Great battles and nVidia

[esk_pedja]

I upgraded my GPU last week to RTX 3070... When flying over Velikiye Luki Summer map, I suddenly have feeling that river surface is reflecting sunshine in a new way (intense and precise)

Is it just my casual impression... or GB series unofficially supports Ray Tracing of nVidia ?

[JG27_Mainz]

The games are better optimized to run on Nvidia hardware rather than AMD.

[esk_pedja]

...but the previous GPU was nVidia GTX 1070 ?

[JG27_Mainz]

You made a significant upgrade going from 1070 to 3070, and you should expect performance improvements across the board.

[FoxbatRU]

Ray Tracing is of course not supported (IMHO). It would be nice to get some new technology like DLSS in the next game, but I don't think it's very likely until there's enough of us to interest NVIDIA or AMD.
As for updating the hardware, when I changed the 3080 to 4080, I also noticed advantages in the graphics, in addition to pure productivity. At 3080 and 2080 my ultra shadows behaved worse than on lower level shadows. But on 4080 this was corrected. Moreover, the driver was more or less the same.

[IckyATLAS]

And who knows what will the 5090 bring ?

[esk_pedja]

45 minutes ago, IckyATLAS said:

And who knows what will the 5090 bring ?

We will bring a suck of money for 5090... after selling the car - to by GPU

[AEthelraedUnraed]

6 hours ago, esk_pedja said:

Is it just my casual impression... or GB series unofficially supports Ray Tracing of nVidia ?

Yes and no, in that order

 

IL2 doesn't have ray tracing, but as the others have said above, with a better GPU you should expect better reflections overall.

 

Also note that sky/sun reflections aren't particularly hard to do and ray tracing doesn't really add much there, at a humongous cost compared to simple reflections. If I only need to do skybox and sun reflections, I can probably program a functional semi-photorealistic fragment shader in a couple of hours or so. The real advantage of ray tracing are complex reflections, say other objects, or reflections of reflections (of reflections). None of that in IL2, and IMHO there's no need for it

[IckyATLAS]

17 hours ago, AEthelraedUnraed said:

None of that in IL2, and IMHO there's no need for it

I would tend to not agree. We have rivers, lakes, sea, and if we could have on grass airfields water pools here and there under the rain, these all could benefit in the future of some raytracing. Maybe the graphic engine and visual model of the game map is already too old compared to what we have today to justify an effort to implement RT. 

[esk_pedja]

Update to grass RT itself, could visually refresh an already aged graphic environment - extending the life span of GB for some 10-12 years.

( Landing into semi realistic grass environment is already a visual "bottleneck" for GB... much more than "glorified" clouds topic... )

[Lusekofte]

On 10/4/2023 at 8:49 PM, IckyATLAS said:

And who knows what will the 5090 bring ?

A 5000w psu?

[AEthelraedUnraed]

21 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

We have rivers, lakes, sea, and if we could have on grass airfields water pools here and there under the rain, these all could benefit in the future of some raytracing.

All of those are perfectly possible without raytracing, and at an eye candy level too. Take for example Red Dead Redemption 2, which doesn't use any raytracing. Looks good, no?

 

The only advantage of raytracing is in computing very detailed photorealistic reflections and refractions. Flying 300kph at 1000m altitude, you're never ever going to be able to even see the additional detail that raytracing could bring, compared to non-raytraced rendering techniques.

 

Note that IL2 already uses volumetric rendering for its clouds, which technically is raytracing as well, with the distinction that in volumetric shaders the raytracing is limited to the volume of the object itself and doesn't include the interface between objects.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Ray tracing is not need, what lack in current  graphic department  is immersion - you can drop dozen of booms on objects and landscape but after three minutes  the place look peaceful again...

Current landscape engine is limited in resolution or undersurface (height map, minimal scale) -trenches, foxholes are impossible ), the 2D dynamic special effects like explosions, dust , smoke,  leaks should be replaced by the space volume textures. The current one can't adjust to wind, light , shadows, they look same despite change in environment -2D sprites.

Current LOD are very poorly made and should be replaced by dynamic level of detail  on objects, building , trees and landscape. I doubt they have developed that  technology . So what to expect ?? 

Edited October 6, 2023 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

[IckyATLAS]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:39 AM, Lusekofte said:

A 5000w psu?

Most possibly yes or even more. I can handle up to 18 kW solar at peak like in June at midday, but then my playing times are very limited to a few hours. Even less as I must also have the air conditioning running at full power to compensate for the hot air from the 5 kW GPU. I must install also some powerful wind turbine if I want to play at night.

However I may run into trouble with my neighbors about the wind turbine. Finally to handle the 5090, 6090 and 7090 coming GPUs you must start considering some 100'000$ investment between enough solar power and wind turbines. The GPU price even if it hits 10'000 US$ (probably with the 7090) remains a bargain compared to CO2 compensation. But this is what it takes if you want Nvidia to power IL2 in environmental friendly conditions. Nvidia is a very expensive addiction.

 

 

[Lusekofte]

 

3 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

The GPU price even if it hits 10'000 US$ (probably with the 7090)

I never really been thinking this far ahead. The chain reaction started by considering Varjo goggles and what it meant for upgrading my pc, was as far as I went. 
When loosing interest of GB hit me hard, any investment in that regard stopped. It was my main engine for flying for a while, DCS was a in between relief. 
I am in fact really hoping this “new thing” goes in my favour. I need it to be

[IckyATLAS]

Simulating physical reality is the most computer power intensive thing that can be. In fact there will never be enough computing power available.  It is all about the question to what level of simulated reality you want to go. Where do you stop, and that is the question.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

9 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Simulating physical reality is the most computer power intensive thing that can be. In fact there will never be enough computing power available.  It is all about the question to what level of simulated reality you want to go. Where do you stop, and that is the question.

For sure pushing to far with diminishing results is not wise. If it feels good (normal )and look believable those create immersion and is good enough for me.

[AcidBath]

5000 W?  Hmm, lets see.  Here in the USA most of our typical power sockets run 12O V AC at 15 Amps max.  Watts is equal to Volts x Amp, so you'll need 5000 / 120 = 42 Amps!   Not possible in most USA homes, unless you use a 240 circuit with 30 amps of service (plus the PSU must be 240V).  Such outlets are usually only for electric dryers.  BTW, the max PSU for 120 V 15 Amp circuit is about 1800 W, but nothing else better be on that circuit and even then that is pushing things.

 

Forgetting GPU capabilities, the current engine in BoS is rather CPU limited (dilated time effect is a symptom).  Sure, yeah you can pile on the gcard eyecandy, but if you want a sky filled with say 50+ AI aircraft we'll need considerably more compute power.

Edited October 16, 2023 by AcidBath

[AEthelraedUnraed]

2 hours ago, AcidBath said:

5000 W?  Hmm, lets see.  Here in the USA most of our typical power sockets run 12O V AC at 15 Amps max.  Watts is equal to Volts x Amp, so you'll need 5000 / 120 = 42 Amps!   Not possible in most USA homes, unless you use a 240 circuit with 30 amps of service (plus the PSU must be 240V).  Such outlets are usually only for electric dryers.  BTW, the max PSU for 120 V 15 Amp circuit is about 1800 W, but nothing else better be on that circuit and even then that is pushing things.

 

Forgetting GPU capabilities, the current engine in BoS is rather CPU limited (dilated time effect is a symptom).  Sure, yeah you can pile on the gcard eyecandy, but if you want a sky filled with say 50+ AI aircraft we'll need considerably more compute power.

I don't think it was meant seriously; a play on the 5000 series and NVIDIA's high power requirements rather than literally meaning 5kW

 

Of course you are correct about 5kW not being possible; even at 230V RMS as is the case in Europe, you need enough current to easily fry the average circuit breaker.

 

You're also correct about CPU being the bottleneck in IL2. But in the unlikely case they'd introduce ray tracing, you'd see that change pretty soon

[Dragon1-1]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:01 PM, IckyATLAS said:

Finally to handle the 5090, 6090 and 7090 coming GPUs you must start considering some 100'000$ investment between enough solar power and wind turbines.

You know, if we're going that far, I'd be considering nuclear. One of those compact reactors the Japanese are working on seems like it'd a good match to a 7090.  

[AcidBath]

On 10/15/2023 at 10:34 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

I don't think it was meant seriously; a play on the 5000 series and NVIDIA's high power requirements rather than literally meaning 5kW

 

Of course you are correct about 5kW not being possible; even at 230V RMS as is the case in Europe, you need enough current to easily fry the average circuit breaker.

 

You're also correct about CPU being the bottleneck in IL2. But in the unlikely case they'd introduce ray tracing, you'd see that change pretty soon

Yeah, I knew 5kW was in jest, but I felt compelled to do a reality check so everyone would be well informed. ?

 

OK, so now it's ray tracing's turn!   First off, it'd take a DX12 port.   And if a potential future BoX DX12 implementation is anything like what's going on with the MSFS DX12 implementation, if you're running a 4K monitor or a high-ish end VR HMD, better have a gcard with 16GB of vram or more or your FPS will seriously crater due to lack of vram (and that's not even accounting for using ray tracking).

 

BTW, given a choice I'd rather have a sky filled with 50+ AI aircraft that doesn't crater the CPU. ?

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. ?

Edited October 18, 2023 by AcidBath

[jollyjack]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:39 AM, Lusekofte said:

A 5000w psu?

 

I got meself already prepared:

 

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, jollyjack said:

 

I got meself already prepared:

 

 

 

Are the diesel tank and generator under the house ? 

 

S! 

[jollyjack]

Do not need that, only when playing a mission i have to first maximize wind speed in the ME at 20 meters height to max ...

[IckyATLAS]

My PCs are now always connected with this 3 pole connector 240V 100 Amps. I am ready for the future.

Sorry we have digressed from the main topic. Let's hope Mr. Smith does not come.

Edited October 24, 2023 by IckyATLAS

[jollyjack]

He's looooooong gone, there's a new kid on the block, remember?

[MAJ_Raptor]

On 10/4/2023 at 2:49 PM, IckyATLAS said:

And who knows what will the 5090 bring ?

Likely Debt, possibly regret, and a smoking computer

[IckyATLAS]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:31 AM, jollyjack said:

He's looooooong gone, there's a new kid on the block, remember?

Yes but I liked the Mr. Smith concept. You know the guy that appears from nowhere to shoot down your thread.

[Voyager]

Personally, I would advocate they use ray tracing for AI vision checking before heavily pushing it Int eh graphics department. 

 

At this point we've got an every growing number of cards and even CPUs that support it, I'd think it would be more Ops apple to use it for the NPC vision testing than it has been in the past, and would resolve a lot of the 'sees through clouds' issues current AI pilots can have. 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Adding a gimmick you would barely notice at cost of highly increased hardware requirements? No thank you. They could push other things instead, like physics etc.