giving the impression that a game is pay to win is murderous for its popularity, even if its free to play. And here we have a game that costs full price yet you're still going to have to invest extra to fly the 'best' ships around? You're new to the game, so there's already a skill gap, and then you have to deal with people better then you who fly around in superior craft? This is extremely harsh for new players.

 

Micro payments should be primarily reserved for content that doesn't give players significant edges versus those who don't use them. Any model that includes micro payments, should aim for these payments to not give these players significantly more capable items. With BoS, it clearly seems like this ideal won't be achieved.

 

So let's imagine I finally persuade a friend to buy the game and he wants to fly a 190 with me I have to tell him "Sorry, you need to pay extra for that". You guys realize what a joke that is right? If this is the model you're going with, I unfortunately wouldn't dream of recommending it to any friends, because I know it will dissapoint them eventually due to the need to keep investing in it.

 

And again, I don't think it matters for the hardcore audience. Like I said, I will probably still buy it. What it is murderous for however is for the big audience who likes flight sims, but doesn't care enough about them to keep pouring money into it. I feel like this unnecessarily restricts your audience to only the most hardcore customers. Locking content that is already 'done' away until extra money is paid is one of the biggest faux pas moves in the game industry. Just look at the blowback Metro:Last Light received for their day 1 DLC of an extra gamemode. And now think how that compares to limiting the best equipment behind an extra price tag. To many people, this will look like nothing more then a complete rip off.

 

 

I genuinely hope this game works out, but I can't help but feel like the business model will do terrible damage to the potential it has to become popular among the people who are casual simmers so to say. Is money really that tight? Is it really worth it to exclude so many people from trying your product simply due to the exhorbitant pricing?

 

I understand that the sim market isn't large, but I feel like this exactly the stuff that prevents it from becoming any larger. This will bar the door to any new blood, and I really, really hope they reevaluate their model.

 

 

 

 

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I am not so sure about that, always used to do better in 109 than in 190. And if there is possibility to get Yak-1 with bubble canopy, I would take it before early model La-5:s.

 

That said, I do understand your concern.

Edited July 29, 2013 by mprhead

[theOden]

Maybe the financial point of view tells them that singleplayer crowd is vastly bigger than the online competitive crowd (excluding coop flyers)?

I have no data but let's say 500 players are online they equals $25000 of $50 copies, not much to run a business on IMO.

[von_Tom]

 

 

So let's imagine I finally persuade a friend to buy the game and he wants to fly a 190 with me I have to tell him "Sorry, you need to pay extra for that".

 

 

Your hypothetical friend will have been convinced by your arguments. That suggests that you will "sell" it to them.   They don't have to buy it if they don't want to - it's all about choice.  So if he wants the FW190 he has to pay.  Or you don't fly the FW190 and fly in F4s together (this is what I think friends would do, or I would anyway).

 

F4s will be competitive against most VVS aircraft including the La5.  The FW190 is not the be-all and end-all of the game.  I also expect (or hope) that there will be a lot of online historical servers that do not allow the La5 or FW190 as part of the plane set.

 

Do not forget that the price of the pre-order is very unlikely to be a forever price.  By Spring 2014 the base game might be free, or 15 or 20 Euros/bucks and the planes may be on sale etc etc etc.

 

I think back to how many versions of IL2 I bought.  I probably spent about £120 from the initial version.  That will get me BoS plus a few more goodies - not bad for 2013.  And despite any protestations, that's the way it's going to be.

 

Remember, it's all about choice.  That you don't like something is perfectly fine, you just have to decide if you want this game (and future aircraft/expansions etc) or not.  If you don't, please don't complain about it because it's here to stay. 

 

Chin up.

 

Hood

[leitmotiv]

Regarding price, the way im looking it now is im not paying 90$ for 10 airplanes, im paying for being able to play it 6 months earlyer and 40$ diferance betwen standard and premium is not only La5 and 190 its also being able to play it 2-3 month earlyer, i dont beleve game will cost 90$ or 50$ when its relised or aditional packiges will be 20$ per airplane or so... 

 

After checkin the forums i see its somthing on what i can spend my money, but i aslo get your point of having hard time convincing other frends, but this is only for alfa and early acces i think

[=RvE=Windmills]

Your hypothetical friend will have been convinced by your arguments. That suggests that you will "sell" it to them.   They don't have to buy it if they don't want to - it's all about choice.  So if he wants the FW190 he has to pay.  Or you don't fly the FW190 and fly in F4s together (this is what I think friends would do, or I would anyway).

 

F4s will be competitive against most VVS aircraft including the La5.  The FW190 is not the be-all and end-all of the game.  I also expect (or hope) that there will be a lot of online historical servers that do not allow the La5 or FW190 as part of the plane set.

 

Do not forget that the price of the pre-order is very unlikely to be a forever price.  By Spring 2014 the base game might be free, or 15 or 20 Euros/bucks and the planes may be on sale etc etc etc.

 

I think back to how many versions of IL2 I bought.  I probably spent about £120 from the initial version.  That will get me BoS plus a few more goodies - not bad for 2013.  And despite any protestations, that's the way it's going to be.

 

Remember, it's all about choice.  That you don't like something is perfectly fine, you just have to decide if you want this game (and future aircraft/expansions etc) or not.  If you don't, please don't complain about it because it's here to stay. 

 

Chin up.

 

Hood

 

It also has to do with expectations though. We're not talking about a free to play, or even discounted game. We are talking a about a product that is sold for the amount you can buy any brand new triple A game for. With that I don't believe it is unreasonable to expect for content that is already done not to be withheld for additional payments. Either that or to not have the some of the most iconic and capable planes at your disposal without paying an additional fee on top of the full price.

 

And I never stated that you will gain an enormous edge by owning the 190/LA5, but there definitely will be an advantage for the people owning them. For people not owning these, it will be a less pleasant experience for them, even when they just have the feeling that they are at a disadvantage just because the other guy invested more.

Edited July 29, 2013 by iLOVEwindmills

[Sven]

Agree with the OP.

 

I Would rather pay reasonable full game price of 60 dollars, for every complete add-on with new map and planeset. But not willing to pay 50 for an inferior planeset, so for me the only option would be to pay 90 as I don't want to be left behind in online servers. For me it's only fun if I'm on a level play field, or have the option to be, sometimes I fly inferior aircraft for learning purposes.

Just voicing what I prefer here, not an attack on devs. 

 

FW190 and LA5 are evidently more modern (especially 190), faster and better equipped fighters than the BF109F4/G2 or Yak-1/LaGG3.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Sven

[BFsSmurfy]

Yak-1b lovely aircraft.

 

Windmill everything costs money these days perhaps it`s time the community smelt the coffee and realised that paid for content is how it`s probably got to be in a niche market. The "free to play" is a good idea but is that going to work if the casual player is going to be happy with his two planes (like RoF) and never spend another cent?, dunno. As for pay to win I can`t buy that mate, online the best player not the best plane usually wins, especially in locked pit, offline the missions may be  tailored for the new player to get a chance to grow. I`m not upset at the way the game`s being sold, I see it as the only way forward if the very very niche genre is to survive. I do agree however that $40 for the 2 more potent planes was a touch excessive, I`ve stumped up because I want this to be a success.

[von_Tom]

 

But an AAA title will be sold to a huge number of players in such quantities that they can make a profit. Flight sims are not AAA titles like Call of Duty or a battlefield etc. They do not sell as much because they do not appeal to as many people.

 

In most things in life you have to pay more to get a better product. This is the same and to get a good product with a smaller customer base the price has to be higher. To keep development going there has to be a revenue stream. The OP's point was that this business model will drive away casual gamers. If they're casual gamers they may not care anyway. If they get the bug it may draw them further in. I cannot believe it will suddenly diminish this market at all.

 

To us this franchise is a big thing. But it is a smaller thing than it was 10 years ago. That's life. I'd be happier paying £5 a month but that won't wash with the flight sim crowd as most remember how things used to be.

 

Hugs to all

 

Hood

[BFsSmurfy]

^^^^^

 

Spot on

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

Understand your point, but the term full game is a loaded term and subjective. It's not the same business model as ROF and it's not the same as past simulations which were grossly under priced (in my opinion) for how much they cost to develop and the genre's pricing didn't keep up with inflation. Compare what we are doing to what DCS is doing or what you pay for quality add-ons in FSX and BOS seems like a bargain in my book. Every plane included is about $10 give or take. That seems fair to us. We hope to focus on theaters with this product instead of individual planes, but there may be some exceptions if we want to add a plane or two to an existing theater.

 

The LA-5 and FW-190 are considered bonus planes as they played a very minor role in the Stalingrad theater, but we thought some would want them anyways.

 

Jason 

[Tektolnes]

You'll be competitive in online MP with the Yak-1 / 109-G2 - especially if we can get the Yak-1B. It's true that the La-5 and FW190 will be competitive aircraft as well but there's not going to be some big gap. Of course if you fly the Lagg-3.. well.. good luck I suppose. Best stick to chasing bombers.

[FuriousMeow]

It's not a $90 for just the 190 and La5. It's to get earlier access to the game, which is more important to me. It also feeds money back so we won't be sitting around here this time next year with BoS being the last WWII combat sim to be developed. Ever. This is not a very lucrative genre, and it gets less so every year as the time of development goes up while the product cost has remained the same.

 

There is another title out there that has donation packages in the thousands of dollars for 1 ship.

[=RvE=Windmills]

But an AAA title will be sold to a huge number of players in such quantities that they can make a profit. Flight sims are not AAA titles like Call of Duty or a battlefield etc. They do not sell as much because they do not appeal to as many people.

 

In most things in life you have to pay more to get a better product. This is the same and to get a good product with a smaller customer base the price has to be higher. To keep development going there has to be a revenue stream. The OP's point was that this business model will drive away casual gamers. If they're casual gamers they may not care anyway. If they get the bug it may draw them further in. I cannot believe it will suddenly diminish this market at all.

 

To us this franchise is a big thing. But it is a smaller thing than it was 10 years ago. That's life. I'd be happier paying £5 a month but that won't wash with the flight sim crowd as most remember how things used to be.

 

Hugs to all

 

Hood

 

I wasn't talking about casual gamers as much, there's a type of players who's between the hardcore sim fanatics and casuals though. Just look at how many people know Il2 and played it, you don't need to be a hardcore simmer to have a LOT of fun in that game. Especially when you're playing with friends on more relaxed settings.

 

I completely understand that there's not as much money available, however they it doesn't seem to me like they are in the same situation as RoF, where they desperately needed money or the whole thing would fall apart before it even came out. I strongly believe that a more competitive price point would strongly increase the sales to the people that are on the fence about buying games like this. 50 Dollars for a game that only has a couple of tech demo's is a lot to ask, especially with the prospect of further investments being required. 90 Dollars, well I don't really need to explain why that's a lot of money for what's currently given in return for it.

 

To draw people in further they need to first pay a significant amount. What makes considerably more sense to me is to have that first hurdle be much lower, in order to draw in more people that can get hooked on it and invest more in the future.

 

 

Guys,

 

Understand your point, but the term full game is a loaded term and subjective. It's not the same business model as ROF and it's not the same as past simulations which were grossly under priced (in my opinion) for how much they cost to develop and the genre's pricing didn't keep up with inflation. Compare what we are doing to what DCS is doing or what you pay for quality add-ons in FSX and BOS seems like a bargain in my book. Every plane included is about $10 give or take. That seems fair to us. We hope to focus on theaters with this product instead of individual planes, but there may be some exceptions if we want to add a plane or two to an existing theater.

 

The LA-5 and FW-190 are considered bonus planes as they played a very minor role in the Stalingrad theater, but we thought some would want them anyways.

 

Jason 

 

Thanks for the reply, I certainly understand what the idea behind locking these two planes away is, I'm just worried about the signals (if not knee jerk reactions) this gives off to a large amount of potential customers. Certainly these planes weren't in the forefront of the fights the game models, but will that really be relevant for the majority of the online games being played? I don't realistically see it happening that these will be used as rare bonus planes in small numbers.

 

People have them, paid for them, and want to fly them. They are competitive and iconic machines, but just that is also what gives the problems. Locking away units that are arguable some of the best available is dangerous.

[FuriousMeow]

Servers also lock down planesets. So even if you have them, none of the servers may have them active at that time.

[Jaws2002]

Servers also lock down planesets. So even if you have them, none of the servers may have them active at that time.

Well, since the only version that would be released this year, will have the bonus planes, I'm sure all the early servers will have both those planes in. Not in all missions, but in most of them.

 I too preordered the premium package for the early release and not the planes.

 The early premium beta release is a risky idea in my opinion and I hope the game runs great from the start. It would suck to have a barely playable beta for twice the price of the official release. This could cause some really bad press.

 

I wish them good luck.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Jaws2002

[TRIAS]

In 1 v 1 scenario Bf109G vs FW190A3 Bf109G2 is a better choice hands down. Fw190A3 is a pure boom and zoomer, it would present a problem for those players whose  Situational Awareness is low (sort of like SPAD7/13 in ROF). The thing is 

that FW190 wasn't in Stalingrad (It was in JG54 500kilometers north of Stalingrad) and in Single player campaign will not be present as it was in reality. La5 was in small numbers( if my memory serves me well). In any case

Bf109F4/G2 is a better AC in 1 v 1 against Lagg3/Yak1/La5 (if pilots are closely matched) but when it comes to 2 v 2 , 3 v 3  and more, then individual planes are not as important as  how squad "behaves" in a dogfight.

I personally bought Premium package

(first time in my life tbh) as I feel 777 can deliver something that I was hoping BoB would do. Unfortunately, BoB didn't have that "feel" as ROF does. I was not a big fan of WWI but when I tried ROF then there was no return to BoB

for me. I never fell an urge to fire up BoB anymore and actually never did since that first try of free alb5/SPAD13. Since then I bought almost all fighters that ROF has and enjoy it today no less then the first day I tried it. 

Pricewise I would buy it for twice more if need be as PC, TIR, Rudder pedals, Videocard/CPU upgrades and  tMY TIME are much more expensive then BoS. If you doubt or god forbid voice your concerns here whether to pay or not for BoS then either you are greedy, not trully into virtual flying, plain dumb or all above. I read russian forums and I know for sure these guys (777) LOVE what they do. BoS is a labor of LOVE by professional team led by producer who knows what/how the sim should be.

At this point only thing I hope is that they meet their financial targets as there is nothing to worry regarding quality of product.

In  777 I trust and mere 90 bucks is my little share to help those who CAN and LOVE to do what they DO and us who LOVES to FLY in SIMS that we LOVE. Simple .

[FuriousMeow]

There's two versions and the later one won't have the 190/La5. Additionally, I'm betting not all planes will be available on the day of the Premium Edition early release. On top of all that, this is an early access to beta. We're helping to find bugs and report them so that the release in the Spring is solid and <mostly> bug free.

 

It won't be barely playable, but it'll still be a beta. We're paying to make sure the release is in better shape, and I'm all for that.

Edited July 30, 2013 by FuriousMeow

[WklinkTomCofield]

I posted this on SimHq but it probably should be pointed out here.

 

I bought Aces over Europe in 1993 for about 50 dollars. According to this site http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ that same 50 buck game would cost 80 dollars today. Some folks think that 90 dollars is outrageous but in all honesty, the prices have been too low for too long.

[TheBlackPenguin]

Prices are about right, and could be argued to be too cheap. Looking at other genres, such as MMO's like Neverwinter where I'd argue that a mount or a companion isn't anywhere as detailed or complex as an aircraft in BOS or ROF (or a flight sim like DCS):

 

http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Zen_Market

 

$40 for a mount? Looks pretty and makes travelling a bit faster, no flight model to contend with, no instrumentation and a lot less useful overall. I am very happy with the pricing here within context of our times and I know if successful will lead to more content.

[heinkill]

Guys,

 

Understand your point, but the term full game is a loaded term and subjective. It's not the same business model as ROF and it's not the same as past simulations which were grossly under priced (in my opinion) for how much they cost to develop and the genre's pricing didn't keep up with inflation. Compare what we are doing to what DCS is doing or what you pay for quality add-ons in FSX and BOS seems like a bargain in my book. Every plane included is about $10 give or take. That seems fair to us. We hope to focus on theaters with this product instead of individual planes, but there may be some exceptions if we want to add a plane or two to an existing theater.

 

The LA-5 and FW-190 are considered bonus planes as they played a very minor role in the Stalingrad theater, but we thought some would want them anyways.

 

Jason

 

Sensible. Completely agree, at these prices, good value for money.

 

H

 

PS I would however like to put in another plug to let me buy the additional kites like the 109G, rather than only 'earn' them in game. Don't discriminate against me just coz I am a Lazy Sod With Cash...

Edited July 30, 2013 by heinkill

[SvAF/F16_Goblin]

I completely agree about prices. Take a look at the new title RSI Space citizen f.i. There a single ship costs anything from $35 up to $250!

For one (1) ship and then you'll have to pay insurance and hangar fees and so on so forth. I backed it on kickstarter but now that I know 
the full extent of the idea I'm not sure I'll continue because I simply haven't got the time to spend to fully explore it.

 

But in that view I feel that BoS is a veritable bargain, period!

[=BKHZ=Furbs]

The price is fine, even a bit cheap if you ask me...the OP should just ask his friend how much a night at the movies or a meal out costs and way up the price vs time + entertainment comparison.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Furbs

[=69.GIAP=MALYSH]

haha

we simmers always want the cake, the cherry, and the whole darn kitchen.

 

The premium edition is just that, premium. Play early and support the devs. It's not a pure plane-to-dollars deal. If plane types are a concern then just sit back and wait 6 months. While the business model differs significantly from RoF note that in RoF there are regular sales, and it's possible to pick two planes, buy them for next to nothing, and play a very fulfilling game. Regular short-term discounts are a big part of attracting new players to niche games.

 

But for us who want to play the whole game, early, with all available planes.... well if we consider ourselves the "core" of the il2 simming community then it's up to us to suck it up and support the genre. Tank sims cost twice as much.

[BigC208]

When I first saw the price I had to do a double take. $90....When it settled in,realizing it's about $10 per plane,it's not bad. My big thing is that they go with the theatre approach. One theatre at a time with a fixed planeset. The extra planes are optional. I posted on the RoF forum a few years ago, I hoped that the RoF team would tackle WWII. Well it's here so time to put my money where my mouth is. I know I probably can get the premium version for a lot less next year looking how plane sales work for RoF. The early access and supporting the only company in the world that's catering to my hobby makes it worth it for me. I spend $3000 on a cumputer for CloD and have about $1000 of other flight sim hardware. $90 for the software is almost an after thought.

[9./JG52Lopp]

I bought Clod the day it came out, Since then I have flown around 1600 hrs in it. I think even as messed up as Clod is I have got my money's worth of fun out of it many times over.

 

We're expecting a lot from 1c and 777 and if they don't deliver they know what will happen. If the game is good as what we've seen so far and if it takes buying a plane or two or a map in between titles to keep some money coming in I'm ok with that. Maybe they could have had the bonus planes in both packages and just had us pay more for the earlier access. I really don't know.  

 

It all boils down to we want content and good game play, well guys that stuff cost money to develop.

[APIKalimba]

Oh boy....How much do you spend in a restaurant with the lady in one evening ?

Or fill the SUV for a couple of weeks ? Or a visit at Dr.Pain's office for a bad cold ?

$90 for 1 hour of play a day , 200 days per year, for let say for 2 years, makes it 400 hours divided by $90,

makes it $ 0.23 an hour to play a top notch flight sim...And my numbers are quite conservative ...Many will spend twice that time

playing BOS....

"Price" is always relative to what you get for the money you spend....

$90 for BOS is very very cheap...Almost a gift from Jason and his team.....

 

Salute !

[Pupo]

 

The LA-5 and FW-190 are considered bonus planes as they played a very minor role in the Stalingrad theater, but we thought some would want them anyways.

 

 

 

the problem is this bonus planes will rule in MP. My fear is that this game will end where cod is now: 1 multiplayer server, la5 vs fw190 ( currently its spitIIa vs E4n), and those who dont pay the extra fee will give up on the game fast. And that those planes are currently priced ar 20$ each.

[6./ZG26_Emil]

the problem is this bonus planes will rule in MP. My fear is that this game will end where cod is now: 1 multiplayer server, la5 vs fw190 ( currently its spitIIa vs E4n), and those who dont pay the extra fee will give up on the game fast. And that those planes are currently priced ar 20$ each.

 

Maybe in the airquake servers but surely there are plenty of people out there that want to fly historical missions. I certainly do.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I am still confident that G-2 will rule them all... And anyway; what JG5_Emil said.

[vyyye]

Oh boy....How much do you spend in a restaurant with the lady in one evening ?

Or fill the SUV for a couple of weeks ? Or a visit at Dr.Pain's office for a bad cold ?

$90 for 1 hour of play a day , 200 days per year, for let say for 2 years, makes it 400 hours divided by $90,

makes it $ 0.23 an hour to play a top notch flight sim...And my numbers are quite conservative ...Many will spend twice that time

playing BOS....

"Price" is always relative to what you get for the money you spend....

$90 for BOS is very very cheap...Almost a gift from Jason and his team.....

 

Salute !

This argument is ridiculous. When talking about game pricing you compare it to game pricing, not to the price of a visit to the doctor's or the price to fill your SUV(seriously)?

Either way, not very happy with these bonus planes but what can you do. As long as there are options making sure every server isn't a Fw190 v La5 slugfest. Honestly, would much prefer to just pay $60 for a "complete game" so to speak, but you can't have it all.

Edited July 30, 2013 by vyyye

[theOden]

Simple, create all your missions without the bonus planes before you share them on the forum.

[6S.Manu]

I am still confident that G-2 will rule them all... And anyway; what JG5_Emil said.

 

I really hope that the pilot's ride will be a less decisive factor than in the old IL2 1946.

I would like a sim where the pilot's skill is really important, where even a little mistake has a great cost to be paid.

Edited July 30, 2013 by 6S.Manu

[leitmotiv]

to me if i buy premium, im buying ability to be in tests of game early then with standard, and i show the team that made the game that i think this could be good game but lets see how it all works in pre game tests, i dont pay for finished game or expect to see finished game and nothing sayed now from team about the game is writen in stone, some thing wil change some not in next 6-7 months. La5 and FW190 is just bonus i get from Team for buying premium, and diferance in price from standard to me dosent have anything to do with only 2 airplanes, thinking its 20$ each

[DD_BadAim]

Just a little perspective on what things cost: I went to the range yesterday and shot two of my pistols that cost nearly $2000 between them, and it cost $30 for an hour at the range plus the $50 or so for the ammo I used. I really enjoyed myself for that hour.

 

Flight simming is a cheap hobby.

[352ndOscar]

Kind of curious if you questioned the business model of the last dealership you purchased a car from concerning available options with this much intensity......

[vyyye]

Just a little perspective on what things cost: I went to the range yesterday and shot two of my pistols that cost nearly $2000 between them, and it cost $30 for an hour at the range plus the $50 or so for the ammo I used. I really enjoyed myself for that hour.

777 should price the game at $500. It's cheap enough, only a quarter of what you paid for your two pistols. The price per hour won't be high at all if you compare it to going out on Fridays either.

 

Christ, I can't figure out if you were serious or just wanted to tell people about your pistols.

[mazex]

Even though I had a small mental hickup at the $89 price tag initially I think that it's really not that bad for the premium edition. I guess the two "premium" planes will be sold in the shop on day one for $15 or so (a nice price by the way compared to FSX etc. like many have said). As everyone here is going to buy them anyway the 40 bucks extra for premium is really just paying $10 for early beta access that we all want bad  

 

And like many here have said it's a small niche that needs the money from us sim nerds to keep alive. I have almost every plane in RoF but I think that I have only played it for 20 hours or so. To some extent I feel that my investment there (with many others naturally) have payed off now as 777 survived to make this WWII version

 

Regarding the choice of the Fw 190 as a premium bonus I think it was a nice gesture. So many have been "fishing" about that it should be in the game even though it was not really in Stalingrad. Getting it day one saves a lot of threads here with people putting up evidence that MAYBE it was seen over Stalingrad (on fumes ) to get it in the game. And no fat "bar" please to save a few thousand threads more

 

After the game has been out for a while I guess they will do it the same way as with RoF and release a 2-plane free to play version with almost all version 1.0 bugs gone for the OP:s friend and all the "non-community" people out there that are badly needed for critical mass. Then he can buy just the Fw 190 for $15 if that turns out to be the plane he wants... And then he will be hooked and buy a "Christmas sale pack" with the whole bunch of planes for $25 or so.

[DD_bongodriver]

777 should price the game at $500. It's cheap enough, only a quarter of what you paid for your two pistols. The price per hour won't be high at all if you compare it to going out on Fridays either.

 

Christ, I can't figure out if you were serious or just wanted to tell people about your pistols.

 

Knowing BA he was deadly serious 'and' wanted to tell us about the pistols

[=RvE=Windmills]

Yeah I don't know about all these strange comparisons. You compare it to other sims/games and you

 

If you want to compare it for Star Citizen, you do realize that that is,

 

1: a crowdfunded game

2: an MMO

3: Full game for only 25 Euros, including a ship

 

There is no easy entry version. You're clearly intending to retain people and make a profit over longer term with micro payments, but the obnoxiously entry level pricing prevents getting large amount of people on board for this. Please consider adding a cheaper version of the game, something like is currenly available for RoF.