Quest 3 Inbound - Thoughts to follow

[dburne]

Pre-ordered Quest 3 a few days ago, got an update this morning from Amazon. My original delivery date was Thursday Oct 12th, and now Amazon has update it to Wed. Oct 11th. Nice.

I am really looking forward to trying it out (stand alone mode only). I can broaden my horizons a little hopefully with some games I can get into just anywhere in my home.

 

This absolutely will NOT be used as a PC-VR device.  I have an Aero for that which I love dearly. No way will I install that Meta software on my PC. Not even for any testing. So in my case it will only be my views operating the headset in it's mobile stand alone mode only. I am looking forward to Asgard's Wrath 2 which comes out later this year and comes with the headset purchase.

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Man, how many times you must mention  that you wont be using it for PCVR. Like someone is asking you to do Il2 tests.

Who cares how you gonna use.  If that is not  beneficial to who would like to use it with il2. I don't ask what it is for adult man. Are we on il2 vr forum or not.

[dburne]

6 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

Man, how many times you must mention  that you wont be using it for PCVR. Like someone is asking you to do Il2 tests.

Who cares how you gonna use.  If that is not  beneficial to who would like to use it with il2. I don't ask what it is for adult man. Are we on il2 vr forum or not.

 

Well perhaps there are other players that are interested in the device for stand alone who knows.  However I will gladly not mention any longer how I intend to use the headset. For those that will be using it for their PC-VR needs some might be also interested in the mobile aspect. But I get your point.

[Dagwoodyt]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

No way will I install that Meta software on my PC.

It is apparently still possible to prevent Meta services from starting automatically on PC. I would be far more concerned about the obligatory mobile install. How much of your info gets vacuumed up during the mobile install process is anyone's guess.

[Barn-Owl]

How do u deal with the lack of microphone and speakers with the Aero?  I got so used to the G2 speakers and Mic, which work well, but I am looking to upgrade.  Just hate the idea of a headset, then having to put more sh*t on my head in the form of a microphone/speakers....  Your thoughts are appreciated.

[dburne]

20 minutes ago, Friction said:

How do u deal with the lack of microphone and speakers with the Aero?  I got so used to the G2 speakers and Mic, which work well, but I am looking to upgrade.  Just hate the idea of a headset, then having to put more sh*t on my head in the form of a microphone/speakers....  Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

Well up until yesterday I used a desktop USB Mic and Earbuds plugged into my Creative Sound on my MB.

Yesterday I received some new headphones with Mic I wanted to try. Steel Series -  has it's own DAC, and have just got it hooked up and have not used in game yet, feeling very bad today so hoping I can get going with it tomorrow. 

 

BTW - I always used my own audio solutions with every VR headset I have ever tried. Never thought any of them had sound much good.

Edited October 6, 2023 by dburne

[Picchio]

I was about to ask what did Meta do to you that any other company didn't do ?

 

p.s.: get well soon!

Edited October 6, 2023 by Picchio

[dburne]

This is interesting , copied from a post over on the Meta forums.

 

Quote

Thanks to Norm for being the only reviewer so far I've seen to point this out. While the Q3's panels have a native resolution of 2064x2208, for standalone use things are only rendered at 1680x1760 resolution. For standalone, graphics aren't rendered at the native resolution of the panels. It's like watching a 720p video on a 1080p screen. To get full native resolution you have to use it with a PC and supersample.

 

Mine will be here today.

Edited October 10, 2023 by dburne

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

Thanks to Norm for being the only reviewer so far I've seen to point this out. While the Q3's panels have a native resolution of 2064x2208, for standalone use things are only rendered at 1680x1760 resolution. For standalone, graphics aren't rendered at the native resolution of the panels. It's like watching a 720p video on a 1080p screen. To get full native resolution you have to use it with a PC and supersample.

Same was true with Q2 but resolution was even lower. Unfortunately the mobile chip is not yet powerful enough.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Dagwoodyt]

5 hours ago, dburne said:

This is interesting , copied from a post over on the Meta forums.

 

 

Mine will be here today.

Please comment on the install process when convenient. Best wishes?

[dburne]

58 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Please comment on the install process when convenient. Best wishes?

 

I am sorry perhaps another can do that for you - mine will be relegated to stand alone mobile use only. I will not be hooking it to my PC nor installing any Meta software on my PC. My impressions will only be for stand alone mode.

 

Which I realize this being a flight sim forum many are not going to be interested in that, however I figure there are probably some that might enjoy both PC-VR and Stand Alone Mobile VR.  That is why I wanted to share my experience in that department.

Edited October 10, 2023 by dburne

[102nd-YU-cmirko]

Virtual Desktop is not written or tracked by Meta (?), and it's considered as good (or better quality when streaming from PC) as Quest Link ^^ - it is an extra cost though considering that Quest Link exists, but, if used to stream PCVR to compatible HMD's wirelessly, it does provide some benefits with PCVR. 

Edited October 10, 2023 by 102nd-YU-cmirko

[Dagwoodyt]

41 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

I am sorry perhaps another can do that for you - mine will be relegated to stand alone mobile use only. I will not be hooking it to my PC nor installing any Meta software on my PC. My impressions will only be for stand alone mode.

 

Which I realize this being a flight sim forum many are not going to be interested in that, however I figure there are probably some that might enjoy both PC-VR and Stand Alone Mobile VR.  That is why I wanted to share my experience in that department.

Understood. I wasn’t able to get QP’s going in either mode. Had I been able to get it going in stand-alone I’m thinking the link cable setup would not have been a problem.

 

[dburne]

My new Quest 3 was just handed to me, so it has arrived!

Probably going to a bit later today before I boot it up for the first time. Since I stand alone only I am sure ok to wait a little while lol.

 

Edit:

Box is smaller than I would have imagined.

Edited October 10, 2023 by dburne

[dburne]

Sorry guys it may be another day before I can share my thoughts. Have not even opened the box yet. Feeling pretty ill today.

If not hopefully tomorrow. 

[stiboo]

Get well soon, I'm ready to order my Quest 3 depending on IL2 users feedback..

[dburne]

Just got through all of setup on my new Quest 3. Everything was smooth and painless. Pretty impressed with the color passthrough (remember though I came from original Quest. 

[dburne]

Hey gang - question for ya. Finally at the point I will be trying out my new Quest 3 with some stand alone gaming today. Remember I will only be using this headset for it's stand alone/mobile abilities. It will not be hooked to my PC and I will not have any Meta software on my PC. Not going to happen.

 

I realize many of you are only interested in it's PC-VR abilities. I don't want to waste folks time, so I would like to know are there any others of you in here that will also be using Quest's stand alone ability? Let me know so I can know better how to proceed. If not I will let this thread end here.

 

I will say these pancake lenses on the Q3 are pretty sweet. 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by dburne

[Alonzo]

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm only interested in IL2 and the other flight sim. I'm waiting for People Who Know What They're Talking About to give their impressions, so that'd be people like you and Chili on here. The MSFS forum thread is a dumpster fire of people who know nothing about anything, and the jet sim thread gives me little confidence either, given that people are content with 45 FPS. I know the performance in the jet sim is ass-garbage and so maybe 45 is all you're gonna get, but people who are happy with that give me no confidence their opinion matters for IL2 dogfights which is my use case.

[Argosafe]

Can someone just buy, install and tell us something useful about Quest 3 please.  I am not interested in the fact you've ordered it, are somewhat scared of using a cable etc etc.   Just some feedback God help us.

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

You gotta give people time to properly test the headset to get a worthwhile opinion. It'll suck if people rush their review and tell you the headsets great, then only later on  issues come to light after you've already bought the new headset. If you want a little taste, so far I am liking what I see with the quest 3, and it will probably be a no contest winner vs the Pico 4, but I'm not happy with image quality vs the G2 in IL2, though I haven't done a deep dive tweaking it yet, so we'll see.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

2 hours ago, Argosafe said:

Can someone just buy, install and tell us something useful about Quest 3 please.  I am not interested in the fact you've ordered it, are somewhat scared of using a cable etc etc.   Just some feedback God help us.

I think a large part is that people's orders haven‘t arrived. Mine will on the 17th at the earliest.

 

42 minutes ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

You gotta give people time to properly test the headset to get a worthwhile opinion. It'll suck if people rush their review and tell you the headsets great, then only later on  issues come to light after you've already bought the new headset. If you want a little taste, so far I am liking what I see with the quest 3, and it will probably be a no contest winner vs the Pico 4, but I'm not happy with image quality vs the G2 in IL2, though I haven't done a deep dive tweaking it yet, so we'll see.

Whilst agree with your sentiment, I would love to hear your opinion on contact visibility.

Edited October 13, 2023 by FTC_ChilliBalls

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

 

6 minutes ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

Whilst agree with your sentiment, I would love to hear your opinion on contact visibility.

Its worse so far, but I still have more to tweak so it's a garbage opinion right now. I'll have a better answer later.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

3 hours ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

 

Its worse so far, but I still have more to tweak so it's a garbage opinion right now. I'll have a better answer later.

Thx a bunch.
Have you ever used the Rift S or any other headset with a comparable resolution? 

 

If so, how does it compare to that generation of headsets?

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

I had a Rift S a couple years ago but I never used it in IL2. The quest 3 would blow that away.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

32 minutes ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

I had a Rift S a couple years ago but I never used it in IL2. The quest 3 would blow that away.

I‘m currently still using a Rift S as I wait for my Q3 to arrive. My main problem is contact visibility both in the distance and close if it’s against the sea or the ground.

 

Do you feel like this is an issue with the Quest 3?

[DBCOOPER011]

8 hours ago, Alonzo said:

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm only interested in IL2 and the other flight sim. I'm waiting for People Who Know What They're Talking About to give their impressions, so that'd be people like you and Chili on here. The MSFS forum thread is a dumpster fire of people who know nothing about anything, and the jet sim thread gives me little confidence either, given that people are content with 45 FPS. I know the performance in the jet sim is ass-garbage and so maybe 45 is all you're gonna get, but people who are happy with that give me no confidence their opinion matters for IL2 dogfights which is my use case.

 

Alonzo, are you referring to people getting only 45 FPS in DCS specifically with the Q3? I play that sim and get an easy 90 FPS with the pimax crystal and reverb g2. It actually looks and runs very very well with quad views openxr.. 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

1 hour ago, FTC_ChilliBalls said:

I‘m currently still using a Rift S as I wait for my Q3 to arrive. My main problem is contact visibility both in the distance and close if it’s against the sea or the ground.

 

Do you feel like this is an issue with the Quest 3?

This is worth bringing to people's attention. I've spent most of my time trying to deal with stutter, but I just saw this, and I'm using the problem router type so still lots of tweaking before I can give better answers. I haven't spent too much time tweaking spotting yet.

 

[Alonzo]

12 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

Alonzo, are you referring to people getting only 45 FPS in DCS specifically with the Q3? I play that sim and get an easy 90 FPS with the pimax crystal and reverb g2. It actually looks and runs very very well with quad views openxr.. 

 

I basically mean anyone satisfied with 45 FPS in VR shouldn't be trusted to give any kind of opinion on image quality. At least I don't trust them.

[dburne]

17 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

I basically mean anyone satisfied with 45 FPS in VR shouldn't be trusted to give any kind of opinion on image quality. At least I don't trust them.

 

Yikes!

 

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

 

 Pioneer logo and small text in quest menus did look sharper in quest pro, but everything else is better in quest 3. This is not yet PCVR comparison. I think quest pro could have edge there.

Edited October 14, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Arioch_RN]

For what it’s worth, I’ve found Quest 3 to be much superior than my previous headsets (Rift CV1 - Rift S - Quest 2) for PCVR.

 

I haven’t changed any iL-2 settings and the game looks much clearer - the pancake lenses give almost edge-to-edge clarity and there are no slight god-rays from light sources as with the Q2. Image is noticeably sharper and has a slightly wider FoV - it is a “round” image now instead of having flat sides like the Q2. Spotting distant planes is better now, they are not a small mass of pixels but I still need to use image zoom.

 

The headset is much more comfy and the IPD adjustment is good. Feels more like ski goggles now.

 

Sound is improved and has better depth.

 

Colour pass-through is very impressive and I can easily read my tablet without removing the HMD.

 

I’m playing with an i7 11700 & RTX 4070ti, default Oculus settings of 4k by 2k at 72Hz.

 

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

1 hour ago, Arioch_RN said:

I still need to use image zoom.

To id them, not just to see dots on horizon?

1 hour ago, Arioch_RN said:

For what it’s worth, I’ve found Quest 3 to be much superior than my previous headsets (Rift CV1 - Rift S - Quest 2) for PCVR.

 

I haven’t changed any iL-2 settings and the game looks much clearer - the pancake lenses give almost edge-to-edge clarity and there are no slight god-rays from light sources as with the Q2. Image is noticeably sharper and has a slightly wider FoV - it is a “round” image now instead of having flat sides like the Q2. Spotting distant planes is better now, they are not a small mass of pixels but I still need to use image zoom.

 

The headset is much more comfy and the IPD adjustment is good. Feels more like ski goggles now.

 

Sound is improved and has better depth.

 

Colour pass-through is very impressive and I can easily read my tablet without removing the HMD.

 

I’m playing with an i7 11700 & RTX 4070ti, default Oculus settings of 4k by 2k at 72Hz.

 

 

I have same GPU , what SS you use and how many fps you get?

Do you see landscape shimmering and compression artefacts?

Edited October 14, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[Arioch_RN]

I should’ve specified that I mainly play FC, but I can see eg. the Albatross wing shape at an instant mission starting distance of 1.5km.

 

I’m using the stand-alone launcher so no Steam SS, the Q3 is at 4128x2208 and is steady at 72Hz - I’ve just had a 12 plane dogfight on the FC2 map and my OculusDebug graph showed steady 72fps with just over 40% headroom, so it looks like I can tweak things up a bit*.

 

I’m not seeing much landscape shimmer or compression artefacts when using a Link cable but AirLink has had a few hiccups in other games - that may have been down to having variable streaming rate enabled, I’ve set it at 200mbs now and I’ll see how I get on with it.

 

*Current settings: Shadows=High, Mirrors=Complex, Distant Landscape x3, Horizon 150km, landscape blurred, Grass=Distant, Clouds=Extreme, FXAA, AA x2, 4k textures, Distant Buildings. All other settings Low/Off.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Arioch_RN

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

Does anyone know if IL2 specifically has extra stuttering and warping issues when using compression? I know IL2 has baked in stutter for other reasons, so it would be on brand for compression to cause extra stuttering and warping in IL2. I've got my headset working mostly smooth with only 1 or 2 stutters a minute when using Virtual desktop in non-IL2 games, but IL2 has much worse stutter and warping when using the Q3 vs my G2 even when using garbage graphic and bitrate settings. I bought a 6gz router, so that excludes the 5gz issue.

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

For anyone interested, it's now apparently possible to use Virtual Desktop together with Opencomposite in IL2.

Will check it out once I actually get my Q3, but according to what I've gathered it simply works by using a new program by MBucchia as an intermediary. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by FTC_ChilliBalls

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

I don't think it's out yet. The github says the release isn't public yet, and it needs a later version of VD than is out now. So I guess it'll be ready on the next VD update. I'm gonna give up tweaking until that's released.

Edited October 14, 2023 by =MERCS=JenkemJunkie

[Alonzo]

18 hours ago, =MERCS=JenkemJunkie said:

Does anyone know if IL2 specifically has extra stuttering and warping issues when using compression? I know IL2 has baked in stutter for other reasons, so it would be on brand for compression to cause extra stuttering and warping in IL2. I've got my headset working mostly smooth with only 1 or 2 stutters a minute when using Virtual desktop in non-IL2 games, but IL2 has much worse stutter and warping when using the Q3 vs my G2 even when using garbage graphic and bitrate settings. I bought a 6gz router, so that excludes the 5gz issue.

 

If you're using AV1 codec on the Quest 3, don't. I had a weird issue where looking upwards caused network spikes, turns out it wasn't my head blocking the signal it was actually that "blue sky" is a scene that causes decode problems in AV1 on the Q3. I switched to HEVC 10-bit and that fixed it.

My first impressions are that the Q3 is better than the Reverb G2 in these ways:

• Edge-to-edge clarity in the lenses means all the pixels are worth something, so even though the G2 has a sharper middle, the Q3 is better overall.
• Slightly wider FOV than the G2 but not as good as the Index.
• 72hz mode is really good for IL2, which has CPU spikes in multiplayer and needs as much headroom as you can give it.
• I don't need to run Windows MR anymore, and in fact can do a SteamVR bypass with Virtual Desktop, seems to work great.

It's worse than the G2 for sound quality, the elastic head strap is 'meh' compared to a solid strap, and the wireless is a mixed bag. I think I like the wireless now I've got it all sorted but battery life may prove to be an issue. The Q3 seems to only trickle charge whilst 'on' -- it has a gigantic 20,000 mAh battery and needs 18W just to trickle charge, so I guess we'll have to see what the third party strap manufacturers come up with.

 

In terms of settings, I went from using the Reverb G2 with fixed-foveated upscaling from about 80% pixels to using the Q3 at native via Virtual Desktop 'Godlike', which is about 3,000 x 3,200 per eye. Didn't change anything else yet. The 72hz gives me the headroom to push all those extra pixels and with VD at 200 megabits the picture looks very good, looks native to me.

 

My PC is a 5800X3D + RTX 4080 combo.

[356thFS_Piranha]

Can you run through the PC , not using the battery?

 

[=MERCS=JenkemJunkie]

3 hours ago, Alonzo said:

 

If you're using AV1 codec on the Quest 3, don't. I had a weird issue where looking upwards caused network spikes, turns out it wasn't my head blocking the signal it was actually that "blue sky" is a scene that causes decode problems in AV1 on the Q3. I switched to HEVC 10-bit and that fixed it.

I was using H.264, medium in VD and a 50 bitrate to test for stuttering/warping, and it still seemed worse than my G2. I was using SteamVR though, I'll try using the bypass. If I can fix that stutter the headset does have potential to beat out the G2 even though the G2 is clearer in the middle because of the pancake lenses like you said. The picture looks much better than the compressed picture on my Pico 4. 

2 hours ago, 367th_Piranha said:

Can you run through the PC , not using the battery?

 

It has to use the battery, but you can have it plugged in while playing. You'll want to make sure your charging source will charge the quest faster than the quest uses it. When I had my quest plugged into my PC it was draining the battery faster than my headset was charging. Using the BOBOVR M2 battery pack it charged my headset faster than my headset would drain it.